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Why if a perfect human died to sin would a perfect human have to die to correct it? Not even a trillion sinful humans Deaths could make up for the loss of a perfect Human Dieing to sin. Only an even exchange would apply. If I'm still not getting your WHY please help me.
I believe that he is asking why God has to go through such lengths in forgiving people instead of just saying. I forgive, please don't make the same mistake again.
Correct aspasticbull, Why set up the rules so that He can't just forgive us? It's the most contrived version of forgiveness I've ever seen.
God is not forgiveing Perfect Humans or Sprit creation that has gone agenst God's laws. (It's not a matter of Forgiveing them) God also HAS to settle the question what happends if I do things My way and Not Gods. Other wise we would have rebellion forever.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore Newbie
Yes he created the laws and rules but to have Perfect Freewilled Creation serveing him out of LOVE. God has to rule with and not budge from his LOVE, JUSTICE, WISDOM, and POWER.
Adam was perfect and died from Sin, he then was father to the World. Only a perfect Man who never Sined could take his place to restore Mankinds ablity to draw close to God and Recive the Gift Adam and Eve were supost to have, Everlasting life on a perfect earth.
Jesus Did die for your sins But we are all sinners still. Psalms 37:11, 28,29 When this is fullfilled we will then become perfect, and as the scripture says the Wicked will be cut off Forever.
It's not a matter of forgiveing and lets have a nice day, a rebellion was started saying God's rule was unjust and we as any creation Human and Angel do NOT have to serve God. That had to be settled and then on top of that All the ones who do want to serve God will they Die? Then thats why Jesus was sent to Earth to die for all mankinds sins so anyone who belives in God and in Jesus Death could then get right back to where God STARTED and that is a perfect earth that he wants filled with perfect humans.
There is alot more to it that o dang dude you messed up ok well don't do it anymore.
You still haven't shown how a perfect being can make imperfect choices and decisions. The presence of free will does not change anything, the presence of free will doens't mean that you must choose the imperfect path, it just means that a choice is there, and a perfect being will choose the best choice, every time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Krogith
You can not state Adam to be perfect without addressing this glaring flaw.
I'm not asking for the story, I know the story, I'm still asking for *why* God needed Jesus to forgive us, you and me. Why can't he just say "Adam effed up, but that shouldn't reflect badly on you, it's not your fault that Adam disobeyed".Quote:
Originally Posted by Krogith
Please stop explaining the story and explain the logic behind it.
I'm not asking for the purpose of Jesus, I'm asking for the rationality behind God choosing to forgive us in such a convoluted manner.
I generally believe in second chances myself, and for the simple act of someone disobeying me, my idea of forgiveness wouldn't be a conditional acceptance of Jesus. My idea would be to talk rationally about why certain things are wrong. I guess I'm just rational like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Krogith
ok i just gotta jump in here.
if a perfect man died in sin then he aint so perfect is he. so therefore if he aint perfect he can be forgiven.
and the reason for "god" using jesus is easy. it comes from the bible and the bible is a book written by man and its all BS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore Newbie
Ok I can see where your comming from. You want to say that anything perfect Will always choose whats right.
I have had a hard time understanding this fact also in the past but we have to understand that. Perfection would have to mean that you Are fullly Capable of makeing the right decision. It done not mean you have to. Adam knew God and knew God gave everything good and did everything good for him. He Choose to follow his wife who was deceived.
He had all the knoladge of Gods ways and could speak with him during the brezzy pary of the day, And was told not to eat from the tree of knoladge of good or bad or you will die.
He choose to do things his own way, agenst God. Just because he was perfect does not mean he would allways choose whats Right.
He was perfect But remember he was not ALL KNOWING. Thats why the tree was put there in the 1st place to say to Mankind I God Know whats good and bad and I God know EVERYTHING. You have to listion to my laws or you will cause Pain to others.
Adam knew he should Follow God's laws and let his wife Die he Followed his own way. Perfection is Not All Knowing It is the Capability.
In Hebrew terms the word perfection draws from such verbs as sha-lam (come to completion) Ta-mam (be Completed) So he was fully able or completed and was able to follow God's laws perfectly.
It does not mean he would always make perfect decisions, He was Capable of doing so.
Freewill Means you got a clean sheet you can do what ever you want. So He was perfectly made and fully able to do whats right and follow God, he could still choose not to.
clearly different people have different ideas of what perfect means
If God decided perfection to mean that you always choose whats right, Then everyone would automaticly serve God. Because it's right, Not because they want to, or Love God and could choose not to serve him. But because God made perfection mean you always choose whats right, and God's ways are right. That is not what God wanted.
Thats why I keeped repeting my self (sorry) that God wants people to Choose to serve him out of Love for his ways.
Personaly I would rather it be this way because If you were A Father would you want you Sons to serve you because it's right and thats just what they do? Or would you want them to love your ways and Choose to serve you?
Freewilled service is a wonderful thing to be love by creations that Choose to love you. Not automaticly Love you Because your Right.
The fact that we even have to argue about crap like this makes me ashamed to be human. Adults believing in fairy tales are a disgrace. :wtf: