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you can't bring a knife to a gun fight, these people will blow up your mother and your daughter
simply because they don't believe in Allah, and then they'll cut your friggin' head off.
they don't play by the same rules as we do, hell, they don't have any rules!
i hope they don't detonate a nuke here in America before people like you start to
get it.
This really smacks of ignorance and xenophobia.Quote:
Originally Posted by justanotherbozo
Xenophobia is an unreasonable fear of foreigners. I think the killing of 2,000 or so American citizens makes the fear reasonable.Quote:
Originally Posted by psychocat
What exactly was wrong with his statement? I failed to see where he said Muslims, he simply said terrorists which is simply a portion of the Muslim population.
these people will blow up your mother and your daughter
simply because they don't believe in Allah
That does give a very clear indication of the object of his post.
I don't know of too many Christians that praise Allah .
Perhaps xenophobia was the wrong choice of word since his fears are in fact more to do with religion.
However , neither his post nor yours is really on topic.
How it is supposed to relate to the question of wether torture is okay as long as it's us doing the torturing is beyond me but I'm sure he will enlighten us.
BTW
I can be a pedant too
Could you please hilight the point in his post where he mentions "terrorists", he didn't, he used the very vague "these people".
There you go psyco, he mentioned it in his first reply to the OP.Quote:
Originally Posted by justanotherbozo
Seeing as these extremist seem to be fighting a holy war, is statement was not at all off base. And yes, they have already blown up Americans mothers, daughters, sons, moms wives, etc as well as many other nationalities both on 9/11 and other terrorist attacks around the world. Their entire hatred for Western Civilization is based on their extreme religious views. Hell, their motivation is that Allah has promised them nearly 100 virgins if they sacrifice their life in a terrorist attack.Quote:
these people will blow up your mother and your daughter
simply because they don't believe in Allah
That does give a very clear indication of the object of his post.
I don't know of too many Christians that praise Allah .
Perhaps xenophobia was the wrong choice of word since his fears are in fact more to do with religion.
How exactly is this not relevant? These are the people who were tortured under the Bush administration, these are our enemies. How the fuck is it not important to the topic?
We aren't going over their kidnapping innocent children and water boarding them, these are terrorists, enemy combatants, most of which have been exiled from their native country meaning they are no longer protected under the Geneva Convention.
You assume an awful lot.
You assume they are guilty.
You assume they were caught in combat
You assume they are terrorists.
Once more I will ask "How does that equate with the very American edict of innocent until proven guilty" ?
If a member of your own family was accused of a crime would you advocate the use of torture ?
How can you trust any information given under those conditions ?
Are you not trying to blur the lines by saying it's okay to torture certain people but not others ?
Where do you draw the line ?
Should waterboarding be used in all investigations , hell why not go back to the old days of policing and get out the rubber hoses.
Do you understand that you cannot denounce an act that you yourself are commiting , regardless of who the victim is ?
We are talking about extreme circumstances in a time of war. Exceptions are easily made in times of war.
There may be a few low level enemy combatants mistaken for high level officers who were tortured, that is simply an unfortunate event. Wars are nasty and they will never be completely civilized.
I'm not saying all information gained from torture is legitimate, however, some of it surely is. Innocent until proven guilty deals with American courts, it isn't required to carry over to war tribunals and war prisoners.
They aren't protected by our laws and Constitution.
If ,as you claim they are prisoners of war then surely that is a case for the Geneva Convention ?
Please clarify this for me.
How can someone claim the moral high ground and denounce a practice that they themselves use ? Isn't that a tad contradictory ?
Here is a site with the text of the Geneva Convention in regard to war prisoners.
The prisoners we are talking about here are not protected under the Geneva Convention.Quote:
"Persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including members of armed forces who have laid down their arms and those placed hors de combat by sickness, wounds, detention, or any other cause, shall in all circumstances be treated humanely, without any adverse distinction founded on race, color, religion or faith, sex, birth or wealth, or any other similar criteria."
It also states it applies to:
"Persons belonging to one of the following categories, who have fallen into the power of the enemy:
- Members of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict as well as members of militias or volunteer corps forming part of such armed forces.
- Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, belonging to a Party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfill the following conditions:
- That of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;
- That of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance;
- That of carrying arms openly;
- That of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.
I apologize to you psycho for giving you negative rep for the xenophobia comment especially since the dude hasn't responded to defend himself. I assumed he was talking about the Muslim extremist since he mentioned terrorists in his first post, however, he knows for sure, I'm just making an assumption. :hippy:
The inappropriate use of strong words like xenophobia is simply a huge pet peeve of mine.