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Originally Posted by Zedleppelin
This is plain 100% wrong. Caregivers register with CPHE, not Revenue, just like patients. The registry is confidential. See page 47.
FFS, man....
EDIT: You know.. I'm going to correct myself partially. The registry is confidential, but it can still be verified by law enforcement. They can't browse it, but they can get a yes or a no from the health department if you present an officer with your card. Otherwise it's entirely confidential.
I don't really care to get into a debate here on this subject, so I'll only say this regarding repealing laws. I agree that we should remain vigilant advocates for every aspect of this industry. However, let's be real. It's so enormously difficult to get legislation repealed at the state level, especially with a hotbutton thing like this. In my opinion, it's just not a real option to even discuss repealing 1284 unless there is some smoking gun in some language somewhere. But even that would be removed and the rest of the legislation remain. I am not familiar though, so I could easily be wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zedleppelin
I understand that A20 only grants an affirmative defense, that you'll get charged and have to prove it at trial etc.
I am just thinking of the small scale grower who did not get married to a dispensary, who is now illegal if they are growing more than the max, around 30. That's only 15 flowering, which seems to me like it isn't enough, even for 5 patients. I smoke a couple ounces a month, and I have no idea of yield with these super awesome strains, but the 3 plants I can currently grow for myself don't seem like enough, even for me.
Is there a max on plants? Could I go to a 'friendly' doctor, say I can't smoke and need edibles? What's the max plant count? I haven't seen any info on that. Is there a link to a summary of the bill or the language itself? I guess I can search this site but I'm at work. And I'm lazy.
I guess I am looking for creative interpretations so we can agree on the max number of plants a non-profit home grow can have, given our parameters, assuming we're discussing a non-profit homegrow.
To answer your question on selling extra, if I am growing for five people like myself, that's 10 ounces a month, I don't see much extra. There are services on craigslist for trimming and butter/honey making, but you're only paying for the service if you keep the hash. I wouldn't have any desire at all to sell any extra. I assume they trim or hash the bottom third and give the rest to their patients.
Question: Is the increased plant count for MMC's only? Could a dispensary buy my superawesome topshelf as part of their 30%
Quote:
Originally Posted by HighPopalorum
I hope you're right, but this is from MMJ Attorney Jeff Gard's blog, note the last entry:
Now that it is 7/2, I want to make clear the following points:
1. You must be growing and selling only your own MMJ. The 9/1/10 certification does not act as an extension of the deadline for this requirement. Late last night I received clarification from Mr. Matt Cook that the effective date for growing and selling your own MMJ is 7/1/10. Do not jeopardize your hard work by purchasing MMJ from any one other than another established MMC, which has local approval for both its grow and retail operations. Don??t take any one??s word for their own legality ?? do your own due diligence.
2. Do not continue employing any people with drug felonies, concerning criminal histories (lots of misdemeanors, less-than felony drug convictions, etc.), people with a felony within five years of completing the sentence or anyone who has not been a Colorado resident for two years prior to 7/1/10 (see, prior blogs).
3. Do not operate your business at all unless you are locally approved and/or have applied for local approval for both the grow and retail aspects of your business. If you are a MIP, you can only continue operating if you have local approval/applied for local approval. If your MIP does not grow its own MMJ or you do not have local approval/applied for local approval for growing your own MMJ, you must have a written contract for purchase of MMJ with an established MMC. Please note that the MMC must be locally approved/applied for local approval for both the grow and retail aspects of its business in order to be able to sell 30% of its MMJ to your business. You may contract with up to 5 such businesses.
4. After 7/1/10, the MMC can only possess 2 ounces and grow 6 plants for the number of patients who have assigned the MMC as their ??primary center.? As stated in previous blogs, you must convert all patients who have assigned any of the persons associated with your business to be their primary caregiver over to the MMC as their primary center. Use the state??s Change of Primary Caregiver form (there is not MMC primary center assignment form yet available) and make sure to properly complete, notarize and mail to the Department of Health and Department of Revenue, attn. Mr. Matt Cook, certified mail/return receipt requested. Remember ?? if you have zero patients who have assigned the MMC as their primary center, you may possess zero ounces of MMJ and may cultivate zero plants.
5. You should download the newly minted Dept. of Health patient application for use in acquiring new patients or use the Change of Primary Caregiver forms to assign current patients at the time of sale of MMJ from your MMC. You do not need to continue using any ??temporary caregiver? forms (which were never legal anyway, see prior blogs). The forms may be downloaded from: Colorado: Department of Public Health and Environment, Colorado Medical Marijuana Registry.
6. Begin preparing for the 8/1/10 Department of Revenue MMC/MIP application and save a substantial amount of money for the as-yet undisclosed application and license fees.
7. Please keep careful and accurate records regarding both your cultivation and sale of MMJ. Remember, the state??s microscope for your business will be applied beginning on 7/1/10!
8. For all of the primary caregivers ?? you must only have five patients, must provide other caregiving services (see prior blogs) and charge only the cost of producing the MMJ. You must notify the Department of Revenue who the five patients are that you intend to continue as their primary caregiver and give notice that you are no longer willing to act as the primary caregiver for the remaining patients. List all of the patients accordingly. SSend the letter certified mail, return receipt requested.
Colorado Medical Marijuana Blog | Gard & Bond, L.L.C.
no. they can only buy from each other.Quote:
Question: Is the increased plant count for MMC's only? Could a dispensary buy my superawesome topshelf as part of their 30%
1284 will not be repealed in its entirety. Portions of it could be turned around by new legislation or by the courts - likely both. Before the next legislative session - we should organize to be sure our interests are represented. Patients didn't have a seat at the table for 1284. Sure, a few got to get up and talk, but who cares? All concerns were ignored. Veterans were ignored. Patients were ignored. Why? lack of organization. The folks with a money stake in the process had money to turn over to Matt Brown + Josh Stanley and COMMR. Those people don't give a fuck about patients, just dollars. If you think removing caregivers from legal sales doesn't hurt patients, you are dead fucking wrong. some patients STOPPED getting their free meds this month, many more to follow.
There is money in being a caregiver as well, just no one to organize them. Dispensaries came together and, while it wasn't a very unified or thought out message, at least sent people to the state to deliver that message.Quote:
Originally Posted by copobo
money in being a caregiver is arguable post 1284, unless the caregiver decides to work outside of the law. I don't blame the dispensaries for wanting to join forces, though I do object to the amoral biz-for-biz-sake objectives of COMMR, and that they completely lost sight of the patients.Quote:
There is money in being a caregiver as well, just no one to organize them. Dispensaries came together and, while it wasn't a very unified or thought out message, at least sent people to the state to deliver that message.
I really hope dispensaries start a trade group, without the likes of Josh and Matt at the wheel. We need a group with a more honorable reputation.
That group should have a board of directors, and a patient advocate should should be one of them, and a non-licensed caregiver should be another.
I know GM was all about this idea and still is, though I know this is a crazy time for them. There's a ton of respect still to be earned by businesses that realize - it REALLY IS all about the patients and small growers AND the licensed offsite grows and Centers. Protecting the rights of the smallest players in this movement is what will keep the market as it is today, alive. Because dispensaries came into existence in 2009, SHOULD NOT in any way, effect existing relationships with patients and caregivers - yet it has.
this is terribly fucken sad, and every legislator that voted for 1284 and every supporter of COMMR owes it to the patients in this state to do what needs to be done to remove the 5 patient limit; and to make some provision for caregivers to legally use extras to fund gratis services for their patients and to maybe even make a few dollars for their hard work.
seems pretty simple to me. I know there are many dispensaries that were afraid, and aligned with COMMR because they were scared - understood. now, let's fix it!
Listen, I think you're one of the people who have a clear idea of what needs to happen in this industry and I agree with you wholeheartedly on a lot of subjects. My only point is that I think caregivers PRE 1284 could have done more to protect themselves.
I've never heard a center say anything pro the 5 patient limit. Most of the ones that are well run have tremendous respect for independent growers and frankly depended on them to get to where they are today. I don't think they were intimidated by them as competition, either, so I'm not sure how that provision made it into 1284. But it was a mistake, and a mistake that needs to be fixed.
okay, just to be clear, I'm not calling anyone out other than COMMR + Matt + Josh
but, no, I don't think caregivers are in much of a position to speak for themselves. remember during the hearings, the DEA raided Full Spectrum Labs while they were on the stand?
Who in their right mind would stand up at one of those hearings and say Hi, I'm Joe Grower. I'm a small time caregiver in Aurora, I have 18 patients.
BOOM. doors kicked in.
Point is - we need to remember the precarious position some in our community live in, and what little regard our legislators have for the patients and caregivers. If you are standing up, stand up for yourself AND consider someone who can't stand up as you. If we let ANY rights be taken away, even if it really only effects the other guy - it effects you. when rights go away, rights go away.
Caregivers in Michigan are limited to 12 plants per patient and only allowed 5 patients - total 72 plants. They've created marketing co-ops, i.e.; they pool their patients. This gives patients assess to a greater variety of available produce and expands a caregiver's limited market.
MI caregivers are using this co-op model and stretching it into a new type of dispensary business model. CO and CA caregivers came to dispensaries from a different model, one unrestricted by a patient cap.
While "joining together" to grow is no longer allowed in CO, the law does not address caregivers joining together to market. Using the traditional agricultural co-op model, were each farmer grows their own produce and the co-op assists in marketing, CO caregivers could benefit, as could their patients.
Ag co-ops are a hugely important business model here in CO. By coming together under the co-op model it also gives small farmers a much greater voice in political matters, which they press hard.
It would be difficult for legislators to deny mmj caregivers access to this same business model.
I've assisted a few Ag co-ops. I could see that model working well for the type of org copobo suggests is needed.
I agree with you 100%. Well spoken. I think 99% of the people forgot this will all set up for the patients and caregivers and NOT the dispensary. I do think there are places for dispensary but I also think that they are the ones that has caused 99% of the problems with them popping up on every other corner. It is nothing personal about them and I do not have a problem with them but I think that is what caused all this. And you are also right they are the ones with the money so "some" of them will come out on top while the patients and caregiver will lose and like you said the caregiver and patients are the ones that are suppose to be protected. As to Cory and sensible Colorado I personally think they are full of crap. All you heard about was how wrong it was about the 5 patients and how it was going to hurt the patients and how we are going to file a civil case. Gee, I have yet to see anything on the lines and all the talk has fallen to the waiste side. But yet Cory is now fighting for the dispensary and not the caregiver or patients. I think it was more of a way to get his name out, get on tv and make people poor money into his pockets.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zedleppelin