screw the constitution, screw the 2nd admendment

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Originally Posted by headshake

i'm not referring to our economy per se, i'm referring to the fact capitalism is our government.

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i can see where you might be a bit confused. after decades of creeping socialism within the circles of government, it's difficult to tell where economy ends and government begins. the heart of both capitalism and conservative thought is that there is a definite line between economic considerations and the powers of government, a line that government should only cross when business inflicts damage on others. this is the same line that exists (or should exist) between government and the private lives of its citizens.

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if you believe our economy is egalitarian then you are sadly mistaken. there might be the false pretense of egalitarianism, but that's not the way it is.

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no, our economy is far from egalitarian. the market was long ago infected by the disease of a spreading bureaucracy. instead of protecting citizens from the abuse of business, our government has decided to micromanage the affairs of business as a preventative measure to assure that abuses cannot take place. this has shown itself to do nothing more than place the ability to abuse in the very hands of those who have the most power to do so, the government itself. once again you have confused the concept of capitalism with the bastardized version practiced under the control of a corrupt bureaucracy.

as pure concept, capitalism places control of the means of production in the hands of the people themselves. how much more egalitarian can you get? with a government that is willing to stay within its roll of "protector of the rights of the people", enforcing those laws that keep us from being abused by the powerful, it is completely possible for such a concept to thrive and for all the people to prosper if they are willing to labor and take the needed risks. though failure is undoubtedly a part of that equation, it is also a necessary part of life.

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america is controlled by the large corporations. the large corporations are the ones the make the laws of our country. lobbying is legal vote buying.

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now we come to the part of the sermon where we must ask, " where does the sin lie?" does the blame lie with a businessman who purchases a product freely offered or with the political animals who steal under the color of law the power of their constituents and package it for sale? the laws are enacted not by corporations, but by the very representatives you elected. you have placed men in power who are so corrupt that they can be easily swayed by a few pieces of silver.

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.....harassing people over rights which they have, that are "inalienable" is purely capitalistic. it might only be an underlying tone here, but it's there. where do you think the money comes from to pay the mayor of shreveport? why else would this be an issue?

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though i'm sure that worthy mayor might well have been elected thanks to the funding of businesses seeking favor, his paycheck consists of taxes wrung from the citizens.

once again you seem to confuse the meaning of capitalism. consider the term "totalitarian" and you might be closer to the truth.

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.....it's only human nature to consolidate what power?

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one should never confuse what is truly important with the pedestrian concerns of the marketplace. money is merely a representation of one form of power. the power to do and say what you please, the power to keep hold of your own possessions, the power to move freely and believe what you will; these are of far more import than materialistic wealth. no one seems to value these freedoms (after all, they're free. it's right there in the name.) until they are gone.

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.....the bottom line is that everything that happens in this country happens over money. so the very problem with the system is capitalism.

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money, money, money, money. ya'll are so concerned with money. in this richest country on earth, where even the poor have a better life than all but the richest of many nations, all you can see are the dollars and cents. the fact that capitalism has enabled us to accumulate such wealth seems to have totally escaped you. all that most of you can see is what you don't have, but feel entitled to. do you honestly believe that greed is a monster created by capitalism alone?

i'm not a wealthy man and i'll probably work until the day i die, but i'd rather have freedom than baubles. i'd rather not be told by the all powerful state how far i may rise and how much i can accumulate. i'd rather have the freedom to fail than the mediocrity of an enforced comfortable poverty. a free market allows such a life. all else is slavery.

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Originally Posted by yokinazu

capitalism is not evil. socialism is not evil. no form of gov't in itself is evil.

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this is not a matter of good and evil, but of which system is more prone to corruption. no corporation has an army and a police force (unless it is allowed such by a corrupt government), but these are the tools of the state. no business has the ability to enact law (unless it is allowed such by a corrupt government), but these arbitrary rules are how the state bends us to its will. no businessman has the power to send a man off to prison for the rest of his life (unless he is allowed such by a corrupt government), but this is the threat we live under if we refuse the whims of the state.

now tell me, which system has the greater capacity for evil.

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.....the reason i started this was because i heard that this mayor actually said screw the constitution, screw the second amendment.

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i'm sure it was nothing more than a momentary lapse into honesty. the constitution is a document meant to protect the people from the abuses of government and the bureaucrats job is to gather power by any means from those below him. i'm sure you can see that it is in the best interests of such political animals to shred the constitution whenever possible.

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Originally Posted by Markass

actually the fourth is unreasonable search and seizure, you're thinking of the fifth which pretains to no self incrimination

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Its applicable in both instances. The right to not incriminate one's self is akin to a search. One concerns property and the other is of the individual themselves. The Founders were wise enought to differentiate so as to not confuse the courts who now days cannot see the line of demarcation. Their overbearingness and obtuseness has blurred and distorted the original contexts!! :D

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Originally Posted by gypski

Its applicable in both instances. The right to not incriminate one's self is akin to a search. One concerns property and the other is of the individual themselves. The Founders were wise enought to differentiate so as to not confuse the courts who now days cannot see the line of demarcation. Their overbearingness and obtuseness has blurred and distorted the original contexts!! :D

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To clarify, you as a person are, in the true sense private property, no different then a piece of ground and so is what is on your person. And, as such, they can search your possessions with probable cause. The other concerns the individual and what is in your mind, the essence of the individual. It allows you to remain silent, and Maranda used to apply in both instances until its been shredded by the Reagun/Bush I SCOTUS appointments. :D

Dispicable! What is this nation coming to? We are supposed to be the land of the free. We are suppose to have constitutionally protected rights. How much longer before they take our privacy away from us, oh wait... they did that already. I'm telling you, they're watching, listening, and soon we won't have any rights left. Centainly not what our fore fathers had in mind. I'm just glad that my state still believes in the peoples' rights, don't think I'll ever leave.

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Originally Posted by slowspeed

Despicable! What is this nation coming to? We are supposed to be the land of the free. We are suppose to have constitutionally protected rights.

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it would appear that our problems stem not from the protection of our rights, but from the definitions of those rights. government redefines our rights as individuals to support its agenda and we, in our greed, go along with the scapegoating of any group that does not include our avaricious little selves. instead of protecting the rights of the individual (one of government's foremost responsibilities), our representatives are interested only in furthering their own careers under the guise of promoting the dictatorship of the proletariat. hidden behind the pseudo-marxist rhetoric of an equitable distribution of wealth lies the true aim of our ruling class, the development of a totalitarian state where only those with political clout are allowed to rise to their true potential. all others are to be fitted into a socially acceptable mold, brought down to live in comfortable poverty while the fruits of their labors support an ever growing bureaucracy. we are numbed by the divisions of right and left, republican and democrat, liberal and conservative. we fight amongst ourselves for the scraps while political animals grow fat at our expense. they sell our freedom to the highest bidder and then hold out the buyers as the culprits. lulled by the lie of the ballot box, we fool ourselves into believing that the people have any say over the decisions of government. while we should be traveling a road toward ever more freedom, we forge our own chains and enslave ourselves to those we choose to serve us.

please excuse the soap box, but i have become more and more disillusioned of late. i look around and see a country built on the concepts of freedom becoming peopled with sheep and puling children. instead of striving to increase our freedoms, we willingly shackle ourselves and each other to the service of masters that we ourselves have created. we whine that we have not yet reached perfection, then take another step away from our goal. each time we restrict others for our own profit, we limit our own hopes to reach our full potential. if we hope to achieve success, we must be willing to endure failure and learn from it.

