I thought the point would have to be that God has evolved beyond his original limitations, and now exists primarily as an expletive.Quote:
Originally Posted by fsunoles
Are you a big fan of literal translation by any chance?
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I thought the point would have to be that God has evolved beyond his original limitations, and now exists primarily as an expletive.Quote:
Originally Posted by fsunoles
Are you a big fan of literal translation by any chance?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore Newbie
Man, knowing you strongly believe in god, I highly respect that you still recognize a fallable argument when you see one, regardless if it agrees with your beliefs. I've heard a few atheistic arguments myself that I've shot down, because if you truly believe you're right, you can know your logic is solid.
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Its under pressure that we shows our real self...
Sometimes, but our "real self" is every changing and open to being molded. It's still completely sensible to believe that powerful emotion will override logic when one becomes desperate.
Well for me, the traditionaly seperate conscious entity, the diety "up there" that judges and watches us, is not believable because I've yet to see a logical reason for it.Quote:
Why does its so hard to admit we believe in god, even if only in a almost subliminal level?
Some people do, some people don't. Being an atheist doesn't necessarily mean you know there's no god, it means there's no reason to believe in god until there's a logical reason to. It drives me nuts when people say you have to have "faith" not to believe in god. That's just nonsense, under the same logic a person would have to have "faith" not to believe in superman, invisible flying space jellyfish, gremilins at the center of the sun, or anything else you could imagine. I have faith there's no god (in the traditional sense) like I have faith there's no Galactus out there eating planets.Quote:
Why does people clings to the reason, as if it were the truest thing in the unverse?
I don't think one should be humiliated to believe in god, that's their choice and from an atheistic perspective, one based on fallable logic. But everybody commits logical fallacies, and many people are conditioned since birth to think that way, you can't fault them for it. I think some people though, are embarrased to believe in god because it seems "crazy" to them to express a belief in something that has no evidence to exist. Fortunately for theists, people stop feeling silly about a belief in invisible beings when enough people believe it to not make them feel alone.Quote:
Or why does people thinks its a humiliating, lowering thing to believe in a superior being?
I don't know either, but Einstein was a believer in god. However, you can't argue the validity of a belief by making an appeal to authority. Einstein was a respected physicist and mathametician, not a master of philosophy, logic, or theology.Quote:
I dont know the author of this quote, but its a very known person... dont know if its Einstein, but im sure it was someone as respected as, who said:
"Superficial thinking leads to no God, but deep thinking leads to God."
All the best to you:smokin:
Yeah dude....this would be true that we were desperate and calling on god, except some people in the world don't even have emotions. And a lot of times I happen to be one of those people. I could give a fuck-less if someone I was close to died. Lot's of people might call on God because it's sub-conscious, just how I was taught about God and stuff, it's all subconsciously in my memory....your arguement just dosn't work....
That is prayer. Prayer is begging for favors from a non-existent deity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyde roponics
An atheist does not believe in the concept of a god, or gods, and therefore will not pray. I use my brain in "bad situations", and do not rely on superstitious rituals that have no basis in reality or rational thinking. Anybody that prays is not an atheist.
Not an atheist for the moment perhapse. You have to keep in mind Breukelen, that while your or me can keep a cool calculating head in dire circumstances, some people become utterly irrational as the seratonin floods their brain.Quote:
Originally Posted by Breukelen advocaat
Sorry to disappoint, but I'm agnostic :D I usually shoot down both sides of the arguments, if the logic doesn't make sense. I just don't like arguments that people draw conclusions ie: If you did A, then you must think B. People are fallible and make mistakes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf_The_Grey
I can't stand when *some* atheists assume that if you believe in evolution, that you can't believe in god, which is a ridiculous conclusion.
Creationists have the upper hand in EVERY discussion. They can claim the unprovable as their belief, merely as a possibility. What I mean is that if I believe in a deity of any sort, I can claim that any set of rules that our universe works upon, that a god could have done it. And guess what? I'd be right. There could be a god that created gravity, the laws of physics, light, heat. I could even make the argument that a god is constantly keeping these rules in check, like he is constantly "pushing us down" in accordance to the laws of gravity, it shouldn't be that hard (rather, effortless) for an all powerful being.
From a purely creationist standpoint, the creationist "wins" the argument EVERY TIME, merely by presenting an idea as a possibility that they subscribe to. The problem comes when a creationist takes an idea of possibilities and presents them as fact, usually through a holy book of sorts. These facts need basis, but the basis is generally in the word alone, whereas science has a way of showings it's truth through experimentation and observation. The best part about science is that when science is wrong, science changes.
Anyways, just for my own knowledge, can I ask where specifically you got the idea that I was a "believer"? A certain post?
Well... i dont believe this "the diety "up there" that judges and watches us" also... what i call God is somewhat more abstract... anyway, for me the logical reason why i believe in God (whatever it may be), is just "why not?"Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf_The_Grey
We can not prove or disprove the existence of God by logic or reason, so some people choose to believe, and some choose dont believe. For me, both are logic and reasonable. The only difference is the arguments one uses to justify one's belief.
I think i understand they point. There is not any set of arguments of logic and reason capable of proof, in an undeniable way, that there is NOT superman, or anything else. We (im sure most of people too) just believe there is not, but there is not any fact that can prove us that he doesnt exist. Only arguments, only words. So, we believe in a thing for which we have no concrete proof. Its the meaning of "faith". So, even if irritates you, i must agree with them that is logically valid to say "My faith (or belief) is that there is not superman".Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf_The_Grey
What we call "real", is simply what two or more people perceive in such alike way that they can agree about the nature of the perception they are having. If you see, lets say, an U.F.O., alone, you may think you were hallucinating. But if anybody else sees it too, both of you will agree that what you saw was "real". Was it really? Imagine how would be to tell your friends and another people who wasnt there that what you did see was "real"...Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf_The_Grey
Youre right... but i didnt mean make any appeal to authority or whatever like this... i only wished to cite a quote that, for me, resumes very well my visions about this kind of discussion. It only a personal opinion. The fact it was said by a "famous" person dont makes it truer or falser... anyway, Einstein was really a believer in God, and thats why i think the quote would be him's.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf_The_Grey
Peace and weed. :thumbsup::jointsmile:
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Anyways, just for my own knowledge, can I ask where specifically you got the idea that I was a "believer"? A certain post?
Hmmmm, sorry man I must have had you mixed up with somebody else, maybe with a similar avatar or name.
That whole "You can't prove or disprove" argument doesn't make sense to me. It seems like another one of those creationist tactics to put their beliefs on equal grounds. Really, you can't disprove the existence of absolutely anything I can imagine, like say gremlins at the center of the sun, but that doesn't mean they have a 50/50 chance because they can't be proven or disproven.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coelho
But like I said, if faith in the non-existence of superman is just a matter of faith, what makes god more valid than superman? Psychologically, I'd say because people feel more justified in their belief when millions of others hold to it as well.Quote:
I think i understand the point. There is not any set of arguments of logic and reason capable of proof, in an undeniable way, that there is NOT superman, or anything else. We (im sure most of people too) just believe there is not, but there is not any fact that can prove us that he doesnt exist. Only arguments, only words. So, we believe in a thing for which we have no concrete proof. Its the meaning of "faith". So, even if irritates you, i must agree with them that is logically valid to say "My faith (or belief) is that there is not superman".
You are quite right that almost nothing can be proven, but that's why we have terms like "accepted theory". It's funny when a lot of creationists say "evolution is only a theory", they think it means evolution is only a hypothesis. Medicine, gravity, quantum physics, pharmaceuticals, economics, and marketing are all just theory.
I suppose the point of using several people to validate a consistant piece of evidence, is that the odds of both (or more) of you hallucinating the same phenomena are an astronomically minute possibility.Quote:
What we call "real", is simply what two or more people perceive in such alike way that they can agree about the nature of the perception they are having. If you see, lets say, an U.F.O., alone, you may think you were hallucinating. But if anybody else sees it too, both of you will agree that what you saw was "real". Was it really? Imagine how would be to tell your friends and another people who wasnt there that what you did see was "real"...
Ah, I wasn't sure if you were making an appeal to authority or just quoting something interesting, but OK that's cool.Quote:
Youre right... but i didnt mean make any appeal to authority or whatever like this... i only wished to cite a quote that, for me, resumes very well my visions about this kind of discussion. It only a personal opinion. The fact it was said by a "famous" person dont makes it truer or falser... anyway, Einstein was really a believer in God, and thats why i think the quote would be him's.
Peace man, you've provided some good conversation.Quote:
Peace and weed. :thumbsup::jointsmile:
:O someone stole my kimbo peppers? It is a great avatar tho, I coudn't blame them if they did :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf_The_Grey
Oh shiznat I never even realized that was Kimbo! That's pretty brutal stuff they do, not something I'd go for personally. Though you do get some guys with real martial skill, and that's always entertaining, comparring one skill against another.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore Newbie