Emmies Grow Log - White Widow
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch Pimp
:postgood:
Thanks DP! I learned a bit more reading through that. Fascinating stuff here. WW might be correct in his opinion that it is a bit early to be "showing" just yet and Mandala's site taught me that given stress, a female plant can pop off a male part or two... hmmmm
could this be what is happening on our runt? Could (she) have been impersonating a he, and actually is a she? Seeing no other signs of sex yet other than these two random male parts, maybe it is a bit early yet to be for sure. I am becoming more sure about 1 and 2 who both seem to be doing a whole lot of whatever it is they are doing... #4 seems like a sort of anomaly compared to them. And then there is #3 who seems to be shy... and still isn't being very declarative regarding sex, further adding credence to what WW says about it being a bit early.
This is fun! --Emmie
Emmies Grow Log - White Widow
I got a new toy from the FedEx man today. See if you can figure out what it was.
Today we have some sex shots. Its time to clear up the mystery on 1, 2 and our star... the yet to be identified, runt - #4.
Lets start with a picture of him from a new angle.
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/e...ng-parts-1.jpg
and more convincingly, look at what he is sporting now in the upper node
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/e...ng-parts-2.jpg
So, I think its pretty certain now. The runt is a boy.
Speaking of bad boys... lets look at our first star, #1... the fastest grower and the cutest bright green all over. I think when he was young WW said he was very sure about this one. Lets look at some of his top growth. I'm more convinced by the hour that this one is another healthy boy.
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/e...s-clusters.jpg
Now lets look at my personal favorite, #2. Always she was right behind #1 in growth and appearance. But lately, I have noticed a bit of a difference here. See if you can see it. ;) That's a double pistil... she has a couple of single ones down lower. It's a girl folks!
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/e...en-spotted.jpg
I haven't been able to get in and interrogate #3 yet. There is not much to see yet, maybe a bit of growth similar to what we see on #1 starting... another few days will tell.
By the way... Kudos to FedEx. 9 inches of snow last night and he still made it almost all the way to the door. I was impressed.
Emmie
Emmies Grow Log - White Widow
Your family looks good! :thumbsup: Tough luck with all the males, the one almost looks like a hermie :wtf:
Clone your girl when she's big enough for sure! :greenthumb:
P.S.
FedEx Sux! :p (only because I drive for Big Brown ;) ) 9" what a wuss I was doin the same thing last night.... Cake walk, should have been here in colorado for the "Christmas Blizzard" a couple years ago,.... Like 2 feet in the first one,.. then another a week later,.... then another like 2 weeks after that! :eek: The ice was almost a foot thick in some of the neighborhoods on my route. Several times I spent HOURS digging that truck out WITH full chains on! :o
Ok,.. Rant off, sorry :o
Emmies Grow Log - White Widow
This morning before I head off to school I will let you see what I am seeing on #3. It isn't much, but it is enough to strongly indicate that this one is also a boy. We will keep watching, but please note the stamen flower sitting on its own little stalk there.
By the way, this is almost a total proof that the early sexing method offered to us by WashougalWonder works! I will be watching as more growers attempt to prove this theory.
Have a great day everyone!
Emmie
Emmies Grow Log - White Widow
What a fascinating result with the sexing. Next time I get some seeds I'll be sure to watch them grow with WW's theory in mind, I think it offers very exciting possibilities for early sexing. It sure has added an extra interesting dimension to your log Emmie.
Canni how would you feel about moving to the Netherlands?! Could do with you here. I've been waiting all week for my lights to come from a city only 2 hours away - and there's no damn ice in the way either. So much for one day delivery grrr.
Emmies Grow Log - White Widow
Hmmm...I think I have a couple of issues, so what the heck...I might as well get 'em off my chest. :thumbsup:
If the seed-sexing theory is right, this implies that sex is pre-determined.
And if you can stress a female seedling into being male, why don't more newbies suffer from 'over-abundance of males' syndrome'? But, I'm not all that certain the seed-sexing thing is on track anyway.
Granted, I have not tried the technique, but am of the opinion it's likely not reliable. Mainly because during formation, seeds can get squeezed together, pulled, pushed, tugged-on...which can and will distort the attachment point for each seed. I've had seeds long and thin, round and plump, round with a dent or two, almost 'cresent moon' shaped...all from the same strains. Any distortion of the shell does impact the attachment point structure.
And having femmed seeds a few times, (and I still do on occasion) I have never stressed a female into being a male. I've stressed a female to provide pollen sacks, (become hermaphrodite on command) and after harvest I've re-vegged a forced hermaphrodite back into 'normal' female re-growth, but never has stress switched a cannabis plant's sex, in my garden. Since I doubt you change the (sex determing) chromosomes through stress, a sudden and wholesale sex change is unlikely, and nobody has added chemicals to the discussion.
Beware of strains with past or present 'purple' genetics when using the color-coded seedling-sexing, as the normal coloring of the seedling might skew results.
I'm guessing that cooler growroom enviornments might skew coloring, too.
As I previously stated, I haven't tried the seed-sexing. But it just didn't sound right when I first heard it a few years back, and I still have doubts.
Emmies Grow Log - White Widow
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Trichome
Hmmm...I think I have a couple of issues, so what the heck...I might as well get 'em off my chest. :thumbsup:
If the seed-sexing theory is right, this implies that sex is pre-determined.
And if you can stress a female seedling into being male, why don't more newbies suffer from 'over-abundance of males' syndrome'? But, I'm not all that certain the seed-sexing thing is on track anyway.