Well... in my country citizens arent even allowed to own firearms... and even if the pigs (aka cops) beat you (unlawfully of course) for whatever reason (or no reason at all) and you denounce them, the chances they get even a frown is very small... i hope knowing this be a consolation for you... :(

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Originally Posted by delusionsofNORMALity

it would appear that our problems stem not from the protection of our rights, but from the definitions of those rights. government redefines our rights as individuals to support its agenda and we, in our greed, go along with the scapegoating of any group that does not include our avaricious little selves. instead of protecting the rights of the individual (one of government's foremost responsibilities), our representatives are interested only in furthering their own careers under the guise of promoting the dictatorship of the proletariat. hidden behind the pseudo-marxist rhetoric of an equitable distribution of wealth lies the true aim of our ruling class, the development of a totalitarian state where only those with political clout are allowed to rise to their true potential. all others are to be fitted into a socially acceptable mold, brought down to live in comfortable poverty while the fruits of their labors support an ever growing bureaucracy. we are numbed by the divisions of right and left, republican and democrat, liberal and conservative. we fight amongst ourselves for the scraps while political animals grow fat at our expense. they sell our freedom to the highest bidder and then hold out the buyers as the culprits. lulled by the lie of the ballot box, we fool ourselves into believing that the people have any say over the decisions of government. while we should be traveling a road toward ever more freedom, we forge our own chains and enslave ourselves to those we choose to serve us.

please excuse the soap box, but i have become more and more disillusioned of late. i look around and see a country built on the concepts of freedom becoming peopled with sheep and puling children. instead of striving to increase our freedoms, we willingly shackle ourselves and each other to the service of masters that we ourselves have created. we whine that we have not yet reached perfection, then take another step away from our goal. each time we restrict others for our own profit, we limit our own hopes to reach our full potential. if we hope to achieve success, we must be willing to endure failure and learn from it.

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US drug CZAR is just one person who makes policy for all. If he says it's bad bust them and screw your rights. As a matter of fact if you live in the US you have no rights except to bleed. Point, the cops and there are many different branches of law enforcement can and do on a regular basis usurp our rights just by saying ( I SMALL SOMETHING ) end of freedom.

Gun Confiscation is Beginning--Senate Bill SB-2099
HR45 Gun Owners Watch Out
Concerning the Blair-Holt proposed legislation: Senate Bill SB-2099
will require us to put on our 2009 1040 federal tax form all guns that
you have or own. It may require fingerprints and a tax of $50 per gun.

In November, our lying president promised he was not going after our
Second Amendment rights. This bill was introduced on Feb. 24. This bill
will become public knowledge 30 days after it is voted into law. This is
an amendment to the Internal Revenue Act of 1986. This means that the
Finance Committee can pass this without the Senate voting on it at all.
The full text of the proposed amendment is on the U.S. Senate homepage,
U.S. Senate <http://www.senate.gov/> You can find the bill by doing a search by the
bill number, SB-2099.

You know who to call; I strongly suggest you do. Please send a copy of
this e-mail to every gun owner you know.

Text of H.R.45 as Introduced in House: Blair Holt's Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009 - U.S.... OpenCongress


Congress is now starting on the firearms confiscation bill. If it
passes, gun owners will become criminals if you don't fully comply.
It has started.

Very Important for you to be aware of a new bill HR 45 introduced into
the House. This is the Blair Holt Firearm Licensing & Record of Sale
Act of 2009.

Even gun shop owners didn't know about this because the government is
trying to fly it under the radar.

To find out about this - go to any government website and type in HR 45
or Google HR 45 Blair Holt Firearm Licensing & Record of Sales Act of
2009. You will get all the information.

Basically this would make it illegal to own a firearm - any rifle with
a clip or ANY pistol unless:
It is registered -You are fingerprinted -You supply a current Driver's
License -You supply yourSocial Security # -You will submit to a
physical & mental evaluation at any time of their choosing -Each
update change or ownership through private or public sale must be
reported and costs $25 - Failure to do so you automatically lose the
right to own a firearm and are subject up to a year in jail. -There is
a child provision clause on page 16 section 305 stating a child-access
provision. Gun must be locked and inaccessible to any child under 18.
-They would have the right to come and inspect that you are storing
your gun safely away from accessibility to children and fine is
punishable for up to 5 yrs. in prison.

If you think this is a joke - go to the website and take your pick of
many options to read this. It is long and lengthy. But, more and more
people are becoming aware of this. Pass the word along. Any hunters in
your family pass this along.

