Sorry meant to say 50 psi / 27 GPM pump, not 27 GPH.
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Sorry meant to say 50 psi / 27 GPM pump, not 27 GPH.
"As far as the PVC rings, it's something that is unique to the system because as far as I know you can't buy PVC with that curvature in that size"
Took three seconds on Google on the term "Curved PVC pipe" to find three Chinese manufacturers. Also, taking a straight PVC pipe, heating it to 160F, and gently wrapping it around a 55-gallon drum is pretty simple to do.
As a hydroponic systems engineer, I have to agree with shake, there's nothing in that system to warrant the price. A multitap transformer with a selector switch can be had for $50 for 1000, 750, or 600w operation. The water pump, at 27GPM, could be found at a Home Depot for $30-50 for use in outdoor ponds or as high speed sump pumps. The sprayers, those are a dime a dozen.
http://imgur.com/et5Qfl.jpg
There's one of mine. Shed, automated controls, filters, monitoring system, everything included.
why a dim-able ballast? and a dim-able ballast means it's digital. and every digital (and most magnetic ballasts) are from China. is it UL/CE certified? i can find the galaxy brand ballast for $400 full retail.
also, i'm not a pump master, but i can't find a single water pump that list PSI. every single one i see is in gallons per hour. 27 GPM x 60 mins= 1620 GPH. wouldn't the PSI be determined by the length of the line runs and the nozzles used? agiain, not a pump expert. what is the max height the pump will run? i can find a pump at full retail for ~$150.
also, what is the height of each ring? i would assume 12" since there are 5 rings and the unit has a height of 5'. one 1000W HID bulb in the middle and centered doesn't make the unit all that efficient for the top and bottom rings at least (i would assume).
you might be better off with a dual 600W or 1000W as opposed to the dim-able ballast.
so i can get the ballast for $400, and the pump for $150 (both full retail, i know i can find them both for much cheaper, but we'll use these numbers). so that puts us at a cost of $550 for the "guts" of the rig. that leaves us with your round PVC, some tubing and some nozzles and a 20-gal res....oh and the price of putting it together. is it made in the USA? what parts are made in the USA?
speaking of a 20 gallon res, shouldn't there be a bigger one? not a dro expert either, but 50 plant sites and a 20 gallon res? just a thought.
i'm not trying to argue or say your product is crap, but i do like my purchases to be solidified in logic. you can also expect me to challenge anything posted on these forums. just the way that it is. thanks for the information.
finally, there are 10 holes in the top of each ring, couldn't you clean via those holes and not need the special connections?
-shake
well in my experience there's always someone who is an engineer of
some sort that can reverse engineer a product and find ways to make it cheaper. You can order things in china, you can spec out parts from home depot or lowes, and finally build it yourself. The bottom line is, these are not the target customers. As an example, there are people who have been buying EZ clones off the shelves for upwards of $300 dollars for a number of years now, but can you build a comparable unit for much less, yes.
This company also engineers and manufactures LEDs for horticulture, and it's the same thing with LEDs, a consumer can look at the specs on those and have it replicated for about half the cost in china even if they're specing their diodes from US or European companies. Most hydroponic/grow products cannot justify their price, they're almost always over priced, yet people are buying them more now than ever. If you can replicate something, have the time and money and know-how, then I say do it, and save a few bucks.
As far as the res size, which has come up before, 20 gallons is more than enough to provide for the unit, but it depends on the spray times, something they've figured out. And as far as the height to light coverage ratio, a 600 works fine, a 750 works better, and 2 600 watts work best. But the GPW is negatively affected after you leave the 600w mark.
There's always something to speculate on, and I'm sure all this feedback is appreciated by my buddies. But as far as the DIY aspect it concerned, I don't think that listing the ways in which you can spec, design, and build a unit for yourself is too helpful to this system as far as productivity is concerned.
Thanks for the feedback though fellas.
also khyber,
almost forgetting about the pump, could you post a link where I could find a pump matching our pump for $40-50 dollars so that I can show my friends? That is a lot cheaper than what they're getting it for.
Thanks,
A
Hello atlashomeric,
I'd like to point out the first major problem is calling this a "aeroponic" system. You can not do "true aeroponic growing" or TAG system with a pump that only delivers 50psi. What you have is "fake aeroponic growing" or FAG system :(. This is simply a hydroponic spray. Google "aeroponic" and see what it means please.
Check my album to see the construction of "fogfognugen" that is an aero/fog grow tray setup. The pump side for aero operates in the 200psi ballpark.
Or use the site seach or under my statistics to find my thread "aero/fog LED grow table". While it is completely different design, it shows what a True Aeroponic Growing system does, it creates a root zone that is a fine mist or fog.
But go ahead and market it, I'm sure many folks who don't bother to read and learn, will be sucked in for $2k.
Good luck
OM
hey oldmac,
If it isn't true aeroponics I'd think it's pretty close. I mean if anything FAG is easier to maintain than a 100 psi system I'm sure. Plus, it's not the main selling point of this system. The point is that every component works together to produce a great yield at a great GPW efficiency. It's not like someone is 'not' going to buy the unit because it doesn't have a NASA aero setup and yet still knowing that they could be getting around 3 lbs per run on a 600 watt HPS in the system. I'm a little stoned but I think that makes sense :wtf: So, to clarify, TAG or FAG, I really don't think it'll sell any better or less. That was my insight into the matter. Thanks for comments,
A
Oldmac and I have fought this battle time and again on these forums. There is a huge difference between low pressure and high pressure in terms of delivery. Personally, I have yet to be convinced that the results are any different, but then again I totally failed. I started hitech too and the more complicated it got, the more shit I threw into a big box to sit. 14 months later I still do not have a car in my garage from all the shit I bought and threw out.