Granted, I have not tried the technique, but am of the opinion it's likely not reliable. Mainly because during formation, seeds can get squeezed together, pulled, pushed, tugged-on...which can and will distort the attachment point for each seed. I've had seeds long and thin, round and plump, round with a dent or two, almost 'cresent moon' shaped...all from the same strains. Any distortion of the shell does impact the attachment point structure.
And having femmed seeds a few times, (and I still do on occasion) I have never stressed a female into being a male. I've stressed a female to provide pollen sacks, (become hermaphrodite on command) and after harvest I've re-vegged a forced hermaphrodite back into 'normal' female re-growth, but never has stress switched a cannabis plant's sex, in my garden. Since I doubt you change the (sex determing) chromosomes through stress, a sudden and wholesale sex change is unlikely, and nobody has added chemicals to the discussion.
Beware of strains with past or present 'purple' genetics when using the color-coded seedling-sexing, as the normal coloring of the seedling might skew results.
I'm guessing that cooler growroom enviornments might skew coloring, too.
As I previously stated, I haven't tried the seed-sexing. But it just didn't sound right when I first heard it a few years back, and I still have doubts.
just to clear up any confusion...
I did not use the seed shape or examination of the stalk hole (volcano or slit) to determine sex here.
All I used was on day 6, making a guess as to sex based on the color of the stalks and petioles of the seedlings. :rastabanna:
Further experimentation is now needed to see if this method actually got us a 100% identification. The question has to do with #4. According to WW's theory, #4 was the one who exhibited the strongest indicator at day 6 of being female. He was however stunted all of his life and I strongly believe that it was this stress that caused him to become a male. We have referred to him all along as "the runt." There are plenty of opinions out there that stress can and will cause a higher percentage of males in a population. If this is what happened, then clones of #4 grown correctly will not be males and we will have proven that the early sexing method at least in this case resulted in 100% identification. It will also show that sex can change overall because of stress. I will be taking clones to attempt to prove this very soon. You have me very curious now Rusty about this and how total of a transformation can be made by a plant because of stress, but I agree that on a chromosome level, if she started as a female, #4 would still be a female although exhibiting male characteristics... and if so, she/he has just become a very valuable plant. It would be fascinating to get him to change again after harvest and revegging and make him go female next round, but I am going to save that for another experimenter. Who knows? Cloning may prove that #4 was a male all along. In a couple of months, if I have any shred of scientist in me, we will know what happened here.
The exciting thing here for me as a new grower is the situation I now find myself in. If I have a switched female and he is now producing pollen, and I then take that pollen back to my mother and produce seeds, does this not produce feminized seeds? Talk about turning a negative into a positive!:thumbsup:
Emmie
Emmies Grow Log - White Widow
Figured I'd throw the seed-sexing thing as a bonus, since they are both yet-unproven techniques mentioned in this thread.
Kudo's to WW for thinking outside the box though.
I'm fairly confident that genetic expression of sex is likely pre-determined at the moment of pollination. (that's how we know the femmed seeds have to be female, no?)
No matter what the stressor, (unless chemical) you are not likely to change the chromosomes (which control sexual expression) through overwatering, overfeeding, cooling, heating...
Make a hermaphrodite...sure. Actually change sexes...? I don't think so.
A (verified and confirmed) female can be stressed to produce male-type flowers. Some call them male nanners, but this is wrong. They are female nanners. (nanners on a female plant) There are no male chromosomes in the pollen. Any female plant you pollinate with this pollen will have femmed seeds. This means the offspring from that pollen will all be 100% female. The lady plant you get the pollen from hasn't switched sexes, she's altered her 'genetic sexual expression' as a result of the stress. (being an annual, it's a survival technique cannabis uses to assure the continuing of the species)
I think you're putting the cart before the horse though. Learn to grow, THEN learn to breed. :thumbsup:
Emmies Grow Log - White Widow
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Trichome
I think you're putting the cart before the horse though. Learn to grow, THEN learn to breed.
I tried to let this drop, but as the day drags on here this comment just keeps demanding that I respond:
I assumed that was what I was doing here, learning to grow... excuse me for allowing myself to think that I might be able to learn a few more advanced things before my time. :mad:
A cart with no horse indeed? It seems that for me to keep growing I need to learn to clone and make seeds since I can't afford to keep buying seeds from other people. I guess since I am a newbie I have to allow you to chide me for discussing genetics and the possibilities of feminized seeds resulting from my work here, but I certainly don't have to like it. You don't know me very well, but I will let you in on a secret... I am capable of learning quite a few things, all at the same time. I am also going to never be shy about asking a question to help me do this.
I value the experience and knowledge you bring to this table, but please never tell me what questions I am allowed to ask.
Emmie
Emmies Grow Log - White Widow
Quote:
Originally Posted by emilya
I tried to let this drop, but as the day drags on here this comment just keeps demanding that I respond:
I assumed that was what I was doing here, learning to grow... excuse me for allowing myself to think that I might be able to learn a few more advanced things before my time. :mad:
A cart with no horse indeed? It seems that for me to keep growing I need to learn to clone and make seeds since I can't afford to keep buying seeds from other people. I guess since I am a newbie I have to allow you to chide me for discussing genetics and the possibilities of feminized seeds resulting from my work here, but I certainly don't have to like it. You don't know me very well, but I will let you in on a secret... I am capable of learning quite a few things, all at the same time. I am also going to never be shy about asking a question to help me do this.
I value the experience and knowledge you bring to this table, but please never tell me what questions I am allowed to ask.
Emmie
Not many lady growers, and the only bad question is the one unasked. :thumbsup:
