Feminism (male input welcomed)

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Originally Posted by Polymirize

What kind of ethics? You seem to be arguing from a justice based view. Which is basically like saying, you stay out of my way, and I'll stay out of yours. It completely ignores the factors at work in society. Also, its subject to feminist critique.
Nothing so complicated. Just small talk, and behavior on message correspondences.

Some good feminists recognise that we can't all live according to justice ethics. If a mother was to take this approach with her child, one of "you stay out of my way and I'll stay out of yours", the child dies of starvation. So it opens the doors to feminist moral theory. Which is basically a form of care ethics.
It's not feminist derived per say. I'd say that the buddhist ideal of compassion is the same thing. ideally that is.
I've heard it said that Compassion is the highest manifestation of Justice. May have been Krishnamurti, or Gibran... not really important though.

So, in this light... why are you so threatened to allow women to push for equal standing?
I am more than happy with "equal standing" - it's the extremes that I worry about.
Or, rather, why are you threatened to allow for anyone to strive for equal standing?
I never said that they shouldn't be equal, but they have a large amount of money (in our economy), jobs, property, the right to vote, a longer life span than men, usually get child custody and child-care in the case of divorce, don't have to serve in the military, and many other benefits and rights.

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As far as "compassion", I'm one of the most compassionate people around - but I believe in self-reliance as well. Compassion should go to those that deserve it - not people that are wasting your time.

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Originally Posted by slowlickitysplit

Wow. Mrs. GJ where's the love? Did i fertilize your garden? Why you jump on me? And Demeter; Negative reps? Why? because we disagree? Now I understand the pink Floyd song "We don't need no education" Better. Sure glad you're not coercing. uh, teaching my sons. Nice reasoning skills ladies!

Why do you want the right to vote? Just cause we have it? Voter appathy is at an all time high. You got the right but don't use it. We men no longer feel sole responsability for the course of our nation so why bother? Yes, that was tounge in cheek.

Wish I was enlightened enough to end this with a signature tha delt with your anatomy too. Unfortunately, my MOTHER taught me better.

- Slow -

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No, slow, your premise is off. I do not give bad rep to someone who disagrees with me any more than I give a bad grade to a student who disagrees with me. I tell my students that if they can make a cogent, well-informed argument in favor of any philosophical stance, then they will receive a good grade. However, if they present an opinion based on sloppy reasoning and scant evidence, they will have earned the D or F that I give them, as did you.

Likewise, if someone on this site makes a post that is insightful and intelligent, I give reps. Isn't that the point of the rep system?

^sure is!

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Originally Posted by Polymirize

In the end, my thoughts on the necessity of equality have nothing to do with how women think they should act, but everything to do with how I think a man actually should.

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I am posting out of sequence here, because I just had to say this is quoteworthy as all get out.

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Originally Posted by Breukelen advocaat

We await this momentous decision with baited breath.

:thumbsup:

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Who's we? You got a mouse in your capri pockets?

i think he was mocking me...but whatever...

Demeter, in another forum you wrote "I wrote some disgustingly violent poems about ripping men's heads like lettuce..."
'nough said!

For the rest of you. Please, if any of you could explain to me what I did to deserve your wrath I will do my best to maintain an open mind. Seriously.....educate me. Mold my mind. Inform me.

- Slow -

^^As if you have never thought about murdering a woman! We have all had violent thoughts about the opposite sex at one time or another...so that's a very unfair thing to bring up, Slow.

And I told you why you upset us. You blame women for: child problems (we arent there to look after them so they end up messed up), the "decline" of America, our lavish lifestyles... You insinuated America would be a better place if we just stayed at home, and finally you have brought up gender stereotypes and played them off as fact. Like I said earlier, I'm sure you didn't realize the extent of our 'discontent'... but there it is. Don't try to deny it either, if you were in our shoes you would understand the insult you have inflicted upon us.

Dutchlover,
This was my original post ...
I would love to have this discussion in person becasue i speak much better then I type but...

I graduated HS in 1978 so I know of radical feminisim. I lost a quarter to my radical cousin on the Billy Jean/Bobby Rigs tennis match. Billionfold opened an interesting point but didn't follow through....

Pre-Feminisim a man could support his family on one income but, along came feminisim and the liberal wife next door got a part time job and they could suddenly afford a nicer vacation/car/education for the kids ect.. Well, if she can I can...suddenly all the women are working and you're living in an upscale neighborhood and two incomes is the norm....then, suddenly....it is a necessity.

I hate to be the devils advocate (Ok - not really true) but I think America started it's great decline the day they gave women the vote. I am not a neaderthal, this is simply my informed opinion.

PS.
I heard a story about a woman yelling at a guy for holding the door for her:
"You don't have to hold the door for me because I'm a woman!" she said.

"I'm not. I'm holding the door for you because I'm a gentelman." He repied.

Things that make you go Hmmm.

- Slow -
I don't blame women for anything. I am simply suggesting that feminisim and womens lib brought about unforsene consequences. Perhaps it is a MISinformed opinion to your way of thinking. None of which explains the rancor. I did suggest America MIGHT be a better place if the feminist reveloution had never happened. I was hoping to open a discussion. This is not something I believe! It is something I was hoping to explore with some open minded women.

I tried to listen to you with an open mind Dutchlover but I think you have made some wrong assumptions and read more into my posts then were there.

- Slow -

I tried to edit my last post but I took too long. After more consideration this is what i tried to post. Ignore the first one please..



Dutchlover,
This was my original post ...
I would love to have this discussion in person becasue i speak much better then I type but...

I graduated HS in 1978 so I know of radical feminisim. I lost a quarter to my radical cousin on the Billy Jean/Bobby Rigs tennis match. Billionfold opened an interesting point but didn't follow through....

Pre-Feminisim a man could support his family on one income but, along came feminisim and the liberal wife next door got a part time job and they could suddenly afford a nicer vacation/car/education for the kids ect.. Well, if she can I can...suddenly all the women are working and you're living in an upscale neighborhood and two incomes is the norm....then, suddenly....it is a necessity.

I hate to be the devils advocate (Ok - not really true) but I think America started it's great decline the day they gave women the vote. I am not a neaderthal, this is simply my informed opinion.

PS.
I heard a story about a woman yelling at a guy for holding the door for her:
"You don't have to hold the door for me because I'm a woman!" she said.

"I'm not. I'm holding the door for you because I'm a gentelman." He repied.

Things that make you go Hmmm.

- Slow -
I don't blame women for anything. I am simply suggesting that feminisim and womens lib brought about unforsene consequences. Perhaps it is a MISinformed opinion to your way of thinking. None of which explains the rancor. I did suggest America MIGHT be a better place if the feminist reveloution had never happened. I was hoping to open a discussion. I have always felt that the moral decline in our country is directly tied to the changes in the family dynamic brought about by feminisim. I was honestly hoping some of you well educated women would be able to throw out some facts to convince me I am wrong. I am bothered by my own conclusions. It seems too simple and obvious but I can come to no other conclusion on my own.

I tried to listen to you with an open mind Dutchlover but I think you have made some wrong assumptions and read more into my posts then were there.

- Slow -


I just re-read what you said Dutchlover and my response. I will keep it here for you to see but I think I am begining to see where your comming from and how I angered some members here. I suppose i could have presented my beliefes in a more gentle way but I have to say, none of you have done a thing to change my mind. I do still blame a lot of societies woes on feminisim. I still see a connection between the womans rights movement and the moral decline of America. I also think you (feminists) traded in your bondage to family for financial bondage.

Just my opinion.

- Slow -