New to this...should I be concerned?(pic)

ok I just went down and thoroughly inspected those plants. There is no white powder on the leaves. The leaves really don't have any burn marks on them except for what they came with. The leaves do though, however, seem to have color disappearing in some of them. I did notice on a few others the leaves curling up, but they are all very healthy green and kicking ass.

All of my plants are in the canna coco. I'm also using the whole canna "system" of nutes, which when explained to me are very hard to f'up feeding and over fertilizing my plants, that's why I'm spending the extra bucks on the stuff. But my plants have only been fertilized once in 9 days anyhow and watered 2 times.

Thanks everyone for your input...I greatly appreciate and respect any advise on the matter as I only want the best for my lil ones!

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Originally Posted by Jord0713

The plant are only 10 days old and were given nutes last 5 days ago. The nutes given were given according to the directions. Think I still burned them? Keep in mind this is only 3 out of 18 plants I have and the only 3 sour diesels. I have given them all the same water, nutes lighting etc. I'm bummed out I might loose this strain. :(

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You gave nutes at 5 days? That's a little early. what did the instructions call for? It's always good to start with half of what the instructions say. My bet is you are over feeding, especially since you say you have upward curled leaves on the others. Different strains need different things, so chances are you SD needs a hell of a lot LESS nutes than everything else.

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Originally Posted by Jord0713

But my plants have only been fertilized once in 9 days anyhow and watered 2 times.

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sounds like you might have poor drainage if you only need to water twice in nine days. Try adding some more perlite when you transplant. I still think you fed too early, but saying a plant has ONLY been fertilized once in 9 days should be completely normal. You only need to feed once a week with a weak solution to start.

Other possibilities:
-lack of circulation/fresh air
-Ph fluctuation

hope this helps a little, I just woke up :jointsmile:

That is great info...thanks! I just read the instructions on my nutes, and went on canna's web site and printed out a grow guide...Canna actually has you giving the plants 7.2 ml/gal of canna a and canna b, 16 ml/gal of rhizotonic at fist start of root formation...I did ALOT of reading on the canna coco line up that i'm using this morning and I am really really impressed and intrigued. Canna products are %100 organic and the produce from their products can actually be certified vegan (not that I personally care) The cana coco looks from what I have read to be a hydro medium, and can be used in pots. I am using a smart pot system, which are 5 gallon pots made of the same material as a weed barrier, so that the roots can get plenty of air. From what I have read it is almost impossible to burn your plants with nutes as long as your using the canna "system" of nutes (canna a&b, rhizotonic cannazyme, and boost), which I am, unless you let your plants run low on water, then from what I understand the nutes can burn your plans. The reason for this is that the coco and the nute system is designed to store your nutes and release them as the plants need. If you let the plant get too dry, especially with my smart pot system, the coco dries from the outside in obviously and in this process it concentrates the nutes as it dries. I think this might be my problem....possibly! I am going to step up my watering, and back down my nutes for the next few days and see what happens. Already since last night my s. diesels are looking better with the little water I splashed on them.

Does anyone else use the Canna coco and the Canna nutes? I would be curious to see someone else's opinion on the stuff. I like what I read about it,my guy at the shop loves the stuff, so I hope I get the results they are saying is possible...:)

In my experience, if there is new growth, it can be saved. I don't think it's powdered mold (especially since you say there is no white powder), i think it was just the light in the photo making it look that way.

If you have the room, let them do their thing for a few weeks....if they continue to look curled up after taking good care (watering correctly, not over nuting, good ph, air flow, etc.) then maybe pull them so you aren't wasting space and nutes. But SD is good...so i feel you on that! :jointsmile:

good luck and keep us posted!

You will need to give them nutes in coco from the very get go. However, plain water in coco is not a good idea. It could look like nute burn, while it is actually a deficiency that causes the burn, then the ph of the medium got screwed when you gave them just water.

What's the source of your water? Does it need CalMag+?

Interesting article below:



Growing on Coco: Busting the Myth
by Ralph B. Par

The Indoor Gardener Magazine Volume 3 - Issue 6

In my travels and correspondence around the world, I find there is much confusion about the use of coconut husk litter, commonly known (after aging) as coco peat or mulch, in crop production. I was first made aware of the produce as a potential additive to mineral soil or light peat mixes in the early 1980s. The thinking then was that it had too many issues to use as a straight mix, but did have some interesting side results when used as a fraction in a potting mix, or as a soil amendment to improve soil structure. It was first introduced to the Royal Botanical Society in 1862 and proved successful initially but dropped out of favor because of its inherent issues. Now it has exploded onto the scene in all manners of sue, from fraction to complete, but what are we dealing with, and why such a delay before it was accepted into the general market?

To start, the physical characteristics of coco are unique, in that it changes its physical and chemical characteristics dramatically over time. Green or newly harvested mulch is actually the dust (and broken fibers) generated by removing the fivers from the husk of a coconut. THis matter is unusable at this point. After several months of decomposition, it begins to take on some usable characteristics: it holds moisture better and releases potassium and other salts slower, down to a reasonable level. Its structure also remains intact. There is a fairly short period from this point during which the coco peat is usable in container plant production.. Ideally, the coco peat has to go further to actually work with the plant correctly, but by then much of the structure is lost and the usable time in situ is severely shortened. While later stages of coco degradation are very acceptable as a soil amendment, the are not suitable for direct use. Structural problems are, however, a small part of the issue.

