Your definition of existence and reality?

You've been watching too much Matrix man... makes for fun discussion though! :)

trippy stuff... I am a concept and information... wow

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Originally Posted by Earthy Dank

trippy stuff... I am a concept and information... wow

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Don't be too certain of anything. ;) Keep questioning... too many people have closed their accounts with reality.

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Originally Posted by afghooey

There is thought. Is that the beginning? Let's consider this. There is information. A flimsy concept, but for the purposes of the discussion it will do. On one level, reality is information. It does not exist as sights, sounds, colors, smells, or tactile objects. There is awareness. This awareness is a reflection of the 'information' level of reality; information is passed through the body's senses and is reflected into the brain by electrical signals. These signals are filtered immensely, and then reconstructed into a form that can be percieved; as electrical signals are reconstructed into images and sound that are percieved when a TV is flicked on.

It is at this level that information becomes what is commonly called 'reality'; sights, sounds, smells, color, texture, space, lines, borders, etc. Then this perception is reflected and filtered again into concepts and constructs, into thoughts and also, more abstractly, into emotions. Often, thoughts are further filtered and simplified into symbols known as language.

Thoughts are reflections of reflections; words reflections of reflected reflections. Throughout all of this, the different levels of reality remain intact and exist simultaneously. Thoughts exist on the level of unfiltered information, as well as on the level which they are percieved. The words being taken off of this page and re-structured into concepts exist simultaneously as thought and information.

Now, what I'm driving at is this: What gives the impression that any level of reality, whether filtered or unfiltered, is possesed by something called 'I'? What is this 'I' that that the existence of thought assumedly proves the existence of? Is 'I' made up of the reflections themselves? Or, perhaps, is 'I' the filtration system? What has us convinced that 'perception' is different from 'perceiver'? Where exactly does this separation take place?

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:clap::clap::clap:
If don Juan Matus would read this, he certainly would smile... You put it very well... i agree whole-heartedly, and couldnt have written it any better.
Anyway... as most people dont think in such ways, i prefer to say that reality is what one believes that is real. Each one percieves the world through its own mind, and each mind have its own notion of what is real for it, so each one thinks some things are real and others are not.
As the mind of people are different, what is real for one may not be real for other. But we cant make other people percieve the world in the same way we do, and is meaningless to discuss which way is "better", as the way to perceive the world is a personal matter. For each people, its own way of percieving is the "right", and so, its the "real".
IMHO, i agree completly with the view of Afghooey. But, is only my own (and his) view. Its right and real for me, but it may be crazy for somebody else.

I believe reality to exist independantly of humanity.

good topic..ill try to post later

we exsist, simply as we percieve we exsist, i do not know how animals percieve, or even other humans. There is an entire universe, all around us, happening without much connection to us, except our interactions with it. We are born, learn, live, and die... the end

ther is no magic, only facts, what you can't understand, can be explained logically... it just might take enlightenment

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Originally Posted by Reefer Rogue

I believe reality to exist independantly of humanity.

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I understand. Everybody sees Real TV, but, it's taped. You're not actually seeing it happen. And then you just saw it.

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Originally Posted by Reefer Rogue

I believe reality to exist independantly of humanity.

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Can you expand on this? In what way is humanity separated from reality?

i think therefore i am
i see therefore i believe
i feel therefore i know

reality is the surroundings and conditions put on you (check out platos cave)
existance is your take on your percivement of reality and own processes

i guess there is no definative.

i think to exist is to know you exist on some level. wether this is just an automated idea of survival or a deep philosophical understanding.

wether or not we do exist or reality is a mirage. it is real as it is the only reality and existance we have

peace