Hydroponics and Procyon 100 LEDS
Quote:
Originally Posted by headshake
well if you are testing anything like in the pictures on the website the MH in the pics is way too high!
think that could be part of the problem?
-shake
Hmm, a 400W is supposed to cover a 4' x 4' area, yet it's confined in a 15" x 15" space, lined in mylar on 3 sides. The LED was 10" above the aero system, while the MH was 24" above. If it were any closer, the plants would suffer greatly or die from heat stress. The MH is 14" higher than the LED, and has almost 70% more wattage, as well as a much greater potential to carry light energy over long distances vs LED. I've known plenty of growers who only use HID, and most of them run between 12" and 24" from their plants, so I don't see the height as an issue.
Bloom will begin in a few days, and I will be removing the plants from the MH all together. I will be installing glass and ventilation to the MH, and taking one of the plants from LED, to place under it. Then I'll start bloom, side-by-side with the same sized plants, to give a pro comparison. The MH will be able to go lower with ventilation and glass. Anyhow, it takes time, but the switch will happen soon.
Hydroponics and Procyon 100 LEDS
Quote:
Originally Posted by LEDGirl
The Procyon 100 has only 635nm and 450nm, which is nowhere near enough spectral diversity to take a plant from veg to bloom, with good results. From what I've heard on many other forums, these lights make good veg lights or supplemental lights, but they certainly don't compare to a 400W in bloom.
If you want to get good grow results using LED's, you need to find a light that has the correct spectrum for marijuana. Weed uses 439nm, 469nm, 642nm, and 667nm for photosynthesis and 439nm, 483nm for carotenoids. You'll want a light that hits all of these, and one that does so with a narrow viewing angle. Most every product on the market uses a wide viewing angle (120 degree) or a varying angle (120 degree and 90 degree). If you want to make the most out of your grow with LED, and get good penetration, you need a 60 degree LED.
I am willing to guess you have not spent anytime reading LED items on this board. Try looking at WiskeyTango's Procyon100 grow logs.
I've had 2 Procyon's and I can tell you for a fact they will grow a plant from veg to bloom, even with just 2 color LEDs. While LED's have narrow wavelenghts, they are not that narrow. An example is the red Cree's @ 635nm; if you look at a spectral graph you'll see that while it's peak output is 635the output is a bell curve that is slighly asymetrical. It contains light up to and including 660nm (the actual peak absorbtion for photosynthesis). I happen to use the 635nm Cree's in a homemade hybred LED light that contains 240 of them, driven at 650ma/ea for 1.75 watts each for a total of 420 watts of LED. For blue and some other wavelenghts there is 8 T5s of 2' driven to VHO levels of 40 watts each for a total of 320 watts of T5. Together that's 740 watts total that out preform the 1 kw HPS it replaced.
While we are at this, I will mention to you I have also been using 2 TI Pro-Blooms 600s for the past year. They have the BEST full spectrum light output of any LED on the market. Those 2 TIs together will better a 1 kw HPS, I know cause I've done side by side grows using both.
As to your suggested viewing angles....well even 60 degrees is too wide for most grow light applications, but that's another story.
Hydroponics and Procyon 100 LEDS
Quote:
Originally Posted by dichlorvos
So where might someone get lights like that? I know the haight led has more spectrum than the Procyon, but those are the only available lights I've really concidered, though I've heard first hand that the supernova is good. I really want to use LEDs on a 3x3 ebb and flow, but gotta go mh/hps fer now. I'm just waiting for the right led. I may use hps over one tray next to another 3x3 with led down the road, as an experiment.
Check out Theroreme Innovation's ProBloom 600, at 330 watts it will cover 3'x3' nicely. Just keep in mind that these, and other LED grow lights work best growing SOG style plants (2' tall max) since LEDs lack the penertration of a HID light.
Since the shill's are doing this, mods please forgive me, you can find them here: GROW REVOLUTION Your online source for LED Grow Light Systems.
:)
Hydroponics and Procyon 100 LEDS
Quote:
Originally Posted by LEDGirl
Hmm, a 400W is supposed to cover a 4' x 4' area, yet it's confined in a 15" x 15" space, lined in mylar on 3 sides. The LED was 10" above the aero system, while the MH was 24" above. If it were any closer, the plants would suffer greatly or die from heat stress. The MH is 14" higher than the LED, and has almost 70% more wattage, as well as a much greater potential to carry light energy over long distances vs LED. I've known plenty of growers who only use HID, and most of them run between 12" and 24" from their plants, so I don't see the height as an issue.
well seeing as you've been gardening for years, which at your peak you were running 4000W you should know that cooling is damn near just as important as lighting in the first place. if you shove a 400W light into a 15" x 15" area with no cooling, then hell yes you are going to have problems that include slow growth and discoloration due to heat damage and heat stress.
and since your site is "different" than all the others out there, and you start at "square one" for all of us not so smart types, you would know that light is governed by the inverse square law that states "The intensity of light observed from a source of constant intrinsic luminosity falls off as the square of the distance from the object."
if one were to double the distance to a light source the observed intensity is decreased to (1/2)2 = 1/4 of its original value.
or in layman's terms, light intensity is directly,squarely proportional to the distance at which said light is placed from a receptor of light, such as, oh, let's say a leaf.
so, with that being said, the placement of your HID is TOTALLY relevant to the performance of your plants.
care to differ?
by the way, you will notice that for the most part i have no ego. i have only been growing since last October (not quite long enough to develop this ego you speak of). if you go do some research you will notice that i take pride in SHARING correct information, giving positive feedback and helping all those that are willing to accept it. i also like to push the envelope and dabble it things that are well over my head. but never, not once have i pushed something down someones throat. if you want to do it right then start a grow log. post pictures of YOUR side by side comparisons. don't post pics of others grows and say they came from your products.
and frankly, i could care less about those other sites you are involved with. this is my HOME! these are MY people. and i'm not gonna let them get ripped off or get bum advice by somebody trying to make a quick buck. if your product is as good as you say it is then you won't need to say anything!
like i said, send me some units and i'd be more than happy to do some grow logs and INDEPENDENT testing! as i'm sure many others on this site would do. and those people will be the first ones to go to bat for you and your products should they live up to the hype!
i believe that puts the ball in YOUR court!
not to mention, most people that adapt to technology early DO their own research. don't think you're the only one that can send emails to china and get products exported.
-shake
-shake
Hydroponics and Procyon 100 LEDS
Quote:
Originally Posted by headshake
well seeing as you've been gardening for years, which at your peak you were running 4000W you should know that cooling is damn near just as important as lighting in the first place. if you shove a 400W light into a 15" x 15" area with no cooling, then hell yes you are going to have problems that include slow growth and discoloration due to heat damage and heat stress.
One of the primary reasons of the grow test, is to show the stress factor of the MH light in growing anything, even at 24" above the system. A lot of growers that I know personally, don't use reflectors, ventilation fans, etc... so for them, this is a real-world application test. Every grower using HID has suffered from the damage of heat stress at one point or another, as the tomatoes show. This is the reason we are adding in ventilation and glass for the bloom test. It will also allow us to lower the MH. First we show issues commonly faced by most gardeners, then we correct those issues with the MH (cause the LED doesn't have them), and do a PRO side-by-side bloom with ventilation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by headshake
and since your site is "different" than all the others out there, and you start at "square one" for all of us not so smart types, you would know that light is governed by the inverse square law that states "The intensity of light observed from a source of constant intrinsic luminosity falls off as the square of the distance from the object."
That is the reason I recommend using LED's at 6-12" from your plants. A lot of companies out there advise you to use them at 18 - 24", and they use less intense LED's. So what is your point?
Quote:
Originally Posted by headshake
or in layman's terms, light intensity is directly,squarely proportional to the distance at which said light is placed from a receptor of light, such as, oh, let's say a leaf. so, with that being said, the placement of your HID is TOTALLY relevant to the performance of your plants. care to differ?
