Iraq war shows limits of US power

True RG, but it isnt politically correct anymore to do protect yourself (assuming your a US soldier/citizen) you must 'passify' the enemy, make friends of them and gain their trust to get information on future terrorist acts (assuming you believe there IS such a thing as terrorists) You have to be nice and subserviant to the people who want to kill you and allow many months of time to win them to the your side.

Bahh.. I really wanna go off on this topic and say how I feel but I will be bann'd in 2 sec I think.

I support the USA, every 1 of our troops and am grateful for the job they do.

Waterboarding, torture, I say DO IT! These SoB'z have proven many times they are just animals and will cut the heads off the 'infidels' in the name of Allah for their richteous cause.

If their cause is so richteous and the western world can accept it as the way of the middle-east, then why cant they accept our heavy handed sword? Or preferrably a fleet of B-52's doing carpet bombing.

Again I am so sick and tired of fighting a war with 1 hand tied behind our back, did this happen in ww1, or ww2? NO! Did it happen in Vietnham, yes.. and Look at the fiasco it was.

Same thing happening here the press and public are running the war. NOT the military.

INSANITY.

Vietnam proved we forgot how to fight a war. And the same thing is happening here.

And if Hillary or Obama get in there and pull out of Iraq then your going to see a result like Vietnam. Where people were slaughtered by the millions.

We can't just leave. What about those brave Iraqi police and military. These guys want freedom. They crave Democracy. And so do most of the citizens. Women and young girls can go to school now and vote. This is because of the United States. Sadam was using mustard gas against kurds and his own people!

now,now RG

Somebody might think you actually support your country or are NOT part of the kool-aid drinking liberal left.

for shame, you actually respect and honor your country, how can YOU possibly believe that the press does NOT tell you everything, that the Generals and top level world leaders have information not privvy to the public, why that is just INSANITY.


I am with you 100% g/f.

Well if I'm a crazy Libertarian/Republican then so be it.

I've never been a liberal at any point of my life.

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Originally Posted by rebgirl420

Women and young girls can go to school now and vote.

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Women had the complete right to vote during Saddam's rule as well as girls were allowed to attend schools. If anything it is more difficult for people to vote or attend school with the current instability

The point of the article is that military power has limited value in the kind of situation we face in Iraq. Our military rolled over Saddam's military with no problem, but it is bogged down in this guerilla-style war for the last five years. Millitary against millitary, we can't be matched, but a guerilla war like Iraq shows the limits of US military power. I don't see anything wrong with that conclusion by the author. Rebgirl, you disagreed with the article, but then you said exactly the same thing.

Raw military power doesn't help much in this kind of war. Yeah, we could bomb the shit out of the place, or round up and shoot everyone of military age. No doubt we have the military power to do it. But it would never get us what we want. The more heavy-handed the tactics, the more recruits you get for the insurgency. You need to do your fighting in a way that doesn't just dig you deeper into the hole.

This is Vietnam over again, and Vietnam did not show that we forgot how to fight a war. Vietnam showed that raw military power has limited value against an insurgency. The Russians found that out in Afghanistan. The British learned that lesson how many times in how many places? (They probably learned it first in America where it was us who "fought like pussies, not like soldiers." The fine line between "freedom fighter" and "pussy coward terrorist" depends on which side you are on I guess. But now I'm getting off track.)

The biggest blunder (out of many) in Iraq was to allow the insurgency to develop in the first place. By disbanding the Iraqi government and army, Bremmer created the insurgency. Instead of keeping a power structure that our military could dominate and control, he created a chaos and vacume that led to an insurgency that our military power has little ability to control, and we've been paying for that blunder for the past 5 years.

this one time, at band camp...

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I've never been a liberal at any point of my life.

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your more of a liberal than you want to admit. a true liberal not the crazy left wing type.

and now a word from the liberal point of veiw.
i vehematly hate the far left they are a bunch of pussies. they are as bad maybe even worse thatn the bible thumping far right. it makes me almost physicaly ill everytime i see a peice of "news" from them. i get almost embarresed by these people of wich most are so far from being liberal its almost laughable at them claiming to be liberal.
i am a liberal i hate war, i love my fellow man and especially the women, i do not judge people by their race, sex, or creed. and guess what else i support our troops, i may be against this war but i do understand that the worst thing possible is for us to just cut and run. we should not have invaded iraq but that dont change the fact that we did. and now we have to figure out how to get out of there in a RESPONSIBLE manner.

but please people quit using liberal like its a bad word because there are many liberals who do not agree with the far left loons. this is like using conservative as a bad word because a few of them blew up abortion clinics.

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Originally Posted by yokinazu

this one time, at band camp...



your more of a liberal than you want to admit. a true liberal not the crazy left wing type.

and now a word from the liberal point of veiw.
i vehematly hate the far left they are a bunch of pussies. they are as bad maybe even worse thatn the bible thumping far right. it makes me almost physicaly ill everytime i see a peice of "news" from them. i get almost embarresed by these people of wich most are so far from being liberal its almost laughable at them claiming to be liberal.
i am a liberal i hate war, i love my fellow man and especially the women, i do not judge people by their race, sex, or creed. and guess what else i support our troops, i may be against this war but i do understand that the worst thing possible is for us to just cut and run. we should not have invaded iraq but that dont change the fact that we did. and now we have to figure out how to get out of there in a RESPONSIBLE manner.

but please people quit using liberal like its a bad word because there are many liberals who do not agree with the far left loons. this is like using conservative as a bad word because a few of them blew up abortion clinics.

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This is pretty much right on. Most people are more to the center, not extreme left or right, but they get lumped in with the crazies in their wing.

You want to ban abortion!
Well, you want gay people to get married!
Well, you're a warmonger!
Well, your a pussy coward cut-n-runner!
Well, you want to poison the planet!
Well, you care more about a fly than you do a human being!
Well, you want to give tax breaks to the rich!
Well, you just want to tax and spend!
Well, you want to teach my kid the Bible in science class!
Well, you want to ban my kid from saying "God" in the pledge of the allegiance!
Well, you want to throw out the Constitution and start a police state!
Well, you want criminals and terrorists to have more rights than law-abiding citizens!
Well, you want any criminal on the street to be able to have a gun!
Well, you want to ban my right to defend myself!
Well, you're an ass!
Well, you suck!
Suck THIS!
Screw you!
Smack!
Pop!
Biff!
Pow!
BLAM! BLAM! BLAM!
KABOOOOOM!
AAAAAAaaaaaahhhhhh!!!!!
UUUuuuuuuuuuhhhhhh!!!!!
...gasp....
...choke...
...die...
...die...

These simple-minded stereotypes are stupid. But it's the far extreme true believers on each side that are the ones who do the work for each party, while the vast majority are more in the center and don't care so much about extreme positions on either side. But the parties pander to those who will raise the money and do the work, so they stake out these extreme poistions, and the rest of us get taken along for a ride. Honestly, half the stuff the extreme wings fight about are not even things that would even occur to the average person to worry about. But once the parties start shouting about it, everyone feels like they have to take a side. We get distracted away from the issues that really do matter to most people, and nothing ever gets done.

This is where we went wrong. The terrorists were fighting fight like pussies. NOT like soldiers.

And just how would you fight a superpower with attack helicopters, tanks and cluster bombs, F-16s etc. Run out in the open and give them the finger? ~LOL~. Rediculous.

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Originally Posted by medicinal

This is where we went wrong. The terrorists were fighting fight like pussies. NOT like soldiers.

And just how would you fight a superpower with attack helicopters, tanks and cluster bombs, F-16s etc. Run out in the open and give them the finger? ~LOL~. Rediculous.

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Those pussies won't face our attack helicopters, tanks, cluster bombs, cruise missiles, jet fighters, strategic bombers, artillery, aircraft carriers, submarines, and laser-guided ordnance like soldiers! If they had any spine, they'd let us kill them like men! Pussies won't fight fair! Wah!

I agree, it's totally ridiculous to point out on one hand that we have an unbeatable military force that can roll over anyone who stands against it face-to-face, and then say on the other hand that the enemy should try to stand against it face-to-face! Just becasue they are an enemy does not make them a bunch of morons who will oblige us by fighting on our terms!