Water moves from an area of low EC to an area of higher EC in an attempt to balance out or achieve equilibrium; where a semi-permeable membrane isolates the two solutions, only certain elements or molecules can cross, typically a water molecule or smaller (selectively permeable), through the process of osmosis (Fig A). Membrane can also be selectively permeable, allowing certain sizes of particles to pass while restricting others. In typical soils and container mixes, fertilized at recommended levels, the EC of the root zone moisture (which includes nutrients [salts]) is lower than the internal EC of the root cells, allowing water to move, or diffuse, across the barrier membranes. As the root zone's EC reaches the EC levels of the plant, water movement slows and eventually halts. Unfortunately, it does not stop there and can move the other way, but not all. To compensate and get the water in the seawater solution (a solution of water plus many different salts) to move through the plant, the palm concentrates salts in the areas between the cell walls, known as interstitial spaces. This effectively shows an increase in the internal EC while allowing the actual cells to function normally. The process of harvesting the fivers also increases EC levels, because the coconut husks are first soaked in seawater (the most abundant water supply near where coconuts grow), which imparts its salts into every pore of the coconut material. When decomposition occurs, these salts come out in very high amounts, especially potassium, the most prevalent element found as an ion (salt).

All usable nutrients become available to the plant's internal processes as ions, or charged atoms or functional groups like nitrate. Ions affect each other. In fact, they combine in a controlled fashion, in a solution with other ions and no controls, they still combine or associate with other ions of opposite charge. They also affect the availability of each other as similar charges. This is known as antagonism, where one element in a large amount will decrease availability of another in a smaller amount. In this case, as the concentration of potassium increases, the availability of both calcium and magnesium decreases. It is more commonly known as locking out. When combined with the effects of pH and temperature, precipitation of these salts can occur. The effect works the other way. When calcium increases, potassium availability decreases. Additionally, potassium has the ability to almost move at will throughout a plant, as it is mostly unregulated, a characteristic all plants have adapted by harnessing these ions to do work as they move around.

This is all well and good, but how does that affect the use of coconut peat/mulch with plants? As the coco decomposes, it "gives off" salts that increase the EC of the medium, which will result in burning and imbalances in calcium/magnesium and potassium ratios; the "greener" the coco, the worse the problem. About the time this "give off" slows enough to really grow a crop in, the structure has the characteristic of muck peat and requires amendments like perlite, sand, pebbles or other large particles added to it to give the medium air. Also, the state of decomposition is at its highest, so what is left will not last long, and can easily be washed out of the container. We know that if the level of salts AND the ratio of these salts could be controlled at an earlier stage, we would have the advantage of good physical structure and proper nutrient balance.

Coconut peat has some wonderful physical properties that greatly benefit plant growth. To begin, it is renewable - no stripping of nature's resources. It makes use of the final product left over from cultivating and harvesting the much-prized nut. At the right point in its decomposition, coco peat can be used as a stand-alone medium with no need to add perlite or other persistent amendments. Coco peat itself is fairly pH-stable and buffers the pH well, in a very acceptable range for plant growth. WHile they are fairly solid and big early on, once the peat particles are treated and decomposed to a certain point, they are like sponges with micro-pores that hold water, away form the plant roots but available to replenish the larger pores the plant root can access. This effectively limits excess water while retaining water reserves. These particles hold onto no ions, only what may fill and dry on the particles themselves. So as long as the medium is moist , nutrients are available. At the proper point of decomposition, the particles form the perfect combination of air-to-water, because of the different fractions now present, which can actually mean more air space to water pace, with the micro-pores holding a reserve of water, giving a nice water buffer. Unlike peat moss, it has no oil on its surface, so wetting the particle is never an issue. The key in all this is to decompose the particle to the perfect point. The problem is still that the rate of salt release remains high at this perfect point.

Controlling the decomposition process, adding the correct nutrient buffer to adjust the ratio, feeding the plants the proper ratio of nutrients to offset the coco's "giving off" will produce the perfect growing conditions. When the medium is not taken into account, the results can be disastrous. Even when fed correctly, and the correct "buffer" of nutrient ratio set up, just one watering with plain water will wreck the buffer, sending the plant and medium into shock and rapidly escalating the potassium level. Consequently, plants that do not have enough of some ions like calcium (there are several) due to underfeeding or washing out will show a deficiency in these and other elements. Meanwhile, potassium builds up the plant tissue, ultimately leading to margin burning on the leaf surface, mostly at the tip. The first thing the inexperienced grower assumes is that he is overfeeding and has salt issues. He will decrease the feed concentration and leach the medium. This, of course, magnifies the problem and makes it worse. The key to proper coco growing is to use the right feed to balance the products the coco gives off. Think not only about availability, but about the ratio of one mineral to another as well. It is also important to water correctly.

