For those of you who dont appreciate Lil' Wayne...

There are a lot of VERY talented hip hop artists. Most obviously, The Roots. Black Thought and ?uestlove are a dynamic duo that you can't deny.

Talib Kwali, Mos Def, KRS One. just a few obvious hard hitters with plenty of provocative lyrics.

As far as you taking a music history class and thinking it takes no talent...you are WAY OFF. Sure the computer age has made it easy for talentless posers to spread their filth. And money hungry record companies (who don't even listen to the music they produce) dump loads of money into promoting shit and repackaging the same product to stupid consumers. But there is a very large collection of very talented, very original hip hop/rap artists. And surely you know that without black music (Rock&Roll, jazz, Blues, Soul, Motown, R&B, etc...) well...all that would be left is classical and country western. Music today would be nothing at all without it's black history.

As far as rap is concerned, there are a handful of decent artists and songs...but i don't agree with the bragging, materialistic, and shallow content of the lyrics.

Music is subjective. So...to each, his own. But open minds are a must.

Skeet.

PS - shit i like and recommend:

Clipse - Lord Willin' (a little braggy, but they flow like water)
Pharrell & the Yessirs - Out of my mind (in my mind sucks balls)
The Roots - Any album...start with "things fall apart"
De La Soul - any album...
Tribe Called Quest - Any Album...
Dilated Peoples - Expansion Team is my fav.
Mos Def - Black on Both Sides and The New Danger
Saul Williams - Self Titled album. More poetry than hip-hop, but very provocative.
Gil Scott-Heron - All of it. He's brilliant and influenced every def poet/rapper/hip-hopper

sorry...that's all for now. flame away.

This is why I don't like typing posts on the internet, meanings get misinterpreted...that's not your fault as much as mine because I don't really go in depth. I've been a musician since birth, my whole family for a few generations were musicians, I get a little critical about music b/c it means so much to me and has always been a large part of me. Now it's true you can listen to whatever you want, I'm not stopping you, but as for the class here's my point. In historical retrospect you seem to see an interesting trend, music nowadays (mind you not all) has been dumbed down to a laughable point. Mainstream music is more about image, putting out a clothes line, acting like a celebrity, and notice that hip hop has been the main fixture in that trend. You cannot deny that most (not all) of hip-hop and rap contain references to guns, being gangsters, bitches and hos, and more of that garbage. I mean I don't get it, you can see lil wayne or nelly or whoever the fuck else as being talented if you want, but really in retrospect personally I do not see them as being even a tiny bit talented as MUSICIANS, (musicians write music), especially compared to a shit load of past musicians, not just classical and in the past but many minds of today...let me just say this, no, I think it takes the simplest of minds to write hip hop and rap, yes a play on words and lyrics are a large part of all styles of music, but do not be so quickly fooled, even not so creative people and the simplest of minds can right fairly decent lyrics, that isn't the hard part. My friend if you were to look at all the brilliant musicians that this world has ever seen, musicians who transmitted their souls into their instruments, you would see, or at least I do, that the likes of any hip hop and rapper does not stand up one bit. Run Dmc is pretty cool, I heard immortal technique hes got some cool stuff but it isn't music, at least not in my eyes; just some beats here, some words there, some synchs there, done. I can't describe it over a post, but I whole-heartily believe it isn't. Yes I obviously am not picking out black people, I love the blues and jazz, and their contributions have been very important to music. As far rap and hip-hop, not so much.

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Originally Posted by bobthenuker

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I whole heartedly agree with 99% of that post. So we are on the same page. I meant no harm in the previous post, just throwin' in my 5 or 6 cents.

I also am a musician since birth. Most of my family are musicians and i am very aware when music lacks soul. I consider Rap and Hip-hop 2 different forms. Hip-hop...REAL hip-hop...in it's essence...is a revolution, no braggin, no bling, just an outcry birthed by a lot of injustice and need for change. Rap, which i consider hip-hop's "Commercial Cousin" is nothing more than advertising and killing. But then again...who the fuck am i? just some kid.

i don't really like a lot of rap. I can see where you think it takes no talent to create the music. Often times it is just loops of old tunes...but when it's right...it's right. I have discovered many amazing old R&B and Soul artists by searching out a loop's origin.