This is just a "termite" approach to complete confiscation of guns and
disarming of our society to the point we have no defense - chip away a
little here and there until the goal is accomplished before anyone
realizes it.

This is one to act on whether you own a gun or not.
If you take my gun, only the criminal will have one to use against me.
HR 45 only makes me/us less safe.

Search Results - THOMAS (Library of Congress)

H.R.45: Blair Holt's Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009 - U.S. Congress - OpenCongress

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-45

Please.. copy and send this out to EVERYONE in the USA, whether you support
the Right to Bear Arms or not. YOUR rights are next. Government is taking away our
right to choose, as well as the right to defend ourselves from intruders.

CALL YOUR SENATOR

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by McDanger

Gun Confiscation is Beginning--Senate Bill SB-2099
HR45 Gun Owners Watch Out
Concerning the Blair-Holt proposed legislation: Senate Bill SB-2099
will require us to put on our 2009 1040 federal tax form all guns that
you have or own. It may require fingerprints and a tax of $50 per gun.

In November, our lying president promised he was not going after our
Second Amendment rights. This bill was introduced on Feb. 24. This bill
will become public knowledge 30 days after it is voted into law. This is
an amendment to the Internal Revenue Act of 1986. This means that the
Finance Committee can pass this without the Senate voting on it at all.
The full text of the proposed amendment is on the U.S. Senate homepage,
U.S. Senate <http://www.senate.gov/> You can find the bill by doing a search by the
bill number, SB-2099.

You know who to call; I strongly suggest you do. Please send a copy of
this e-mail to every gun owner you know.

Text of H.R.45 as Introduced in House: Blair Holt's Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009 - U.S.... OpenCongress


Congress is now starting on the firearms confiscation bill. If it
passes, gun owners will become criminals if you don't fully comply.
It has started.

Very Important for you to be aware of a new bill HR 45 introduced into
the House. This is the Blair Holt Firearm Licensing & Record of Sale
Act of 2009.

Even gun shop owners didn't know about this because the government is
trying to fly it under the radar.

To find out about this - go to any government website and type in HR 45
or Google HR 45 Blair Holt Firearm Licensing & Record of Sales Act of
2009. You will get all the information.

Basically this would make it illegal to own a firearm - any rifle with
a clip or ANY pistol unless:
It is registered -You are fingerprinted -You supply a current Driver's
License -You supply yourSocial Security # -You will submit to a
physical & mental evaluation at any time of their choosing -Each
update change or ownership through private or public sale must be
reported and costs $25 - Failure to do so you automatically lose the
right to own a firearm and are subject up to a year in jail. -There is
a child provision clause on page 16 section 305 stating a child-access
provision. Gun must be locked and inaccessible to any child under 18.
-They would have the right to come and inspect that you are storing
your gun safely away from accessibility to children and fine is
punishable for up to 5 yrs. in prison.

If you think this is a joke - go to the website and take your pick of
many options to read this. It is long and lengthy. But, more and more
people are becoming aware of this. Pass the word along. Any hunters in
your family pass this along.

This is just a "termite" approach to complete confiscation of guns and
disarming of our society to the point we have no defense - chip away a
little here and there until the goal is accomplished before anyone
realizes it.

This is one to act on whether you own a gun or not.
If you take my gun, only the criminal will have one to use against me.
HR 45 only makes me/us less safe.

Search Results - THOMAS (Library of Congress)

H.R.45: Blair Holt's Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009 - U.S. Congress - OpenCongress

H.R. 45: Blair Holt's Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009 (GovTrack.us)

Please.. copy and send this out to EVERYONE in the USA, whether you support
the Right to Bear Arms or not. YOUR rights are next. Government is taking away our
right to choose, as well as the right to defend ourselves from intruders.

CALL YOUR SENATOR

---

Do you have any information verifying this bill is even doing anything?? The status of the bill at thomas is "Latest Major Action: 2/9/2009 Referred to House subcommittee. Status: Referred to the Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism, and Homeland Security. "

It is still in committee as far as I know. This is when a call to your Rep. does the most good.