I have seen a unit like this only with sliding curtains, hard solid curtains, perhaps to seal the space for c02. The only difference in their design and yours other then the round tubes, was that their unit got wider I thought at the top. Seems to me that if you dont create an inverted cone, then the plants at the bottom have a hard time competing with the plants up top. I believe that when you look at these units from the top down, you will see that each plant is spaced appropriately horizontally and not stacked on top of each other like yours will be.
No fogging system or aero system is going to benefit this design. You need to be thinking in terms of NFT systems. Think about your roots. They are going to grow along those tubes and lie flat. They wont be suspended for long and as the weeks go by the more those tubes will fill with thick long roots. Fine, no big deal, just use a NFT type system and flood the tubes with nutes to cover the roots. Make sure and slant all tubes for proper drainage no matter what you do.
2k is way over priced. No sale. Think in terms of cost of labor and price of material, not arbitrary numbers that look good on your balance sheet. 90% of the time we are talking about pricing structures equal to about 100 to 200% mark up of cost. This typically factors in labor. Don't be thinking your entitled to 200% then labor costs too. People dont care that it took you 18 months to put it together, that just makes you look all the more retarded.
You should be looking at the new designs coming out on hydro systems. All of them are bubble systems of one design or another. That's where you need to focus your energy. Take a 20 dollar tub of plastic, slap your name on it and call it the Bubble Master 2k10 then charge 45$ on eBay. China is world power number one not because of quality but because of quantity. There are too many poor people in the world to give a shit about quality these days. Besides, what do you know of quality hydroponics? Seriously? What do you know? Just because you can use a CAD program, doesn't mean you understand why certain designs are the way they are.
Finally, I'll add this. Out of all the ballot measures I saw last night only 2 of the dozens or more marijuana initiatives passed and even those were non binding state questions. What that tells me is that most of the country is still uneasy about what will happen when their 21 year old baby is gonna be allowed to purchase pot at the local 7-11. As such we are still not ready to industrialize pot production in this country and until then, a system like that does nothing more then increase potential jail time. Your customer base are people like me who openly scream bloody murder on the net but then hide in the shadows of public. Cabinet growers are your target market. The one thing I have not seen made available is a total cab grow. This would include T5's or LED's and some sort of bubble bucket system. Price it like a wal-mart paintball gun and your up and running. It wont be till that sucker goes to the field will he realize he got took! (any fucktard that thinks he can take me on the field with a wal-mart special will have to meet my friend EGO)
Keep It Simple Stupid
i like how you ask for feedback, and then when you get it you don't take it to heart. i pointed out flaw after flaw in your system and your only response was "you aren't the target market". the target market is the black market obviously. only people who sell their product with no regards for others throw money away blindly. this is a medicinal MJ site (not that all users here are), so most of us don't throw money blindly on claims alone. we like to see PROOF! and until you provide PROOF, expect someone here to challenge your claims.Quote:
Originally Posted by atlashomeric
by your own admission the ballast that you are selling it with is underpowered. if the bulb is, let's say, 12", then that is the height of ONE ring. so how do the other 4 get great light?
you also failed to answer all of my questions that i posted. i find it hard to believe that i reversed engineered it, as i haven't seen an engineering sample, only that shitty mock-up that looks like it was done by a 4 year old.
if you bothered to read my post i said i could find the pump for $150 full retail. if you are truly in mass-market production you aren't paying anything close to this for your pumps. i have personally worked in a hydroponics store. i KNOW first hand what the markup is. the only reason the sales are going up is because state after state is starting to allow for MMJ. just like the laws of supply and demand, the more of a product that is available, the lower the price. i can buy a aeroflo2, 60 site system for ~$800 and then add the 60 site extension for another ~$600. so riddle me again how this is a great deal. because it takes up 5 square feet? i'm still failing to see the value in this product.
-shake
hey headshake,
On my last few posts I wasn't trying to answer every question, instead just a couple from each person, with the majority of them being khyber's. As far as me stating that this kind of site doesn't necessarily cater to the customer base involved on these sites, it still kind of stands. If you can't find something that convinces YOU to buy it, then don't; this survey was just suppose to be an initial probe to see what the interest is in these type of units. I'm sure the design will be changed anyways before production models come out. As far as the ballast, it's built in the USA and is rated for 1000 watts. Concerning it's coverage, I know from their previous test and where they got their initial idea that one 600w was sufficient for the exact dimensions that defines this unit, and the yield was large enough to pay for this unit three to five fold depending on where you live.
As far as throwing away money is concerned then you've probably been had just like the majority of hydro growers on the high mark ups and unsubstantiated claims. I know that this company is just about to start a journaled grow with this unit that will include details and photos. They're doing this to show that the unit works before people even have to consider buying it. As far as the price, I don't know what to say, except that if you scroll back it says "tentative" as a rough prediction because final costs haven't been calculated.
It sounds like you're offended in some way too. The "shitty mock-up" was a solidworks drawing just to give people an idea of what the systems looked like. I had an actual photo posted but was instructed by the company to take it down until further notice.
Have you had a lot of work with vertical growing, because to be honest it doesn't sound like you quite understand some of the concepts involved that would be apparent if you had worked with a vertical grow. I say this with respect.
A