This is fucking insane... I mean shit, New World Order is even printed on our fuckin money! Oh well, Im glad Im "off the grid." Shits gonna be like that movie "Equilibrium" soon, lol...
:joint1:
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This is fucking insane... I mean shit, New World Order is even printed on our fuckin money! Oh well, Im glad Im "off the grid." Shits gonna be like that movie "Equilibrium" soon, lol...
:joint1:
Of course i do! I advocate market regulated free banking. I also oppose the IRS, which goes hand in hand with the federal reserve system...Quote:
Originally Posted by JakeMartinez
I'm against any government organization that isn't specifically spelled out in the constitution. So that pretty much leaves everything out but the military.
okay, maybe if i repeat myself in a really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really redundant way, y'all will get the hint:
stop using money, work the land for food, and share that food, stop waiting on politics to do what we need to do to survive, stop waiting on police to protect us, stop waiting of the federal reserve to act humane, and start taking responsibility for yourselves.
stop relying on money!
stop using money, work the land for food, and share that food, stop waiting on politics to do what we need to do to survive, stop waiting on police to protect us, stop waiting of the federal reserve to act humane, and start taking responsibility for yourselves.
stop relying on money!
stop using money, work the land for food, and share that food, stop waiting on politics to do what we need to do to survive, stop waiting on police to protect us, stop waiting of the federal reserve to act humane, and start taking responsibility for yourselves.
stop relying on money!
stop using money, work the land for food, and share that food, stop waiting on politics to do what we need to do to survive, stop waiting on police to protect us, stop waiting of the federal reserve to act humane, and start taking responsibility for yourselves.
stop relying on money!
stop using money, work the land for food, and share that food, stop waiting on politics to do what we need to do to survive, stop waiting on police to protect us, stop waiting of the federal reserve to act humane, and start taking responsibility for yourselves.
stop relying on money!
stop using money, work the land for food, and share that food, stop waiting on politics to do what we need to do to survive, stop waiting on police to protect us, stop waiting of the federal reserve to act humane, and start taking responsibility for yourselves.
stop relying on money!
stop using money, work the land for food, and share that food, stop waiting on politics to do what we need to do to survive, stop waiting on police to protect us, stop waiting of the federal reserve to act humane, and start taking responsibility for yourselves.
stop relying on money!
stop using money, work the land for food, and share that food, stop waiting on politics to do what we need to do to survive, stop waiting on police to protect us, stop waiting of the federal reserve to act humane, and start taking responsibility for yourselves.
stop relying on money!
stop using money, work the land for food, and share that food, stop waiting on politics to do what we need to do to survive, stop waiting on police to protect us, stop waiting of the federal reserve to act humane, and start taking responsibility for yourselves.
stop relying on money!
stop using money, work the land for food, and share that food, stop waiting on politics to do what we need to do to survive, stop waiting on police to protect us, stop waiting of the federal reserve to act humane, and start taking responsibility for yourselves.
stop relying on money!
stop using money, work the land for food, and share that food, stop waiting on politics to do what we need to do to survive, stop waiting on police to protect us, stop waiting of the federal reserve to act humane, and start taking responsibility for yourselves.
stop relying on money!
stop using money, work the land for food, and share that food, stop waiting on politics to do what we need to do to survive, stop waiting on police to protect us, stop waiting of the federal reserve to act humane, and start taking responsibility for yourselves.
stop relying on money!
stop using money, work the land for food, and share that food, stop waiting on politics to do what we need to do to survive, stop waiting on police to protect us, stop waiting of the federal reserve to act humane, and start taking responsibility for yourselves.
stop relying on money!
IS ANYONE LISTENING YET???
Wonderful...the ridiculous lifestyles of a bunch of Wall Street fat-asses are in jeopardy, so of course working class tax dollars have to maintain their aristocratic status.
Sounds like something that would have happened in France in the 1780s or something...hopefully revolution's just around the corner.
Hah I hate the Fed and IRS, too, but I don't support free markets.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenBoy812
Getting rid of both those institutions would greatly help our economy, though. We should have a free currency, just like the founding fathers intended. None of this getting loaned money even after we worked our asses off to get it bullshit.
And there are so many better ways to raise money for government than taxing our fucking wages...Direct taxation without representation is what we fought the revolution over, wasn't it?
Why do you not support open competition between firms? This provides the biggest advantage to consumers. It helps spawn innovation, and reduce inflation.Quote:
Originally Posted by JakeMartinez
I don't believe in currency. I think it's outdated.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenBoy812
A lot of people think this naive, but I think people can be given everything they want and they'll still help their fellows out of compassion. The only question is "Do we have the resources?" and I strongly feel we have the resources to give every person what he or she wants and even, with time, eliminate the need for most labor through the use of technology.
True, I think people may take advantage of it at first, but once people start being raised in that sort of society, it'll be less and less. Also, I think people would be bored with just lounging around all the bloody time. I know I'm fucking sick of it and it's only been a few months.
That's the end goal of what I'd like in our society so that we're free to create what we want and spend our time making people happy instead of having to look over our shoulders for someone who wants what you have.
As a transition, I think all the necessities should be nationalized. Farmers should be government employees and the food we grow and catch within the US should be either dirt cheap or paid for by the government. If someone wants a house, they should have one that's not going to put them in debt for 30 years. Water, natural gas, and electricity should be free or have their prices tuned only to pay for the operating expenses an extremely modest gain in case of unforseen circumstances.
So, yeah, I'm an open socialist. Not a communist.
Oh, and how can free market competition reduce inflation? I thought inflation came out of the fractional reserve banking system and from the federal reserve printing money to pay off the interest on the money already in the system.
That's why I say we should have a free currency if we're going to have one at all...with the money supply inflated according to the increase in goods and services.
All currency should be is a medium of exchange. Think about it, how else would you be able to obtain your needs without money? Say for example you were a shoe maker (cobbler), in order to find food in a society without a medium of exchange, you would have to find a shoe less baker, butcher, farmer, etc.... This is not necessarily a problem if you are the only cobbler, but you are going to have to facilitate trade on a large scale just to survive. Your overall efficiency would deteriorate as more and more cobblers emerged. This is known as the barter system. Look at the poorest African nations as a recent reference as to the effectiveness and the standard of living a barter system produces.Quote:
Originally Posted by JakeMartinez
But, if you were able to trade your shoes for an accepted medium of exchange, say for instance gold, your efficiency instantly increases because your shoes can now be purchased by anyone who possesses the desired amount of gold. Much better than only providing shoes to those who have the resources you need wouldn't you say? In turn, you will then be able to take your gold coins and purchase the things you desire and need, spend less time finding trade partners, and produce more shoes! More shoes for peoples feet will improve the quality of their lives. I mean, wearing heavy boots in the summer, or sandals in the winter would really suck!
Everyone in the world cannot possibly satisfy their every need because resources are in fact limited. Limited in scale (finite), and limited in terms of production possibilities.Quote:
A lot of people think this naive, but I think people can be given everything they want and they'll still help their fellows out of compassion. The only question is "Do we have the resources?" and I strongly feel we have the resources to give every person what he or she wants and even, with time, eliminate the need for most labor through the use of technology.
The bigger issue is how do you motivate all people to basically work for the good of society, as opposed their own best interests? There becomes a time when the good of society conflicts with a particular persons best interest.
The question arises, why would a person with superior ability want to receive the same disbursements as everyone else, even though their presence alone provides greater levels of productivity? Who would want to spend years and years being a doctor if you are given the same necessities as someone who cleans bathrooms? Either doctors or careers that require much sacrifice would be extremely scare (in the case of a MD, it would reduce the overall health availability), or these people in demanding fields would need to receive greater compensation than the average. This alone creates a class system.Quote:
True, I think people may take advantage of it at first, but once people start being raised in that sort of society, it'll be less and less. Also, I think people would be bored with just lounging around all the bloody time. I know I'm fucking sick of it and it's only been a few months.
You are describing a society free of desire. How can society prosper in such a case, and how would we go about creating a non-desiring society that can produce everything needed?Quote:
That's the end goal of what I'd like in our society so that we're free to create what we want and spend our time making people happy instead of having to look over our shoulders for someone who wants what you have.
There is a serious flaw in this statement. Nationalization of an industry will reduce its overall output capability. Reason be, what is the incentive to the managers, and workers to produce more? It is not like the increased production would necessarily benefit them. A situation such as this would lead to massive inefficiency, and therefore reduce the overall standard of living within that society.Quote:
As a transition, I think all the necessities should be nationalized. Farmers should be government employees and the food we grow and catch within the US should be either dirt cheap or paid for by the government. If someone wants a house, they should have one that's not going to put them in debt for 30 years. Water, natural gas, and electricity should be free or have their prices tuned only to pay for the operating expenses an extremely modest gain in case of unforseen circumstances.
Also, price caps do much more harm than good, and tend to lead to extreme shortages. For example, if a specific good is affected by nature (drought, flood, earthquake, etc...) of which its overall supply has been strictly reduced, the people who buy the said good at an artificially low price before the good diminished would then have a direct advantage over those who were unable to purchase the good. They would then be able to trade the good for something more valuable than the price cap specified.
Why? Do you not believe that a society that embraces competition will have a higher standard of living than one that does not?Quote:
So, yeah, I'm an open socialist. Not a communist.