What is your argument, besides arguing? Are trying to say that if the light were at 12" above the plants, that the plants would be growing at 3-4x the rate they are now? The difference from 12-24" is not enough to make a substantial difference to the growth rate of a 400W MH confined in a 15" x 15" mylar covered area. Other people have already argued on other forums that the inverse square law doesn't apply the same in this scenario because the light is being used in a much smaller area than it was designed, with highly reflective material. So what's your argument? How much DIFFERENCE are you claiming there is in growth, by having the MH at 24" instead of 12"??? Answer that before continuing on with your vague excuse for the HID's performance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by headshake
and frankly, i could care less about those other sites you are involved with. this is my HOME! these are MY people. and i'm not gonna let them get ripped off or get bum advice by somebody trying to make a quick buck. if your product is as good as you say it is then you won't need to say anything!
like i said, send me some units and i'd be more than happy to do some grow logs and INDEPENDENT testing! as i'm sure many others on this site would do. and those people will be the first ones to go to bat for you and your products should they live up to the hype!
So you think that I'm going to send some kid that's only been growing weed since last October, free lights after he's been nothing but abrasive on the forum, and expect you're going to give professional, reliable results? PLEASE! Do you know how many no-names like you there are, that have MINIMAL growing experience at best, that are out there soliciting me for a free light, acting like they have some kind of authority and a following? The grow journal I posted has pictures from a 3rd party. I could post my own results if I wanted, but that comes later.
You want an INDEPENDENT test? Go to grasscity.com as there will be plenty of them soon. If that's not good enough for you, Mr. Ed Rosenthal is doing a grow with our lights in 2-3 weeks from clone to harvest. 954W of our LED against a 1000W HPS. Why would I waste money sending you a free light, when I have someone like him who's agreed to do such high-powered testing already?
So please stop acting like Moses "My home, My people", as you don't speak for everyone on this forum. If you have something positive to add, or to discuss please do so, but continuing on in a manner like you have isn't very mature...
Hydroponics and Procyon 100 LEDS
Quote:
Originally Posted by LEDGirl
One of the primary reasons of the grow test, is to show the stress factor of the MH light in growing anything, even at 24" above the system.
so how is this comparison valid then? you are using the HID with the worst possible conditions. and not a mention of any of that on your website. go figure. that's like saying everyone that runs a drip system has had a clogged dripper at one time or another, let's just clog em all and see how see does!
[quote=LEDGirl] A lot of growers that I know personally, don't use reflectors, ventilation fans, etc... so for them, this is a real-world application test.[/QUOTE}
so you assume that all of your customers are morons? not to mention leave out the whole truth while trying to convince them that your product is better? why not educate the customer and let your product do the talking?
Quote:
Originally Posted by LEDGirl
Every grower using HID has suffered from the damage of heat stress at one point or another, as the tomatoes show. This is the reason we are adding in ventilation and glass for the bloom test. It will also allow us to lower the MH.
again, you are making assumptions. i'm sure many growers have had heat issues. shit happens. but to assume that most people don't use proper cooling, c'mon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LEDGirl
First we show issues commonly faced by most gardeners, then we correct those issues with the MH (cause the LED doesn't have them), and do a PRO side-by-side bloom with ventilation.
what issueS are these? you've pointed out one issue that you make no mention of anywhere on your site.
again, you yourself used to run 4000W. and you didn't have adequate cooling?
even if cooling wasn't an issue, unless you are running co2, you need to have old, o2 filled gas exhausted while bringing in fresh, co2 filled air. so ventilation is a MUST, regardless of the type of lights your choose to run!
Quote:
Originally Posted by LEDGirl
That is the reason I recommend using LED's at 6-12" from your plants. A lot of companies out there advise you to use them at 18 - 24", and they use less intense LED's. So what is your point?
you tell me i have no point and then you tell me that you tell people to run their LEDs 6-12" away, in response to my inversed square law of light comment. yet in one of your following statements you tell me the LAW is not applicable. if it is a LAW of physics then exactly how is it not applicable?
what is your point is saying that most other companies use weaker LEDs and also tell people to run their lamps further away? why would they do this if they use weaker parts?
[quote=LEDGirl]What is your argument, besides arguing? Are trying to say that if the light were at 12" above the plants, that the plants would be growing at 3-4x the rate they are now? The difference from 12-24" is not enough to make a substantial difference to the growth rate of a 400W MH confined in a 15" x 15" mylar covered area. Other people have already argued on other forums that the inverse square law doesn't apply the same in this scenario because the light is being used in a much smaller area than it was designed, with highly reflective material. So what's your argument? How much DIFFERENCE are you claiming there is in growth, by having the MH at 24" instead of 12"??? Answer that before continuing on with your vague excuse for the HID's performance.[/QUOTE}
i don't think i've made any irrelevant points yet. i've been pretty concise and to the point and used your own information against you and you through that line out. LMAO!
if the HID had proper cooling and you used the light to the best of it's potential then YES, their should be a significant increase in growth. the distance might not make a difference with INADEQUATE COOLING. HID are generall more efficient, more so than even fluorescents.....but they still produce quite a bit of heat. if this heat is not dealt with in a suitable manner then yes, their will be an adverse effect to overall growth.
again, you tell me that a LAW of physics doesn't apply. that's pretty cool!
i make no assumption as to the difference in growth, because as you can see there are many factors that are taken into account when growing any plant, lighting merely being one, albeit, the most important. but if you set yourself up for failure from the get go you can't expect miracles in the end.
i guess there is no valid scientific proof as to why people use cooltubes with great success? it just happens to work because in their grow boxes and tents the inverse square law of light is applicable and in full effect?!
Quote:
Originally Posted by LEDGirl
So you think that I'm going to send some kid that's only been growing weed since last October, free lights after he's been nothing but abrasive on the forum, and expect you're going to give professional, reliable results? PLEASE!
first off, i'm far from a kid, but again, thank you for assuming that you already have all of the answers. the only answers you have are insults and hot air as time and time again, i pick apart your "science" and put the rest of the worlds into effect. i often do this while using your own words against you, with nary a mention of them as you weakly attempt to defend your products and ideas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LEDGirl
Do you know how many no-names like you there are, that have MINIMAL growing experience at best, that are out there soliciting me for a free light, acting like they have some kind of authority and a following? The grow journal I posted has pictures from a 3rd party. I could post my own results if I wanted, but that comes later.
wow, i'm a no-name. what's my momma gonna think of me know? get real. you know how many no-names would buy your products if they work because some other no-name gave them a good report? but what do you know about customers? you assume that they are stupid and do a half-assed job.
you also come onto message boards to pump your products, without paying for adequate advertising. and for what? because you are doing market research or what? or because you are too cheap or lack funds to properly advertise the greatest LED grow light to grace this rock?
i'd say my experience is better than minimal. i obviously have a firm grasp on the basics and fundamentals of this hobby. i'm a smart cat and learn from others mistakes. my grows are accounted for on the boards. my pics are around. you can find them. never once do i embellish on what i have done or what i use. my advice is solid. find out for yourself as it's all here in black and white.......and there is pictures too!
i never asked for a free light. i simply asked for a test unit. that's usually how reviews work. you send out a product, it's tested and then sent back. the companies or people reviewing the product don't pay for it and then send it back for a refund. i guess your internet was down during that day of the two-day business school that you attended.
i merely offered you an outlet to SHOW that your product indeed does what it's claimed to do. i don't think the word free once came out of my mouth, yet again, you blow hot air at me. another assumption that i wanted something for free. lol.
i have no authority and no following, nor do i attempt to. i'm merely saying that we watch each others backs around here. we are a tight-knit group. again, you attack me personally without first doing your research. shame shame. all while representing your own company and trying to shove products down peoples throats. i appreciate you making the majority of my arguments for my by continuously inserting your own foot in your mouth time and again.
we've already established the fact that you are not 100% forthcoming in your disclosure of the FACTS yet we are supposed to believe that those are indeed third-party photos?
Quote:
Originally Posted by LEDGirl
You want an INDEPENDENT test? Go to grasscity.com as there will be plenty of them soon. If that's not good enough for you, Mr. Ed Rosenthal is doing a grow with our lights in 2-3 weeks from clone to harvest. 954W of our LED against a 1000W HPS. Why would I waste money sending you a free light, when I have someone like him who's agreed to do such high-powered testing already?
i'm not gonna go chasing your products results down all over the internet. i have no relationship with those people. i don't know if they are trust worthy or if they are members of your own company, or perhaps even nomes-de-plume for you.
i'd be interested to see Mr. Rosenthal's grow. where exactly will this information be located?
i have question for you though. what is the point of running 954W of LED as opposed to a 1KW HID? isn't the most alluring factor of LEDs is the cost of operation as opposed to HID? (in my opinion the lack of heat output is a bonus. it's already proven that growers (at least of cannabis) will use the BEST method available!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by LEDGirl
So please stop acting like Moses "My home, My people", as you don't speak for everyone on this forum. If you have something positive to add, or to discuss please do so, but continuing on in a manner like you have isn't very mature...
i'm not moses. and for once you are correct in an assumption, i don't speak for everyone on this board! but i've continually de-bunked your arguments and slight of hand. and i've got at least Old Mac backing me up who has more experience than you've been alive twice over again! i know he has some pull here. so that's two voices that you've ignited that will at least garner some attention. all this because you were trying to get some free advertising. if you presented fact and no filler you might have gotten a pass, but you were full of fluff and when someone called you on it and proceeded to present facts you resorted to lame arguments and attempted to throw everything from my name to physics out the window! so don't sit here talk a big game without first thinking about all factors involved. i guess i shouldn't have expected as much from someone who thinks cooling/ventilation is an SIGNIFICANT PART of growing ANYTHING indoors.
should of just bought that advertising space now, huh?!
i have no intention for jocking HIDs as i use CFLs. i just like my science to line up with the facts, call me crazy.
so i guess you can considered yourself schooled by this "kid with no experience"!
-shake
here is the post i keep referring to in case any of you missed it.
[quote=LEDGirl]I'm new to this site, so I'll start off by saying hello :) To start off, here's some background on me:
I've been a medical marijuana patient now for about 5 years. During that time, I've grown aeroponically, and because I didn't like anything on the market, I developed my own high-quality units. I consider myself a very professional grower, but everyone can make their own judgments. At my peak, I was running 4,000W dual spectrum over two 2' x 4' aero trays. Some things happened in my life, as they often do, so I downsized to 3000W over the same area. Below is a picture of a Strawberry Cough x White Rhino plant I grew back then. The plant was on the outside edge of the system (furthest away from the lights), and the cola you're staring out came out to be 31g-32g dried. The entire plant stood about 2.5' tall and yielded nearly 8oz's.
Anyhow, I help patients here in WA with setting up their gardens, getting the right equipment, clones, etc... and teaching them how to grow. For people seeking a medical authorization, I refer them to the appropriate clinics so they are able. I'm also an employee of a company that builds LED grow lights specifically for marijuana, which are the ones seen in the pictures. One patient that I began working with about two years ago has progressed a lot, and like me, has switched to using LED's instead of HID. She's not the type to post pictures online, but she did say it was ok for me to take pictures of her progress. Prior to this bloom she was running 3800W of LED over the same 2 aeroponic trays that I use. Here are the first progress pictures that I was able to take of her grow on 8-22-09
Hydroponics and Procyon 100 LEDS
Wow, I won't even waste my time... I've got better things to do that to put up with your BS. Have fun ranting with everyone else though ;) And for your info, I didn't read any of what you wrote, I just saw that you wasted a bunch of time sounding like an idiot with nearly a page of what's most certainly CRAP. Take care NOOB. No one takes advice from someone who has less than a year of growing experience...
Hydroponics and Procyon 100 LEDS
Quote:
Originally Posted by LEDGirl
Wow, I won't even waste my time... I've got better things to do that to put up with your BS. Have fun ranting with everyone else though ;) And for your info, I didn't read any of what you wrote, I just saw that you wasted a bunch of time sounding like an idiot with nearly a page of what's most certainly CRAP. Take care NOOB. No one takes advice from someone who has less than a year of growing experience...
You joined this board 2 days ago, have 18 posts att, most of which are spam.....
and you call Headshake a noob??? :wtf:
You really are great at this marketing stuff. Hope your company goes tits up.
:)
Hydroponics and Procyon 100 LEDS
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmac
You joined this board 2 days ago, have 18 posts att, most of which are spam.....
and you call Headshake a noob??? :wtf:
You really are great at this marketing stuff. Hope your company goes tits up.
:)
i'm sure people would love to buy products from someone who hurls personal insults, calls names and tells people they are morons for providing FACTS.
and the response to a rebuttal that was well though out and articulate was a dismissal due to the fact that she couldn't defend herself......and i'm immature!
thanks again old mac!
-shake
Hydroponics and Procyon 100 LEDS