Then there are groups like The Roots who, for the majority, write and perform their music live. And they are all phenomenal players. If you haven't heard about it, check out the Philadelphia High School for the Creative and Performing Arts. A lot of those cats came from there, along with other artists like Boyz II Men (not my favs, but dripping with talent), Christian McBride, Joey DeFrancesco, and others.

I listen to all types of music, so i don't want to seem like some hip-hop enthusiast, it's probably makes up 10% of my collection. Lately i've been focusing on late 60's and early 70's Funk, R&B, and Soul. It moves me in a way i haven't felt in a very long time.

i'm babbling and totally off the OP topic. I agree with most of what you just said. But i like hip-hop and I don't think any/everyone can do it. In fact...most who are doing it, should stop IMO.

thanks. Sorry for any rustled feathers. Let's talk music again sometime.
Skeet.

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Originally Posted by WhiskeyTango

No one is saying, well, at least Im not that lil wayne is a LYRICIST. He is a dope ass rapper, got some good lines, but a lyricist he isnt. He is no Tupac, Biggie, Eminem, Taleb Quali to name a few. But weezys shit does ride out.

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I think a better term than lyricist is, rhyme artist. I love Lil Wayne because he has good beats and his lyrics rhyme well. It just makes for an aesthetically pleasing sound. Whether or not his lyrics make sense, or have meaning, they sound good and that's what really matters in music.

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Originally Posted by jimmy8778

not to mention that lil wayne is a guitarist. i havent heard too much of his playing, but its not all that bad, listen to the new kevin rudolf song he is on that. that is a sick song, especially lil waynes part, he is crossing the barrier of rap/rock i would almost say. There were bands like linkin park that did so, but never a full rapper rapping over a broken rock beat in the middle of a song like that.

lil wayne like to take what is new to him, and apply it to his career/trade, and does so effectively, and if that isnt what talent is then i dont know what it would be.

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Wayne is an amateur guitar player, if you can ever actually hear what he plays over the beats and everything, its not very good. He sounds like he has maybe a year of experience playing. He can't lay down a riff like he can a rhyme.

I'm ridiculously high right now so bear with me...I'm not in any way saying that rap is inherently lousy or anything, I'm just saying the vast majority of the mainstream is, whether it be rap or modern rock or whatever. Most of us will agree that nowadays if you want to find quality stuff you have to dig a little deeper for it, get past the manufactured trash...and most people aren't at all willing to do that, as all they give enough of a shit to hear are the latest hits. So you have most people liking empty and amateurish (musicianship-wise) stuff, with a minority digging deeply for actual great stuff. What the people listen to really determines the musical spirit of an age, and since the rap everybody knows and listens to is horrible, as a genre that reaches the people it's basically a flop. Obviously in the early '90s it was a different story.

And of course there's skill involved, but really, it can't be compared to melodic singing or instrumentation...kudos to those rappers who incoprate those elements.

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Originally Posted by jimmy8778

really, hes in it to just make money? i mean, lil wayne does rap himself, hes not much of a producer so someone else usually does that, but he has loads of talent. and its true, they arent really thought provoking, rarely are they deep, but i didnt really know that all music has to be an introspective masterpiece to be considered good. The point of rap/hip hop is to create some sick rhymes that flow with the beat and make sense in the song. Its about having something new, a beat, crazy lyrics that the other rappers dont have. It is a contest, you have to create new stuff to prove your the best, and lil wayne does that. Most of his rhymes are the freshest, and he has a knack for just pulling some of the craziest lines that really make you pull a double take on what he just said.

not to mention that lil wayne is a guitarist. i havent heard too much of his playing, but its not all that bad, listen to the new kevin rudolf song he is on that. that is a sick song, especially lil waynes part, he is crossing the barrier of rap/rock i would almost say. There were bands like linkin park that did so, but never a full rapper rapping over a broken rock beat in the middle of a song like that.

lil wayne like to take what is new to him, and apply it to his career/trade, and does so effectively, and if that isnt what talent is then i dont know what it would be.

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the point of rap/hip-hop is to speak out against the injustices and wrongs going on. to increase peoples mental capacity, to open your eyes or perhaps provoke a different train of thought. sick rhymes aren't some shit someone made up or talking about "i have cars, money, drugs, guns, alcohol and hoes. it is our job, as consumers and listeners of music to decide what's good and what's bad. to find the truth if you will.

how many rappers talk about selling drugs and whatnot. makes no sense. why is it only drug dealers can rap? it's funny because when you hustle you don't want anyone knowing you or your business but once you rap about it that's all you talk about. come on. they are praying on consumers because they keep buying that crap. why do people pay to hear someone say "i have this or have that"? they are basically saying your money helped pay for my bently. you pay for someone to tell you that. whoa! music is way deeper than that. you pay to get motivated, uplifted or to gain some knowledge. and i'm not saying i don't like this type of rap. my scope is broad and wide.

most of these cats that are making this club music crap are being pimped by the biz. they don't care as long as they are getting paid. you probably like soulja boy too! i don't know about you but i call anyone that sings and dances a pop star.

hip-hop and music in general is way bigger than your narrow-minded view. you can just listen to it to be entertained, but there is a whole other level there. listen, just don't hear. that's any good, real music.

mos def has a rock band and is one of the sickest hip-hop artist there is. and people were doing it well before him. run dmc did "walk this way" way back in the day.

for people that don't dig hip-hop/rap, that's fine. but don't knock it for being talking over beats. it's called RAP music. to converse or talk. to rap. and don't let the crap you hear on the radio make up your mind. that's commerical crap. hip-hop is todays rock and roll! it's everywhere.

lil wayne has an okay song every know and then, but most of it sucks. he doesn't even show up for some of his shows because he's too gone off of that purple drank.

sorry for the rant but i take music real serious. if you want to be entertained go watch a 2 hour movie. good music is timeless! it always plucks at your soul when heard.

-shake

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Originally Posted by headshake

how many rappers talk about selling drugs and whatnot. makes no sense. why is it only drug dealers can rap? it's funny because when you hustle you don't want anyone knowing you or your business but once you rap about it that's all you talk about.

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I think most rappers talk about selling drugs or doing whatever because they used to do it. Nobody that is as famous as these guys could get away with selling drugs.

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I think most rappers talk about selling drugs or doing whatever because they used to do it. Nobody that is as famous as these guys could get away with selling drugs.

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i'm aware of that. but some of them do get busted still hustling. my point was if you hustled as a means to an end and then start rapping to make a better life, then why talk about the old stuff you used to do. that's not what hip-hop is about. why would you not try to help people get out of bad siturations and give them motivation not rub thier nose in the fact that you have all this stuff and they don't.

and they wonder why people pirate music and movies. because they put out a crap product and people are tired of getting ripped off.

-shake

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Originally Posted by elskeetro

Sorry for any rustled feathers. Let's talk music again sometime.
Skeet.

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Just a friendly discussion man, no harm in that. I'm sorry if my views offend you, I'm very quick to the argument as you can tell. It's just that I see the garbage that is circulating the music scene today, and it makes me rather sick; obviously in music there are very few absolutes, and not all hip-hop is about drug-dealing and hos...but I'm fed up with it, all of it. (Don't even get me started on emo, a few chords and suddenly everyone's a multi-millionaire rockstar). You'd understand as a musician, when you have such an intense love for music, intense hate is the other side of the coin. The universe of music is a tricky thing to discuss, filled with many many opinions, since obviously not only musicians listen to music. My views may seem naive and hotheaded to many, and believe me I'm not someone that just listens to one genre, but someday I'm going to have to put into words just what I'm trying to say. For one thing though, I scorn those that do not put their lives into learning an instrument, putting their soul into it, even if the instrument is your beautiful moving singing, and go out and make millions of dollars to a public that just eats it up.