Inflation is too many dollars (insert any currency) chasing too few goods. The biggest indicator of inflation is the increase in prices. For example, a piece of land holds the same intrinsic value for a developer as it did ten years ago. So the question is, why does it "cost more" than it did 10 years ago? Similarily, a long distance phone call now cost on average less than 3 cents per minute. From memory, i remember seeing a long distance phone call would be equivalent to $9 per minute in 1910. Why does it cost less than it did 98 years ago, even though it provides the same intrinsic value (communicating vast distances)?Quote:
Oh, and how can free market competition reduce inflation? I thought inflation came out of the fractional reserve banking system and from the federal reserve printing money to pay off the interest on the money already in the system.
While the generic term that categorizes inflation is correct, much more is needed to determine why more or less dollars are chasing too few/many goods. Price stability is the key in any economy. Not the stability of one particular good or ten, but the price stability of all goods.
The question remains, how else can you achieve this without open competition between banks and their preferred mediums of exchange?Quote:
That's why I say we should have a free currency if we're going to have one at all...with the money supply inflated according to the increase in goods and services.
Manufacturing would be handled by machines. This is already happening gradually thanks to the free markets because a machine can do manual labor with far greater efficiency and for far less money. With a manufacturing base rooted in automation, things like shoes would be abundant. This is going to happen whether or not society changes in the way I propose. The manufacturers themselves won't mind because they'll be able to turn the machines on and off at will, instead of risking trouble with a union for firing workers, to keep the prices of their products from becoming less expensive to the consumer than it is to manufacture, and because it'll reduce their manufacturing costs to the point that they'll drop their prices to compete better.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenBoy812
How does a free market solve that issue? The free market only casts out those without money, keeping them from those resources irrespective of how they got in that situation. That's not good policy. There must be a better way to do it. In the goal of this idea for society, resources wouldn't be scarce because technology and effective management keeps them from becoming scarce. However, it's a long and slow road to reach that.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenBoy812
Then why not work-in the ability to allow for people to act out of self-interest, as long as it doesn't harm the society? There's no such thing as perfection, so the idea that the system we have now is the best way to balance the society's and the individual's interests is laughable. I'm not saying this idea is perfect, either, but the best of my reason believes it's a step in the right direction.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenBoy812
Once again, technology. Technology could make something like surgery idiot-proof over time, something any punter who's good with his hands could do after learning basic anatomy and getting over the fear of cutting into another human.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenBoy812
Also, people raised in this society would know that acting for the benefit of the society is the most honorable thing a person could do, while making it a realistic goal unlike it is today. Thus, people would be motivated to increase their abilities because they want to help the society.
The desire would be a desire to create something. The other prominent desire in this society would be to keep moving the standard of living upward for everyone in the society. Thus, since technology is what improves our standard of living, the majority would find a desire to maintain existing technology or research new ones. If even a fraction of a percent devote even an hour a day to research, there would be more people working on research and development an hour than there is now. Thus, tech would move forward at a pace that vastly overshadows current speeds.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenBoy812
The incentive is to feed the people. Managers are trained to teach their employees to understand what their services mean to both the business and the consumer, that way they can take pride in their work and find an intrinsic motivation to work harder. Those driven by intrinsic motivation, something inside the person such as "I am a doctor because I feel it is my duty to help my fellow man retain his or her health", instead of extrinsic motivation (money, a reward outside of the person), are much more productive at anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenBoy812
Instead of saying government is broken and inefficient, and thus should scale back its power, why not work on making it better? That's not too naive, is it? Otherwise, at the rate we're going, government will be so marginalized that it'll be lucky to still be in charge of the military.
I said the price should reflect the costs incurred to provide the goods, with only a modest gain to go to a fund in case of unforseen circumstances. That way, if a drought affects the availability of water, there is a fund (perhaps gaining interest in a bank account) to cover the costs so the consumer doesn't see a massive price jump overnight, allowing prices to slowly increase over time.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenBoy812
It could work, if it was done intelligently. Our government should be able to handle anything a business can and then some. Why would you ask for less from those that supposedly protect you from harm?
Depends on the available resources. Technology creates more efficient uses of existing resources and also creates new ones. That's why I stressed the idea of transition. I know it's not something that could happen overnight.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenBoy812
I understand how inflation works. I just don't see how competition affects it.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenBoy812
It's not hard to figure out why the money supply moves independent of goods and services. The inflation is mathematically determined under fractional reserve practice, and also sped up by large loans such as the Bailout. This calls for intelligent expansion, not a mathematical equation that doesn't change with the times (except for speeding up because it grows exponentially)Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenBoy812
Through a government-backed, government-controlled currency that is free from unwise inflation or unfair interest. Benjamin Franklin cited King George's ban on a free currency as a prime cause of the revolution.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenBoy812