For those to whom it has NOT worked......are you guys measuring the temp of what you are COOKING ......or the oven temp? It's better imho to measure the temp of what is BEING COOKED vs oven themp.
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For those to whom it has NOT worked......are you guys measuring the temp of what you are COOKING ......or the oven temp? It's better imho to measure the temp of what is BEING COOKED vs oven themp.
agreed. Like most others here I'm throwing this together true stoner style- whatever is available. That said, to my credit I did buy a meat thermometer but I suspect the oil cools too fast once removed from the oven to obtain an accurate reading. I tried leaving it in but it exploded and leaked. I suspect I'm having trouble because I'm using a toaster oven and not a slow cooker. Either there is too much thermal loss through the door to maintain heat transfer, or more likely; the heating coils in the oven cause the inside temps to surge above the thermostat setting every time they come on and overheat my mix...
I do know one friend of mine who measured both and found a difference between the oven temp and the mixture temp of about 50 degrees so it could make a difference. Something to think about anyway.
if your doing the mixing bowl and pan method how long do u cook it for if youre using bud :rastasmoke:Quote:
Originally Posted by Flameon
Hey m your coconut oil looks fine to me. I've tried everything from olive oil (average) to peanut oil (not recommended) to coconut oil (:thumbsup:) I don't really think its a crime if it's not EXTRA VIRGIN. ;)
okay so i made some too last night, i used 1.5 grams of some good bud. When you use bud is the color of the oil supposed to be lime green when cooled off??? i left in the crock pot on low for 2 hours and did everything proper. I took 1 at first and didnt feel much so i took another and got the same results. 6 pills later:eat: i felt that i must have done something wrong or maybe i need to put more MJ in. So can anyone help me out???? I mean i had the giggles like a mofo :S2:and drank some beer and even smoked but i felt i should have been having a radical trip. Can someone maybe point me in the right direction :hippy: thanks
I'm out of supplies for right now but I'm not given up because I know this is sound and proven science. That means if it's not working, as much as I'd hate to admit it sometimes, it HAS to be my fault... I'm certain the problem is the toaster oven. I bet it gets up to temp just fine, but as soon as the temp drops those coils fire up again until the thermostat inside matches the stt temperature on the outside of the unit. Unfortunately, I'm going to bet that the coils aren't programmed to come on at a partial power setting when this occurrs so I'd bet they just come on full power at 1000watts or whatever, and once the inside of the oven heats up to temp they shut off. It wouldn't surprise me if this causes the inside temperatures to surge over the vaporization point intermittently and cause a dramatic loss of potency. I need to either get a crock pot or find something else.
Speaking of something else, I had heard of others using coffee mugs for the oil and placing them in shallow water inside the crock pot. Had anyone thought about Keeping the coffee mug and losing the crock pot? You could put the oil in the coffee mug and use a coffee mug warmer plate like this one? http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html/602-5808638-9820638?ASIN=B000CO89T8&AFID=Froogle&LNM=B000CO89T 8|Mr._Coffee_Mug_Warmer__MWBLK&ci_src=14110944&ci_ sku=B000CO89T8&ref=tgt_adv_XSG10001 I'm trying to find out what temperature range these things operate at. I cvan't find specifications posted for the 102V 'Mr. Coffee' model, but their are a bunch of models which plug into USB which operate on 50-60C. I'm pretty sure this isn't hot enough but I'm also assuming the units which are powered by a wall socket will get hotter because the USB models are limited by the 5V rating of the bus, and the low current levels it is capable to deliver. Remember- a USB port is not a 'proper' power supply.
All these issues about temperature have caused me to ask this question of anyone ho can give me a reliable answer: What is the acceptable temperature range for simmering? My understanding is that it only needs to meet two criteria: Stay below the vaporization point (275F) at ALL COSTS and remain warm enough to keep the oil in liquid state. Is this correct or does the oil need to melt, AND reach a higher minimum temperature, or is the MINIMUM temperature at which this extraction point will work the same or below the melting point of the oil?
Since the magic number for this recipe seems to be 90C or 200F I figured the coffee warmer plate would be perfect because it is designed to keep a beverage which begins at 212F close to it's original temperature, but such a device is also exclusively designed to NOT boil the beverage placed on its surface...
Anyone know what the MINIMUM temperature is to get this to work?
I'm out of supplies for right now but I'm not given up because I know this is sound and proven science. That means if it's not working, as much as I'd hate to admit it sometimes, it HAS to be my fault... I'm certain the problem is the toaster oven. I bet it gets up to temp just fine, but as soon as the temp drops those coils fire up again until the thermostat inside matches the stt temperature on the outside of the unit. Unfortunately, I'm going to bet that the coils aren't programmed to come on at a partial power setting when this occurrs so I'd bet they just come on full power at 1000watts or whatever, and once the inside of the oven heats up to temp they shut off. It wouldn't surprise me if this causes the inside temperatures to surge over the vaporization point intermittently and cause a dramatic loss of potency. I need to either get a crock pot or find something else.
Speaking of something else, I had heard of others using coffee mugs for the oil and placing them in shallow water inside the crock pot. Had anyone thought about Keeping the coffee mug and losing the crock pot? You could put the oil in the coffee mug and use a coffee mug warmer plate like this one? http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html/602-5808638-9820638?ASIN=B000CO89T8&AFID=Froogle&LNM=B000CO89T 8|Mr._Coffee_Mug_Warmer__MWBLK&ci_src=14110944&ci_ sku=B000CO89T8&ref=tgt_adv_XSG10001 I'm trying to find out what temperature range these things operate at. I cvan't find specifications posted for the 102V 'Mr. Coffee' model, but their are a bunch of models which plug into USB which operate on 50-60C. I'm pretty sure this isn't hot enough but I'm also assuming the units which are powered by a wall socket will get hotter because the USB models are limited by the 5V rating of the bus, and the low current levels it is capable to deliver. Remember- a USB port is not a 'proper' power supply.
All these issues about temperature have caused me to ask this question of anyone ho can give me a reliable answer: What is the acceptable temperature range for simmering? My understanding is that it only needs to meet two criteria: Stay below the vaporization point (275F) at ALL COSTS and remain warm enough to keep the oil in liquid state. Is this correct or does the oil need to melt, AND reach a higher minimum temperature, or is the MINIMUM temperature at which this extraction point will work the same or below the melting point of the oil?
Since the magic number for this recipe seems to be 90C or 200F I figured the coffee warmer plate would be perfect because it is designed to keep a beverage which begins at 212F close to it's original temperature, but such a device is also exclusively designed to NOT boil the beverage placed on its surface...
Anyone know what the MINIMUM temperature is to get this to work?
At the risk of implying we are anywhere NEAR "the Flameon of Knowledge" but have you read our thread? In that thread also is a link to ANOTHER capsule thread to try as well.
Good luck guys.
Oops.......almost forgot.........http://boards.cannabis.com/concentra...-s-recipe.html
Ok, first I'm going to reply to mspofford032579, who didn't have any luck... Dude, you are using WAY too much oil. You should NOT see a distinctive line between the weed and the oil. I know because I started out with exactly the same way. Ok, now I'll just relate my latest experience.
History: You can go back and look at some of my posts, but here is the gist. I've done a fair bit of experimenting. I've even just put the oil in a pan on the stove and thrown in the weed. Yes, it works, no it isn't better.
I thought I had reached a pretty good point to where I was getting a nice buzz from a reasonable amount of weed. I once wasted 3.5 grams of weed by using too much oil. So, I thought, let's just use the bare minimum oil to make the weed soggy.
I use a small, metal muffin pan, you know, that you can pour batter into and make small muffins? Ok, so previously, my end product would look just like mspofford032579's. All the weed settled to the bottom and an equal, or more, layer of oil on top. This worked for me ok, but when I used less oil I had MUCH BETTER results.
I heat up the oil and then dump in the weed until the weed reaches the top of the oil. I know it's the right amount when there is no free-flowing layer of oil at the top. You want the consistency to be mushy THROUGHOUT the mix. NO EXTRA OIL!
Ok, so this method was working great for me. I had been cooking small amounts, like 1 gram or so and it was working ok. I got tired of cooking all the time, so this last time I decided to cook 6 grams. The first time I cooked it, the results were just ok and I realized I had used too much oil. So, I added weed to get the right consistency and cooked it again for 2.5 hours.
I do this in a locked metal cabinet in my garage to keep it out of sight from my kids. I tell you this because it gets cold at night and this affects the temperature in the crockpot. So, after the second cooking, I opened up the cabinet and realized that I had left the lid off of the crockpot, thereby not trapping the heat inside. I didn't even sample the result because I knew that it couldn't have been hot enough to really cook at all.
So, I secured the lid and cooked another 2.5 hours. The next day I ate a normally sized chunk AND GOT COMPLETELY, UTTERLY, FUCKING WASTED OUT OF MY MIND!!!!! Normally I could take this much and function around my family just fine and nobody would be the wiser. Dudes, I'm here to tell you that I had to go hide in my bedroom and pretend to be sick because I was unable to function around other humans!
The next day I took half of that and it was still way too much. Yesterday I took a quarter of that and it was a little bit too much. I can't fucking believe it. I'm now eating like 1/2 of a teaspoon or less and getting a GREAT buzz. The 6 grams that I cooked up could be broken up into about 18 pieces, each of which will get you a great buzz. Take two and you'll be on the verge of not functioning in society. Take 3 or more and you'll be a jiggling pile of jelly!
My main complaint about the capsules was that I had to use A LOT of weed to get the same effect that I could get when vaporizing. That is no longer the case. I think I can actually use LESS weed to get more high now by eating. By the way, I did away with the capsules. They're great if you want to carry it somewhere, but don't let it get warm because it'll melt right out of the capsule. I just cut off a chunk, crunch it up with my front teeth and swallow it with water. Works great.
Ok, so here's my problem. I'm not exactly sure what the secret formula was. :( The first and most obvious thing is that I cooked it three times. The next variable is that it has been getting warmer here because of spring, and I'm certain that the temp inside the crockpot was higher than normal. The first time I cooked, the oil turned green. The second time was (seemingly) a bust because I left the lid off and the oil was still green. The last time, the oil was brownish green (heavier on the brown). I did not monitor the temperature throughout the process, but I did note that the max temp when heating the oil alone was 300F.
I'm REALLY REALLY REALLY hoping that I can reproduce this result because it is amazing. All I can tell you is to keep trying. Try different amounts, different temperatures, different times and see what happens. I thought I had gotten the process as good as it could get and then I made a mistake and learned that I was SERIOUSLY missing out. Here's my next experiment...
1) Good consistency...mushy and no freestanding oil. If you can tilt the pan or bowl or whatever and the see the oil flowing across the top, it's too much.
2) Cook at the normal temp for 2.5 hours with the lid on.
3) Cook with the lid off for 2.5 hours.
4) Cook with the lid on for 2.5 hours.
This replicates what I did before. I hope like hell that it works again. Most likely, the period with the lid off is not necessary. I'm tempted to try cooking for 7 hours with the lid on, but hey if it ain't broke, don't fix it! LOL
I am very afraid that there is a "magic" temperature range and I will never know what it is. The fact that I was cooking in the garage in the cold and now it's warmer tells me that the temp was higher, but I'll never know for sure what it was.
I'll report back.
PS- I have now determined that it is NOT POSSIBLE to not get high from this shit (when cooked right). I don't care how often you smoke or what tolerances you have. I eat or vape every day and I don't think I've ever been that high in my life.
Moby it sounds like you DID crack it....it's SUPPOSED to be a lot for a little.....I'm using less weed than ever with these capsules.
Glad you got it......I wish more people would experiment with a few higher temps if they aren't having success with the lower numbers.
Hey Moby, how long did the good stuff take to "kick in?"
I always take it at least 4 hours after I've eaten. With the weaker batches it would take 1 hour to 1.5 hours to begin feeling it. With the new batch, I start feeling it in 30 to 45 min and at 2 hours I'm peaking, but the peak is a big ol plateau. LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by Weedhound
I think for me a temperature of 212-225 F was good for me. I dunno which exact temperature works best tho. thats all I need to know..
I decided to make some cannabis capsules. (thanks, PassingShips <3 ) The first mistake I made was to get vegetarian capsules. I have some gelatin ones on the way but even then I'll have to keep them in the fridge to prevent from melting this summer.
I get migraines with some level of frequency. So in order to avoid going on Topamax, we're going to try the medimar approach. I live in an unenlightened area of the U.S. so while I have a legitimate medical reason to be stoned every day, I have to be as stealthy as possible. Before I found out about caspules, I had a little dugout system that I carried with me and if I needed to smoke I'd go in a parking garage or a friend's house on campus. I found that smoking herb gives me too much of a peak, and I'd rather have the effects be at a lower level, but last all day. The capsules appear to be a great alternative, the best part being that the low temperature and short cooking time (2ish hours) give you a clearer high with no tiredness.
For the first set of capsules, I used midgrade ganj - $30 an eighth with seeds and stems.
Anyway, so I made the first batch with 1tbsp of butter and about 1.5 grams of finely chopped herb. This sat in a crock pot for 2.5 hours and made about 12 capsules. I put about 5ml onto a slice of toast and ate it on my 3 mile cycle commute at 8:45 in the morning. It made my mouth and throat go numb, which was pretty weird. I came up during class at around 10am. The effects were very nice, lasted all day. I had a sort of cinematographic visual effect along with a general feeling of well-being. Colors were brighter, etc. I liken the effects more to a small dose of LSD, although I wouldn't call it tripping.
I'm pretty sure that this recipe I used was a little less potent than the ones described in the thread. My friend took six of the capsules, and said that the experience was very good - not "tripping" but about as high as you can get on weed without falling asleep. Mind you though this kid ate an entire 30lb cactus he ordered off the internet, thinking he would trip off it. I mean, an actual live cactus in a pot of dirt. He had it shipped to his house and then he ate it. The whole thing. And he didn't trip. Which I thought was hilarious.
Yesterday I made another batch, and used about 4.5 grams of finely chopped weed (this time a little higher-grade than the stuff I used before) and 4 tablespoons of coconut oil. First of all, the coconut oil and butter are going to prove ridiculous in the summer. Coconut oil melts at like 75F, so there's no way I'd be able to bring these with me without a cooler. I'm thinking about measuring them out onto a good such as toast or flapjack - the only drawback being I hate the taste of coconut more than anything in the world, and the taste of weed makes me gag. No seriously, eating that slice of toast triggered my gag reflex so badly I was scared for a second that I wouldn't get it down.
I haven't tried the new batch of capsules, I'm riding two of the first batch today.
This is definitely the most cost-effective way of getting the most out of my weed.
Temperature setting: LOW on a crock pot. This is really a perfect setting I think. I also tried the "little dipper" crock pot, which only has two settings: low and unplugged. That worked pretty well but only for small batches since it's a tiny thing. The bigger crock pot.
It will also be worth investing in a coffee grinder as it takes forever to chop up weed really finely with a knife. (Oh btw, the "no garlic/meat/onion" side of the cutting board now tastes like weed. There are worse things though)
Im going to agree with joyfuldinosaur that the taste makes it hard to get down. I made some using clarified butter and since I can't find the capsules anywhere I just put the butter on some toast and smother it in peanut butter which works alright, I wonder if there is anything else you can eat with the butter to stop the gag reflex.
Hi mtjboy2021, and welcome to the forums :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by mtjboy2021
If you're finding it difficult to get hold of some empty capsules, there is an easier way to consume the Canna oil/butter than mixing it with peanut butter or spreading it on toast.
As an example: When you've finished cooking your cannabis infused butter, you can simply pour it onto a small plate or saucer and then place in the fridge until it sets (if you're using coconut oil it sets as hard as candle wax).
Once solid, take it out and divide using the tip of a sharp knife to create the required number of doses and shape into 'swallow-able' sized pieces.
When finished, place in the freezer compartment for half an hour or so until frozen, then quickly wash down your 'iced' butter pellets with a glass of juice or similar.
That way there is very little opportunity for the butter to melt in your mouth, and therefore less chance of being put off by the 'weed' taste.
Hope this helps a bit, and good luck! :jointsmile:
p.s. Someone I know rolls the pellets in jam before swallowing and finds that helps even more.
Hi mspofford032579, how's it going?Quote:
Originally Posted by mspofford032579
Sorry to read you've been having a few problems 'hitting' a temperature 'sweet spot', but I can see from your posts that you have a very good understanding of the 'science' and techniques involved, so I'm more than hopeful we'll figure out a method that can crack it for you.
By the way, love the idea about using a coffee warmer, I've not considered that before and think it deserves a bit of further research.
I'll get back to you once I've had chance to look into it in more detail.
You're quite right about NOT using a USB powered cup warmer though, those things are only designed to keep the temperature at around 50/60 degrees Centigrade - too low for our purposes.
But the 'hot plate' of a coffee machine might well be hot enough?? I'll check it out and post up later.
Also, good work on posting up the pictures that was very useful.
I was wondering about the consistency of your oil/butter and think (using your pics as a guide) that the 'cakes' don't look quite right. Ideally, there shouldn't be such an obvious separation between the butter and plant material (as in your half brown, half butter coloured image).
I would expect to see ALL the butter taking on a brownish/dark green-ish colour, and suspect that a) the weed wasn't quite as finely ground as it needed to be, and b) the temperature was too low to dissolve, break down and melt the plant material and THC into your oil (again, not helped by the 'granular' size of the weed used).
My best advice is to grind as finely as you can and then cook a batch on a low-ish temperature (say around 90 degrees C - 195 degrees F) .
Try a small amount and refrigerate the rest. If it doesn't 'hit the spot', re-heat the mixture at a slightly higher temperature and repeat until you find the ideal formula.
By the way, nice work, and good luck - flame :thumbsup:
P.S. Hi to joyfuldinosaur
Good job on your first batch.
Glad to read it worked out well for you (even using mids on the first shot too!).
Coconut oil sets pretty hard at an average room temperature, but you're right about the summer weather being too warm for it to stay solid. Try a batch using the gelatin capsules though and you'll be fine. They'll only leak (or melt) if subjected to either a lot of shaking around or a very high temp.
Failing that, use the oil/butter in a 'low heat' brownie or cookie recipe and take those with you (low heat so you don't vape the THC in the butter). Generally, they won't smell of weed, but may taste a bit 'funky'.
Hope that helps. :thumbsup:
Good Actually :) I've had a couple of more successful batches- I'll go into detail in another post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flameon
Exactly. In the states (not sure about the UK) there's a brand called 'Mr Coffee' and they sell Just the warming plate as an accessory. (see links below). Anyway- The specs say it operates at 212F/100C so it would be perfect...Quote:
Originally Posted by Flameon
Mr. Coffee Mug Warmer - MWBLK : Target
Accessories - Mug Warmer - MWBLK - Mr. Coffee
Ground to dust with an electric coffee grinder.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flameon
Exactly the problem. I think (fingers crossed). I used a crock pot and it's been working! Still problems though... It's sweet and sour. I'll go into more detail in a future post when I'm not so wasted on a batch of these things... I need to make adjustments because they don't seem to be 'saving' me any weed, and I don't consider myself to he a HEAVY stoner (anymore that is). Stay tuned because I'll probably post a bunch tonight or tomorrow...:stoned:Quote:
Originally Posted by Flameon
same as if you have hash> concentrated marjiuana :jointsmile:Quote:
Originally Posted by DSOTM420
You actually take two of these before you go out? That really is impressive. These are definitely night time couchlock doses for my wife and I, when we go out we smoke, a totally different type of high. We each only take one and are usually knocked out for a good night sleep within 3 hours. I used some premium morrocon hash in my first batch and it definitely is the strongest batch i made. The second batch I used an 8th of some soap bar, its still strong but not like that first batch. I only have 16 of those capsules from the first batch left so I need to make those last until I can find some more premium hash.
Once again.. thank you for sharing this recipe.
well I must say this is one of the best, most useful threads ive read on here! Flame I bow down at you...:clap: (I could not seem to find the bow smiley, so clap will do) I just made my first batch. I used 1 gram of some Very expensive headies, 6 grams of coconut oil, and cooked it in a glass shot glass in a crockpot for 2 hours. it came out beautifully (ill post some pics tomorrow) then I put it in the freezer for 5 minutes and it was almost rock hard, like very hard ice cream. I then stuffed full some 00 sized what used to be weight loss pills. the moved them to the fridge. I filled one half way up and just took it about 35 minutes ago and im just starting to feel it kick in. Im soooo excited, for my first time cooking with bud, i think i did a very good job. ill have an update tomorrow with pics.
so then Im guessing the temps of 212 or 225 are optimal? which one exactly? I want to make a good batch. Maybe 212 for making oil for brownies, and 225 for extract...
sorry about the delay on pictures, but here they are... I did not get an pictures of the process(ill get some next time around) The orange pills are 00 and filled on the long and short side, packed to full capacity. The one red one left is a little smaller but still packed up tightly. Last night i took one orange and two reds, it took about an hour and a half to feel any thing, but it was not like a "trip" or anything, i would compare it to a Xanax bar or maybe two. It was a very very good pain killer after a LOOOOOONG day at work. i felt like i weighed 400lbs:D i could not move. it may have been the oil i used, as it was only 60% saturated fat and it was refined. Im going to buy some extra virgin next tiime and get a better thermometer.
Also a little 4-20-08 sac i just picked up;) some Purple Erkel :)
Hey everyone man all these makeshift recipe's no proper records
of time and temperature. everyone's recipe is different :wtf:
I have been a chef a long time and time and temperature are
crucial when cooking anything!!!! I have been reading all the recipe's in this forum and what a big mess! very confusing :(
what info I have gathered looks to be that
<lowNslow> [175*/24hrs] will make a narcotic couchlock buzz <hotNfast> [325*/5min]+[175*/1hr] will give the giddyNgo buzz
I read that the resin heads do not melt until 280*!! so I agree with
masterwu on hitting over 280* for atleast 5 min. I wouldn't go much longer than 5 min, unless you have a sealed pressurized air tight container(threaded beaker/flask) to bake in, so you donot loose any vapor. MasterWu experimented the other day and made his recipe but left out heating @325* for 5 min and only heated it to 200*, when he tried it the buzz was nowhere near as potent as his recipe and more of a couchlock buzz. He wasn't very happy!! But then had a brainfart! and went and added more RUM to it and heated it up 325* for 5 min and walla it all cameback and he saved his Gd, He was mucho happy!! :D and he proved it needed heat!! but not too much heat now remember Quote "[THC vaporizes at about 380°F]" Covert before Extraction :dance:
ok I'm getting lost on what I am talking about know too much misinformation!! This one guy I know says he cooks his butter in a crockpot on warm(175*) for 4 days!! Says it comes out good
he doesn't wash it, just a light strain. oh ya I haven't had my meds yet today just min brb :jointsmile: ok I so made some butter yesterday and it just finished (24hr)will try it tommorrow.
This is what I did I clarified 1lb of butter.Then I measured out half of [email protected] I ground up 1/2oz put it in my pyrex measure cup and put it in my crockpot on warm(175*) came back here and started reading recipe's for awhile(2hrs), Then i got confused,and I decided to put some water in it(150ml) and raise the temp to
225* like the recipe I just read said too I was going have too keep flipin the temp switch between High and Low to keep it
@225* cause that is how the recipe said todo big mistake! ok so its on high and I come sit down start surfin web reading recipes puff a smoke and I started to smell the butter ...oh crap I forgot to go turn it down, I go look and its @310* it looked kinda brown
and all of the water was gone :( so I kooled down rite away and set temp back to warm @ (175*) (I did not replace water)and let it cook till today(24hrs). I did a very Light strain on it and put it in a jar in fridge as I want all of the thc the stuff I strained will be
eatin no waste! The little bit I tasted good I will try some soon making cookies ok I am going to go make them .....:thumbsup:
I think these might be good guidelines for canna cooking
<lowNslow> [175*/24hrs] will make a narcotic couchlock buzz
<hotNfast> [325*/5min]+[175*/1hr] will give the giddyNgo buzz
I might have to adjust the guidelines what do you guys think....