Coco peat holds about 33% more moisture then similar grades of peat-based mediums if its structure is sound. Since a great amount of this is tucked away in the micro-pores, the medium can look dry but still be plenty wet. The same rules apply here as in soil or soilless mixes: water when the container loses 50% of the maximum water it will hold against gravity (immediately after drainage of a newly watered container). This is done by weight and yes, it does change with time, root mass, humidity, temperature and grower temperament (thumb on scale syndrome).

By controlling the decomposition and particle size closely, there is no need for anything to increase drainage, like perlite, and this removes a disposal concern. Even more air space can be achieved by increasing the fraction of coco fibers and husks. This results in a totally renewable and biodegradable medium that resists compaction. Finally, the pH of the medium, when buffered and controlled, remains constant pretty much throughout its useful life. The medium sets its pH at between 5.2 and 6.2, a perfect range, and will hold it there, unlike peat-based products that try to go back to a pH of 4.5 or less within three months of being planted. By using the correct age of coco with the right porosity, coco potting medium should be able to work through almost a year's worth of crops before being changed. The pH stays correct and only the structure changes, limiting the useful period.

So, we see that by controlling the aging process, using the correct ratio of nutrients, using the correct composition of nutrients, and pre-buffering the coco peat, growers can anticipate getting the perfect medium, correctly balanced, correctly composed, with good porosity, a water buffer, and a lot less headaches then peat-based soilless mix products. That is great for a start, but to complete a crop, it is critical that the correct nutrients be used as well. Consider coco as needing to be "fed" along with the plants. Once the medium establishes a buffer, which it will do based on the nutrients it sees, right or wrong, the grower can wipe this out by applying plain water to the medium. The medium hangs on to nothing and will readily flush away its nutrients; then the plant will suffer until the buffer is restored. Always use fertilizer when you water coco that a plant is actively growing in, at least at about EC = 0.6mS/cm3. This will hold the balance or ratio of the nutrients to each other and insure that the plant gets exactly what it needs.

Thanks for all your input...I am really excited and I REALLY want my Diesels to work out as well ;) Im' going to adjust my watering schedule and nute schedule a little and let it ride for a bit. I have ample air flow, my room temp fluctuates between 77-79 degrees so that remains pretty constant as well as my %35 humidity. Really all I can think to be going wrong here is either lack of water, possible burning due to lack of water or plant disease that I would have no idea about since this my first time around the block. I do have new growth happening so cross your fingers for my S. Diesels and if anyone has any suggestions I am way open to them! :)

You gotta let the plants do some work on their own before you start hitting them with nutes. If they are only 10 days I wouldn't recommend ANY nutes just water but if you can't fight the urge then use 1/4 strength.

I think above posters are right about the nute burn. Stems are bright red, leaves look faded and brittle and the fact that its a new strain to you makes me think its an over nute. I just started a whole bunch of different strains of skunk as well as acouple different haze and each of them has their own personality. Some LOVE the nutes, others don't, some even take more water then others? Its crazy, they are alive :thumbsup:

bigtopsfinn, thanks for that article...that is very very helpful! So from what I understand ALWAYS use the canna nutes with every water, water way more than I am. I probably should repot my Diesels as I made the mistake of flushing, what do you think? Should I wait until they are out of stress, or do it right away?

Jtsik330, thanks for your post. after reading more on canna coco, everything I have seen says it is a horrible idea to water with out the nutes at any stage because it will destroy the integrity of the coco and wash away some properties that is has going on that help the plants. I have read that watering plants in the canna coco with out the nutes often results in the plants getting burned much like nute burn. I don't know this first hand as this is my first crop with the stuff, but it kind of makes sense after reading up on it. I normally and I do agree with you on the plants should do a bit of the work themselves, that is why I have only feed them nutes once, but what do I know? lol I curious to here if anyone has grown in the stuff before and what their experience was like?

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Originally Posted by Jord0713

bigtopsfinn, thanks for that article...that is very very helpful! So from what I understand ALWAYS use the canna nutes with every water, water way more than I am. I probably should repot my Diesels as I made the mistake of flushing, what do you think? Should I wait until they are out of stress, or do it right away?

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I don't know about transplanting... might cause more stress. I'd put them far away from the lights, give them a flush with with 1/4 strength nutes, and check ph going in and out.

If you are using R/O or distilled water, you will need CalMag+... this is just a guess (since you haven't mentioned your source water), but like it said in the article, a lack of Calcium may cause the problems you are seeing:

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Consequently, plants that do not have enough of some ions like calcium (there are several) due to underfeeding or washing out will show a deficiency in these and other elements. Meanwhile, potassium builds up the plant tissue, ultimately leading to margin burning on the leaf surface, mostly at the tip.

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For the record: I have no first hand experience growing in coco, but from some of the responses it seems that most (if not all) here don't either. I'm just making my best guesses based on what I read. Unfortunately this site doesn't have a lot of info regarding growing in coco... Hopefully a coco grower can step in and give some better advice.

In the meantime, fill in the troubleshooting form at the top of this section and copy and paste it here. It'll avoid any further guessing :thumbsup: