The Samson Option

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Originally Posted by Torog

Howdy delusions,

Yer reply to medicinal,was right on target,and I doubt if I could have said it better-thanx ! :thumbsup:

What the anti-wars and the isolationists don't seem to grasp,is that this is boiling down to a fight for the very survival of the Free World..and that what happens in the rest of the world,does impact us,here in America and our allies too.

Another thing that many peaceniks are in denial of,is the dedication that muslim-arabs have in regards to fulfilling the command of the koran to wipe out Israel and murder all Jews there and everywhere else they are to be found in the world. The koran also orders the destruction of all non-muslim goverments,but during WW2,the muslim-jihadists worked with hitler and rommel,in North Africa,to hunt down and murder Jews..their goals were congruent.

As badly as the peaceniks don't want anyone to set off any nukes,why are they willing to put Israel in a position where they have no choice but to use nukes ?

And then,there's Taiwan..they are a thriving democracy as well and have contributed much in the way of scientific achievement,yet the peaceniks would have us abandon them to the commie chinese.

Have a good one ! :)

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Look, you warmongers have never given peace a chance. The first sign of animosity towards our fucked up foriegn policy and it's lets bomb their asses. If we had some foriegn policy makers with a peace mission instead of a lets rape and pillage their natural resourses, maybe we wouldn't be so hated throughout the world. Even our old allies in Europe have abandonded us because of our waring tendecies. If the whole fucking world hates us, who is in the wrong. Are we Vain enough to think the world is wrong and we are right, how insane is that? We are but 5-6% of the worlds population, so you're saying that 95% of the worlds population is wrong, I believe you're delusional. We need to put this country on a peacemaking path with ambassadors to every country with a major apology for past behavior and become a part of the world community instead of trying to own it.

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Originally Posted by medicinal

Look, you warmongers have never given peace a chance. The first sign of animosity towards our fucked up foriegn policy and it's lets bomb their asses. If we had some foriegn policy makers with a peace mission instead of a lets rape and pillage their natural resourses, maybe we wouldn't be so hated throughout the world. Even our old allies in Europe have abandonded us because of our waring tendecies. If the whole fucking world hates us, who is in the wrong. Are we Vain enough to think the world is wrong and we are right, how insane is that? We are but 5-6% of the worlds population, so you're saying that 95% of the worlds population is wrong, I believe you're delusional. We need to put this country on a peacemaking path with ambassadors to every country with a major apology for past behavior and become a part of the world community instead of trying to own it.

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Well Said, Med...its the most sane post yet:thumbsup::thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Torog

And then,there's Taiwan..they are a thriving democracy as well and have contributed much in the way of scientific achievement,yet the peaceniks would have us abandon them to the commie chinese.

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Just exactly how long has Taiwan been a "thriving democracy"? Do you know? More than 20 years? Fewer than 20 years? Come on, take a guess. During the majority of the time that we have supported Taiwan, have they been a democracy or a dictatorship?

Is the PRC still communist (other than just in name - you know, kinda like how we pretend that the USA is a constitutional federation)? Does the PRC have elections? Have you been to China recently (or ever) to witness for yourself the kind of country it is?

Then there's the Palestinians. They have a democratically elected government. Accordingly, I'm sure you must approve of Hamas, "democracy" seemingly being your one and only criteria for approval.

Then there's Iraq. Woohoo - giving those savages a say in how they are ruled sure worked out well, didn't it?

The world is not quite as simple as you make it out.

JMO

PC :smokin:

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Originally Posted by medicinal

Look, you warmongers have never given peace a chance. The first sign of animosity towards our fucked up foriegn policy and it's lets bomb their asses. If we had some foreign policy makers with a peace mission instead of a lets rape and pillage their natural resources, maybe we wouldn't be so hated throughout the world. Even our old allies in Europe have abandoned us because of our waring tendencies. If the whole fucking world hates us, who is in the wrong. Are we Vain enough to think the world is wrong and we are right, how insane is that? We are but 5-6% of the worlds population, so you're saying that 95% of the worlds population is wrong, I believe you're delusional. We need to put this country on a peacemaking path with ambassadors to every country with a major apology for past behavior and become a part of the world community instead of trying to own it.

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i always find it somewhat amusing when the us is declared the cause of all the world's woes. aside from our cold war fiascos in korea and vietnam, most of the american interventions of late have been at the pleading insistence of the international community. it is hard to tell whether our role as the police force of the world is a result of our own hubris or if it has been thrust upon us by a world unwilling to deal with its own warlike tendencies. then, when we are attacked and react as any threatened nation would, we suddenly become the aggressor. a step to far in our retaliation and an aggressive stance in our backing of un resolutions, suddenly our european allies (?) consider theirs to be the moral high ground.

oh what grand allies they are. let's take germany as an example of these bosom buddies. a country which spent a good deal of the last century attempting world domination and even more licking its wounds and suckling at the teat of american reconstruction efforts. perhaps you mean our pals the french, famed for their fine cuisine, their great cultural accomplishments and their historical tendency toward collaboration with any enemy that overwhelms their delicate sensibilities. yes the french, whose latest aspirations seem to center around being the arms merchant of choice to anyone with two francs to rub together. it's sad to say, but for a major player such as the us friends are few and far between and more difficult to keep than to make.

is that supposed 95% of the world wrong? not entirely. america's sins are many, but the same can be said of any major power throughout history. any nation seeks to thrive and grow. what can be said for the us is that for the most part their efforts have been through cultural and economic influence instead of at gun point. instead of colonization and the suppression of the indigenous population, there is usually an effort to aid in the utilization of resources (at a profit of course, altruism is best left to philanthropists and fools) and in most cases this leads to a corresponding rise in the standard of living. call it rape and pillage if you wish (that sounds politically correct and you can probably get away with it), but those resources will be exploited and if the us wishes to pour billions of dollars into an area to create the infrastructure (which will probably be nationalized in a couple of years anyway) shouldn't they be eligible for some of the resulting profits?

in conclusion i would like you to consider the repercussions of any apology. whether you want to admit it or not, this is a world where weakness is taken advantage of. nations and peoples spend a great deal of time and effort hiding their weaknesses from their neighbors, attempting to appear healthy and strong in order to keep from being preyed upon. i don't even want to consider the chaos that would result if a world power were to grovel at the world's feet and beg for forgiveness. the economic fallout alone would most likely be catastrophic. this is reality, welcome.

but those resources will be exploited and if the us wishes to pour billions of dollars into an area to create the infrastructure (which will probably be nationalized in a couple of years anyway) shouldn't they be eligible for some of the resulting profits?
You seem to lump us the taxpayers with them the corporations in this gem of an explanation for why we the taxpayers should pay to build the resources necessary for the corporations to reap the profits. Anytime the US goes into a country and sets up shop, it is with taxpayer money, when the spoils come out, it is the corporations that benefit. Why should that make me happy. I'd much rather see that money spent on our citizens for health care and infrastructure.

i don't even want to consider the chaos that would result if a world power were to grovel at the world's feet and beg for forgiveness. the economic fallout alone would most likely be catastrophic. this is reality, welcome.
Who said anything about groveling? To explain to the world that there were some crazy assholes in charge of our foriegn policy before with nothing but greed in their hearts but now we were going to try and change this, would this take away from our recognized power? I doubt it. The world still knows the power behind our country. The fact that we were trying to be diplomatic instead of bullying our way would go a long way towards promoting peace on the planet. I'm pretty sure we could be compassionate and strong. Look at how the world loved Bill Clinton, he used to get standing ovations in all countries. Bush goes to a country and they have riots in the streets. There is a strong position from which we could operate and be more friendly to the world, it would just take smarter people than we've had leading us for the past 6-1/2 years.

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Originally Posted by Torog

As badly as the peaceniks don't want anyone to set off any nukes,why are they willing to put Israel in a position where they have no choice but to use nukes ?

! :)

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Wrong, I support a US nucleur attack on israel if they refuse to to disarm.

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Originally Posted by andruejaysin

Wrong, I support a US nucleur attack on israel if they refuse to to disarm.

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At the risk of another violation, I feel compelled to say that you sound like a real fucking anti-semite and, although I'm agnostic, I sincerely hope there is a special hell for people like you!

PC :S4:

damn! my backspace button on fire.....israel should disarm for peace to ooccur---------:S1: awww nevermind

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Originally Posted by eg420ne

damn! my backspace button on fire.....israel should disarm for peace to occur---------:S1: awww nevermind

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:S2::S2::S2::S2::S2:
i'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and believing that that comment was meant sarcastically. otherwise i would have no other choice than to assert that this is one of the most absurd statements i have ever seen on these boards.