Sorry for the late reply- my wifes pc has a trojan. We've made a couple of successfull batches but there were so many changes made at once that it is difficult to tell which changes had te greatest effect.
First and most importantly- I used a Crock Pot, and to date it has been the only cooking appliance that's worked.
Another Important conclusion I drew was that it's important for the weed to be EXTREMELY well ground. The batch of this stuff we made that worked the best for us was ground up with an electric coffee grinder. My wife did a second batch later in the week with 'headies' (20 bucks a gram) but used our hand grinder thingy, and the final product wasn't anywhere near as good as the batch we made the first time. You want the weed to be so ground up it's like a fluffy pile of powdered sugar or something. Just put it in the grinder and leave it on until it all looks like kief. It will be somehat tough to remove, but with a little practice I learned to clear out 95% of the stuff from the grinder with a single circular swoop using the long flat edge of a book of matches.
The negative is that although I was finally successfull, I didn't really save any weed. I used mobyones advice and used about .5tsp of oil and added about a half gram of weed. I ended up adding almost another half gram to get the consistency correct (according to him) for a total of almost 1 gram of weed used. I simmered it, and the color didn't look right so we coked it a bunch more. My candy thermometer broke and I didn't keep good records so I have no clue what I did right. My wife and I split half of it, and after about three hours split the other half because we weren't satisfed. We smoked a couple of times and gave up but after almost six hours of waiting, we were the highest we'd been in years! But not a huge savings on the weed though.
I'm going to have to try to make the original recipe now that I've switched to the crock pot (~225F oil temperature when hot btw) for all my cooking needs, and report the results. And for everyone else; as soon as I can spare the time and buds, I plan on cooking four batches simultaneously for a set time. I'm thinking like 3.5-4 hours. Each seperate batch will have the same constant .5g in it- but I will do 1tsp of oil in one, .5tsp of oil in another... .25tsp... and .125tsp. I'll have to test one a night, and record my results as closely as I can, but I'm hoping to figure out the best cook time and the 'magic ratio' that will at least work for me...
-Mark
Hi veggi and welcome to the thread (I think),Quote:
Originally Posted by veggii
If the criticisms above are directed at the recipe forum in general, then I can understand (and can share) some of your frustration as to the amount of contradictory information contained within it. However, if you're referring to the contributions in this thread, then I must take issue with some of your your comments and the way you've expressed them.
As a chef, I would have expected you to have an appreciation and awareness of the temperature margins and variations that people using differing domestic ovens and crock pots are likely to encounter.
For example, the average oven set at 250 degrees F will vary quite dramatically depending on make, model, age, size and a whole host of other factors. A swing of 30 degrees F in either direction wouldn't be considered at all exceptional, but could well be the difference between a success or a failure.
One other point worth considering. Weed/hash (sadly) doesn't come packaged with a label indicating it's origin, sell by date or THC percentages (if only), so unfortunately we're in a position where the main ingredient used might contain anything from 5% to 25% THC. Therefore, two people might follow the same recipe, using the same techniques, even the same equipment, and still end up with wildly different results.
I'd re-check that figure, I think you'll find that the THC boils at 280 and above, but in actual fact the resin heads 'melt' from around 125 to 170 degrees F.Quote:
Originally Posted by veggii
I'd be interested to hear how you get on with the cannabutter you've made, and any other observations you have from a chefs perspective. Although it might be a better idea for you to start a separate thread though, as this ones predominately about making capsules and is pretty long already.
Cheers flame :thumbsup:
Hi again mspoffordQuote:
Originally Posted by mspofford032579
Glad to hear you're getting improved results. A crock pot is definitely the way forward. You can still get inconsistencies from model to model etc, but they're 'generally' more reliable from a temperature point of view than a regular oven.
I'm looking forward to reading how you get on with the other batches.
If you get the chance, keep a record of temps and times, and most importantly 'field reports' for the effects, type and duration of the high. Should be useful info all round.
Good work! :jointsmile:
The only coffee grinder I have is a burr grinder. Will that work, or is it going to be too hard to clean out?
i have a plant that is in the flowering stage. But the lower half of the plant has small leaves and branches. The leaves are curving under and some of the upper leaves are two. The leaves are green to dark green in color. there is no yellow leaves what do you think
EmoRebellion-
Glad to hear you're interested in trying this recipe. I'll warn you that there are a lot of variables involved here and there's a good possibility that you'll have problems before you have success, but if you can wait in there and stand to lose a little, you won't be disappointed. That said- I'm not exactly sure what burr grinder is, but from wat I can tell, they're quite large. It most likely will be difficult to clean out because you want to grind up your weed super fine. I can't stress that enough. You want to grind that weed up until it's DUST. If you can Identify it as weed pieces before you add it to your oil- it's not ground up enough. For that reason, if you use a huge grinder, you're going to spend forever cleaning every last morsel of that special dust out of it. My advice- buy one of these:
Linens 'n Things - Krups Coffee Grinder
It's the one I use myself. If you're obsessed with this thing working on the first try, then go with mobyone's advice, and use way less oil. Start with a small ramekin, or maybe a cut out section of a mini muffin tin, and put it in the bottom of your crock pot. Use half a teaspoonfull of oil or less, heat it up on high until it's melted, and add like a half gram of powdered weed. Keep adding weed until, like mobyone said, until there's enough oil to reach the top of the weed without being able to see a skim film of oil on top. Then cook that bad boy for 3-4 hours on high. Stir once or twice at even intervals. Once it's done, harden it in the fridge, and eat some pieces of it. If you did it right, about half of your 'cake' will get you more wasted than you've ever been. Once you get a taste of success you can start playing with your weed/oil ratio and cooking times/temps to get it right for you.
The biggest problem with evryone not having enough success with this thing, is that we all want to end up at the same concentration in our final product, whilst all using the same recipe, but we're all using different kinds of weed. The above described method should more or less guarantee that you'll get really high, but if you want to use this recipe to save weed, then you're going to have to undergo a substantial amount of research yourself. Everyone wants the same results from the same recipe with the same temperatures and cook times, but since we're not using the same grade ingredients, that's just not possible... I hope this helps...
-Mark
OK- So I've been having problems with this recipe from the start as some of you may know, and I've had some success as well. In order to better explain this to some others who may be confused, I came up with this analogy.
Making these capsules work can be compared to making yourself a cup of coffee in the morning. Just like you dissolve sugar into your coffee, you are trying to dissolve THC into your liquid oil. It's important to remember that this is only a PHYSICAL change and not a chemical reaction... Sure, the heat from the crock pot or oven or whatever may act as a catalyst to complete the curing process, and thereby complete some incomplete metabolism of the psychoactive components (of your weed) along the way, but for purposes of example, we're going to ignore that effect.
Secondly, it is important to understand why we use oil in the first place: Everything you eat first goes to your stomach. DUH. From there, solids go to the intestines, and liquids go to the liver. When you take one of these pills, you must not think of yourself as "eating" the THC, but rather "drinking" it. Since the melting point of coconut oil is 70F, your body heat is more than enough to melt it shortly after entry, so it's in liquid state and goes to the liver and not the colon. Remember, we're trying to get as much of the THC in your weed as possible to dissolve into the oil so that it goes to the liver ad NOT the intestines. If you read flames explanation, the reason is because the Liver not the stomach, small intestine, or colon, metabolizes the THC differently than the digestive track does, and actually does change the THC chemically. Marinol/dronabinnol works almost exactly the same way BTW, which is why it's not uncommon to see people who take it legitimately to either use less or claim they can't use it because it gets them too high, even though the dosing amount per pill is rather small. For that (the explanation about the liver) reason, you should consider any THC that doesn't dissolve in the oil to be wasted since it's not concentrated enough to have much effect at all once it goes to the intestines.
Getting back to the coffee cup analogy. When you make a cup of coffee, you can add sugar to it, but if you keep adding sugar to the coffee, you will reach a point where it doesn't matter how hot the coffee is, you simply can't melt any more sugar in the coffee- it'll just stay slushy at the bottom. Once you've reached this point it doesn't matter how much you stir or how hot you get your mix. It simply won't absorb any more sugar unless you add more coffee first. This is because you have reached the maximum point of solution, where the coffee physically can't absorb any more. By definition it is saturated.
If you think of the THC in the weed as the sugar, and the oil as the coffee, this is the point you want to arrive at: Oil at 100% saturation, so as to ensure every gram of oil contains as much activated THC as it possibly can, and at the same time, you want as little THC remaining possible left in the powdered weed, since the powdered weed will be digested and not metabolized by the liver, and can therefore be assumed as having the lowest contributing factor. Getting a standardized figure for exactly how much weed to use with how much oil is almost impossible because we're definitely not all using the same grade weed and most of us can't even get a bag of the same stuff twice in a row... Hash would be better for this recipe because it has a high THC content to begin with, but in my part of the country at least, it's almost impossible to find...
Anyway- the problem with reaching 100%THC saturation in your oil, without leaving lots of THC behind in your weed, is that you won't be able to tell when you've achieved these results by any physical means. Mobyone suggested using just enough oil to barely cover the weed, and the idea worked for me but I didn't save any weed. I'm guessing that I was able to saturate the oil I used 100% because there was plenty of wasted THC left behind in the powdered weed as well.This would explain why I still got REALLY high but didn't save much weed over smoking. The moral of the story here is that this recipe WILL work when executed with care and control, BUT in order to start seeing the 'savings' anyone serious enough to do this on a regular basis will have to do a substantial amount of tweaking to get the 'magic formula' for them.
Another physical phenomenon that no one in this thread has given any consideration to is the property known as 'diffusion.' Remember- the cooking portion of this exercise is PHYSICAL SCIENCE not chemistry. The chemistry which drives this thing takes place in your liver, not in the kitchen. Remember that. Anyway, diffusion refers to the natural tendency of things to transition from the point of greatest concentration to a state of concentration equilibrium on their own. Examples include:
Putting a drop of food coloring in a glass and not stirring it: the color will eventually mix itself
Leaving a jar of scented oil open on a counter top until the whole room smells (ever heard of a 'reed diffuser'?)
and so on...
So based on that physical property, there is bound to be some THC left in your weed no matter what because according to the properties of diffusion, the THC is in it's greatest concentration while it is in the ground plant material, and is 'diffusing' into the oil from the weed in order to reach a concentration equilibrium. By equilibrium what is meant is that if you sample a regulation amount of the mix, you should have he same potency of THC per weight, no matter whether you sample a section that is mostly oil, or has lots of powdered weed ground up in it. Or in other words, even if you could calculate exactly how many micrograms of THC you were starting with, and you were able to do the math and figure out how much oil to use in order to saturate that amount of oil 100% with that amount of THC, you still won' get the oil 100% saturated because some THC will need to stay in the weed in order to satisfy the rules of diffusion and reaching the so called equilibrium, where the concentration of THC throughout the homogeneous mix MUST be the same no matter which portion of the mix you sample. This SUCKS because some of the THC, by definition, HAS to stay trapped in the weed, where it will inevitably be wasted because it is digested and NOT metabolized by the liver where we want it to be.
In order to express this concept a little more clearly- imagine if weed was legal and Walgreen's was renamed Allgreens lol. So anyway you go down to your local pharmacy and buy a gram of this oil, which has already been saturated 100% with activated THC- with all the powdered weed removed. If you put that oil in a container in a crock pot, and added ground commercial HEMP (with NO THC content), and try to work this recipe in REVERSE you will probably slowly dissolve a small amount of your THC from the oil into the plant material in order to satisfy the rules of equilibrium- equal concentration THROUGHOUT a homogeneous mix. In theory, you could strain off the ground hemp material, dry it, smoke it, and get high. This is just an example for purposes of clarity to explain the physics at play here a little better, so don't try it. What I'm trying to say is that you'll never remove 100% of your THC from your weed, but you do need to figure out the point at which you're getting diminishing returns by adding more oil, and stop adding oil at THAT point.
Think of this like a teabag- you can make a cup of tea with it, but if you save it, you can make a second cup of weak tea because it's impossible to dissolve all of the tea components into the water because of equilibrium. The first cup of tea will be the strongest, but each cup brewed from the same bag thereafter will be logarithmically weaker than the previous cup. It's not a direct relation. I'm working on another theory that you can strain the weed particles back out of the oil and make a second batch from the same weed that will be as strong as the first batch by using less oil. Think of the teabag again- you can brew a strong cup of tea the first time, but you can make tea with the reused bag that's almost as strong as the original tea by using less water the second time... In order to do this with powdered weed, the project may require expensive sophisticated filtration equipment which would make the process impractical, but I'm hoping that understanding how it works will help everyone out in the first place... If there was a way to strain your ground wed back out of the oil without losing the oil, then re-cook the weed using 1/3 as much oil, I'd bet you could stretch your yields without much affect on potency, but technology does not allow us to perform that kind of filtration with any degree of efficiency so it'll have to stay a theory.
This whole project is best explained using the teabag analogy- you're trying to make the greatest quantity of the strongest tea possible from ONE teabag, but you don't know how potent the teabag is in the first place. I hope this helps others to understand what's going on here a little better, and doesn't serve to discourage or confuse. What I'm really trying to say is that anyone serious of this should experiment with a constant amount of the same weed, and a constant temperature and cook time, and vary the oil content to determine the ratio which will work for them. If you've read my other posts, I'm planning on doing this myself within the next month, but I'm strapped financially right now... Best of luck to those who are going to try this- don't give up! it's worth it in the end :) Also, if anyone here has a degree in chemistry or whatever and would care to clarify what I've said; my ears are wide open.
-Mark
Ok. Sorry to reply to my own post, but I'm not done here lol. I'm sorry I don't have any cool pictures to help captivate your attention but bear with me here- I think I'm on to something. My windows pc has a nasty trojan mcaffe can't seem to peel off and my windows pc also keeps thermally overheating...
My first batch was executed the same way mobyone suggested- with barely enough oil to cover my weed. It came out black and got me and my wife plenty high, but wasted about a gram of weed which equals no savings...
Based on my theory of solubility however, I made a second batch. This time I started the same mix I made before, but after the oil turned dark and all, I added about 30% more oil. The oil was dark green when it was finished, but not the same brown. In the end, the mix didn't get me as intensely high as before, but it did work, and it produced a different high. (same weed used for both batches btw) A more of a couch lock spacey quiet high as opposed to an intense head high. Also it seemed to spread out over a longer time period- probably because my liver was keeping up with the slow steady trickling release of a less dense dose over a longer period of time.
My theory is this- you can adjust the type of high your mix will produce, but you are also limited to how fast your liver can metabolize the psychoactive components of your mix. Think of it like trying to push water through a funnel. It's limited by the maximum flow of the funnel. The more watered down with oil and less concentrated overall your mix is, the less heady the high will be. I think this is because your liver doesn't somehow process the THC first or last, but rather as it arrives throughout the mix. My belief is that the intense head high is produced (obviously) by your brain being flooded by as much THC byproducts at once. Also, another variable nobody else considered is that the waiting period before you get high, how high you get, and how long the high will last are also affected by your own individual body metabolism, which is also affected by diet, exorcise, and whether or not they smoke cigarettes- that is, a morbidly obese individual will have to eat more and wait longer to get high because their metabolism is slower, but their high might last longer because a slow metabolism will take longer to burn off the THC byproducts. Inversely; A skinny person who can't seem to gain a pound no matter how much they eat, will have a higher metabolism. That person will probably need to eat less and wait less time to get RIPPED but because their metabolism is so fast, the resulting high probably won't last as long as it would for others...
What does this mean to you? Experiment on your own using your own methods and your equipment. Once you find the happy midway point that works for you, play with it to adjust the resulting high! Less oil should produce a more intense 'heady' type high with lots of activity, and take less time to kick in. On the other hand- adding more oil to your verified (control) recipe will cause your liver to slowly trickle its way through the same amount of THC, thereby never producing the overwhelming head high that others desire, and instead, dragging a 'decent buzz' out over the course of more hours... Add too much oil though, and your mix will be too diluted for your liver to process the ingredients fast enough to give you any high whatsoever... A good parallel would be if you smoked one bowl by yourself and got somewhat high for an hour or two, versus spending an hour or two smoking the whole bowl- you just won't get as high. Well... with this recipe, too much oil and you won't get high at all because the liver is more sensitive to this time factor.
Anyway, I'm pretty committed to this project, so as soon as I can I'm going to do as much 'research' (lol) as I can and post my findings. Until then- best of luck to everyone else in your quest to make counterfeit marinol!
CHEERS!
-Mark
Thanks for taking the time to write that up mspofford. It was very informative and gave me much to ponder. Especially since I picked up a few grams of some premium Lavevender kush hash. I wont make it for a few more weeks because I still have plenty left over from my first two batches. But after reading your write up I may tweak the recipe a bit and add some more oil. My first batch may be too strong because it knocks my wife and I out.
I would recomend using or purchasing a 'mortar and pestle' to grind that hash into a fine fine powder. I'm not entirely sure a coffee grinder would work for that. Also, unless you made capsules, you could try to re-heat a portion of your I would recomend using or purchasing a 'mortar and pestle' to grind that hash into a fine fine powder. I'm not entirely sure a coffee grinder would work for that. Also, unless you made capsules, you could try to re-heat a portion of your existing finished finished product and add a bit of oil. Try a sample size amount first so you don't ruin a batch. Don't worry about 'cooking' it too long either- my best batch was cooked a bunch of different ways/times for probably 10-12 hours total... I doubt cooking for extended periods after you've reached 'total saturation' makes any difference, but I bet the extra cook time sure as hell ensures you reach that point.
-M
Mark,
Excellent post. There are a couple errors on the liver-digestion process. First off everything goes through the intestines from there capillaries gather the broken down digested matierals and take it via the portal vein into the liver. That's why it takes so long to feel the effects the THC doesn't just need to get into the blood stream it needs to be filtered through the liver where it's stucture is changed slightly and then it hits the brain. Also the oil is needed because the human body can not digest and absorb all plant material but will readily absorb oil some easier then others and that is why you can get different results using different oils.
Emo,
A burr grinder would be a bitch to clean! You want a regular coffee grinder that you can get into so you can scrape out what sticks to the sides and it will stick. Mr. Coffee makes one that is less then $20 I got mine at Walmart it has a "cleaning system" that helps with the scraping.
Thanks for the feedback lunarose. Have you tried this with any other oils? Flameon says ghee or coconut oil are best... Any suggestions for other oils which are different or better? How would you describe the results from different oils. Is it just not as high, or do different oils produce different highs?Quote:
Originally Posted by lunarose
-Mark (not really mark hehe)
Hi,
I have tried both olive oil and cocconut oil and really did not notice a difference. Right now I use a mixture of the two. I think oils with saturated and unsaturated fats plus triglycerides are best. I have also used the oils that Cannabrex(sp?) makes especially for making the capsules and I didn't notice any difference with that either. Of course each batch was made with different strains so...... I would have to grow a good size single crop and then try different oils.......all in the name of science of course(G)
I was thinking about what you wrote about solubility and have an idea for an experiment I want to try based on your tea bag analogy. I am thinking of making a small batch using double to oil. After cooking it for two hours I'll drain off as much of the oil as I can and use a syringe to fill the caps with just the oil. Then add the "regular" amount of oil to get the "regular" consistancy re-cook it and encapsulate that.
I made a new batch last night which I'll be trying tonight with a great slow cooker I just bought. It isn't your typical crockpot with a timer and "low, high and Warm" temp settings it has instead a knob with warm and then exact temps at 50 degree intervals between 200 - 400 F. No timer but that isn't important to me because I usually end up sitting there watching the clock and staring at the cooker(G). Anyway the batch I made I had the cooker set at 250 and preheated it (it has a pilot light that tells you when its reached its temp) let it cook for 2 1/2 hours then unplugged it and left it in the cooker to cool. I double checked the temp with a candy thermometer and it was spot on 250. And it was only $25 at Walmart!
Hi, I've been watching this great thread evolve and have sat back and said nothing. Thanks to Flameon and weedhound and everyone else involved in this thread.. you have changed my world!
This worked for me first time, this is how I did mine.
12 grams of dryed and cured / de-stemmed bc hasplant/grimm (AKA Bigfoot). I ran the buds through a strainer to get rid of ALL the wood, then I put the strained bud in an oven preheated to around 300f for about 5 min just to get rid of any residual moisture that was in it.(no other reason). I then put the 12 grams into an electric coffee grinder and made it into the finest powder possible ( still weighing 12 grams). Most of the powder will come out easily if the weed is properly dry. Got out the slow cooker and preheated 56grams of coconut oil to 80c-85c (low) in a soup bowl, dropped in the powdered bud and gave it a stir. The oil immediatly turned dark green like it was food dye and it looked like most of the powder actually dissolved. I watched the temps for 2 hours not letting it get above 90c, stirring again at 1 hour in. Then I turned the crock up to high and stirred it and left it to fluctuate between 226 f and 228, mixture temp. At this point the smell even smelled right. On the lower temp it smelled like faint coconut but now it was a coconutty / hashy sort of makes you want to eat it smell. At one point it briefly reached 230f ish and now the smell was a hint of a burning. I will always judge the temps with smell now as well as with the thermometer. Anyways cooked at 226 for 1 hr (very slightly bubbling), stirred then cooked at same for another 1 hr 15min, switched the crock off, stirred really well (now looks a hashy brown but no obvious residue in the mix). I then left the thermometer in and waited until it cooled to about 50c, took a 100ml siringe (big bastard with no needle that the nozzle happens to be about the same size as the end of a 00 capsule) and whilst stirring with the siringe, sucked up the whole mixture. There was a bit of residue on the bottom of the bowl but with the quick stirring and sucking at the same time with the siringe, every drop was sucked up :thumbsup:. Now the tricky part is to fill the capsules up right? :wtf:
With the siringe just warm to the touch (mixture still liquid just press on the plunger gently and a bit of residue along with mostly oil will drip into each capsule (about 10 drips to fill a 00). I used a cigarette package with some holes (10) I made with a pen, in it. It worked ok but have now ordered a holder. I Made 10 put them in the fridge, made another 10 ect.
I got 70 full capsules in total form 12 grams of really good quality, dry gear.
Yesterday I did the test.. 1 capsule at 1pm had a good buzz after 1.5 to 2hrs then at 3pm took another. 2hrs later i'm really high by now and at 5pm I took number 3. By 8pm I am almost too high and a bit of paranoia set in but I had some food and closed my eyes for half an hour and was great after that. It is now 1:15 AM and I am still really high now!
Next time I will use a bit more oil because these really are a bit too strong. I have been smoking about 2 grams of this same weed everyday for about 3 months and I thought that I had a high tolerance to it but this is a whole different ballgame!!! :stoned:
I think that making a decent size batch will help people having trouble keep their temps more constant. Also the powdered weed is a must. The mix didn't look like it had any residue and certainly no visible weed in it during the process until i sucked it up with the siringe and even that went up the hole without any real hassle.
Finally, use the best quality weed you can get, the more tricomes (crystals) the better cuz that what getz u high.
Good luck everyone!
Thanks again all and good night!
ps with a ml marked siringe like i used, you can judge how many capsules you will get as well because about .9ml fills 1 -00 capsule.
Subzero. :D
yeah I read somewhere that at 230 F plant matter starts to burn.
and then supposedly decarboxylation happens at 224 F (?) or something. so I figured best bet is between 224 and 229 (just to make sure).
I still haven't really made for sure yet. I want to make a batch at 225, and another at 212 just to test if 212 works. but I've got my hopes on 225.
what sux tho is that using my oven its kinda hard to keep it at 225, it either goes too low or too high, and I want it exactly at 225. maybe if I found a crockpot which keeps it at 225 no more no less...
regards