MY 90watt led ufo tri ban
Whats up guys...
First of all.. Every grow ive used my 90w ufo on... wether it was primary light or sidelighting... I always get what I guess can be called light burn. The fan leaves directly under the UFO brown up and die. This only happens when I have it close. 3-4" I would guess..
Its not heat or anything else. Ive even posted about it before but had no replies.
Oh and weezard... ive bleached my tops with my 90w UFO. Got pics too! The UFO was several inches above the tops and it still bleached.
:stoned:
MY 90watt led ufo tri ban
I'm not trying to dispute the fact that it's done, I too have seen the effects in others grow logs. It may have some thing to do with strain as well (doesn't everything). I only say this because I just had a fully mature Church plant that was harvested under 150w of 3w diodes, and no ill effects whatsoever. The tip of the cola was about 2" away from the LED panel.
I obviously have some hardcore reading to do, I'm not claiming at all to be educated when it comes to this topic. I can only speak of my own experience, and out of the dozen or so strains I have had my hands on, light has never had an ill effect, HPS, MH, or LED.
I'm wondering if this may manifest itself as a combination of issues, maybe an underfed plant would be more prone because of metabolism being slowed from little food. Something to that effect. Speculation at best, but I'm off to do some research. Hopefully I'll find something interesting.
MY 90watt led ufo tri ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by GetThisOrDie
Whats up guys...
First of all.. Every grow ive used my 90w ufo on... wether it was primary light or sidelighting... I always get what I guess can be called light burn. The fan leaves directly under the UFO brown up and die. This only happens when I have it close. 3-4" I would guess..
Its not heat or anything else. Ive even posted about it before but had no replies.
Oh and weezard... ive bleached my tops with my 90w UFO. Got pics too!
V. cool! let's see 'em.:cool:
I'm a bit confused by the term "brown up and die"
Light bleached leaves are white and papery.
[attachment=o250299]
Brown sounds like somethin' else entirely.
So, pictures please.
The UFO was several inches above the tops and it still bleached.
:stoned:
Aloha,
Weeze
MY 90watt led ufo tri ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by irydyum
Now you are just pulling numbers and theory out of your ass. The sun puts out 30k lumens, cmon now. Per what, square inch, square foot, square mile, what?
Maybe it's heat burning the tops of your girls? 95 degrees has the capability to do that, especially if your canopy temp is higher. Why do you think mylar blankets are used for emergencies? The reflective side has the ability to reflect heat also, thus keeping us warm inside them. Maybe that's why the edges are browned too?
This is my problem with this claim of "light burn". The only time I hear people complain of it is when there are 3 other variables in their grow that are fucked up. It's never on a dialed in healthy grow that someone gets "light burn", or "light lockout" or any light issues for that matter. It sounds to me like many cases of poor troubleshooting.
mylar is to reflect light not heat thats why growers dont use alumium foil it creats hot spots.
its real simple iridum get you a lumes meter and the sunnest day go out side and test it your self . bought mine off ebay. 95 is at the canapy why would i give you temps at the roots ? weezard is right 91k max and even then my girls feel it. now go and grow your own to find out and if your not willing to take what the growers that have did the expermentings word then why are you even asking.
MY 90watt led ufo tri ban
If you don't think mylar reflects heat you are ignoring fact.
Lumens is not how plants see light, you would need a PAR meter to get a reading of what your plant sees as photosynthetic energy. That's plainly spelled out in the link Weez provided, did you by chance read it?
Weezard shut me up already. I can't argue that "light burn" or "bleaching" happens when he posted a picture for proof. Nor am I trying to. I'm saying that if people are having an issue with their plants processing artificial light, that it probably is a combination of things rather than just too much light.
Notice how Weez thought it peculiar right away when he read the symptoms of this guys problem? Likely not from too much light, at least not on it's own. From everything I have seen and read it turns leaves white in spots. It doesn't fry them off like nute or heat burn.
Let me say again, I'm not arguing with the principle of a saturation point for light in plants. I just don't feel it's should be an accepted diagnosis until everything else is ruled out. I have seen quite a few people talking about this, but the only really good example of it I have come across on here is the one Weez just put up. Most of the others don't look like that. Hell I've even seen someone recently post they overlit their plant with CFL. I didn't post there because it seemed ludicrous to me. You all seemed a much better bunch to hash it over with.
MY 90watt led ufo tri ban
Well weez... They get like crispy amd damaged. But only the ones directly under the LED light. I will have to wait until tonight when my lights turn back on to get a pic of the damage BUT i do have the pics of bleaching buds from the UFO.
Also have another pic I found on here from someones scrog grow that got bleached... looks crazy so I saved it.
:stoned:
pic 1 - someones bleached scrog
pic 2 - closeup of one of my bleached UFO buds.
pic 3 - is the two buds that got bleached. They were the two closest to the ufo.. maybe 5" away. It wasnt that close at all which surprised me. I had no idea what it was until I did some research.
Thats also an interesting theory Iry... about there maybe being underlying causes for the bleaching or "uv damage" like an under fed plant... must do more reading but my eyes hurt.
MY 90watt led ufo tri ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by GetThisOrDie
Well weez... They get like crispy amd damaged. But only the ones directly under the LED light. I will have to wait until tonight when my lights turn back on to get a pic of the damage BUT i do have the pics of bleaching buds from the UFO.
Also have another pic I found on here from someones scrog grow that got bleached... looks crazy so I saved it.
:stoned:
pic 1 - someones bleached scrog
pic 2 - closeup of one of my bleached UFO buds.
pic 3 - is the two buds that got bleached. They were the two closest to the ufo.. maybe 5" away. It wasnt that close at all which surprised me. I had no idea what it was until I did some research.
Thats also an interesting theory Iry... about there maybe being underlying causes for the bleaching or "uv damage" like an under fed plant... must do more reading but my eyes hurt.
Mahalo Gtod.:thumbsup:
I have seen that weirdness before.
Don't really know what it is, but it's quite different from light bleaching.
You'll note that the demarcation is sharp and well defined.
Light bleach has a more gradual transition and it usually affects the leaf surface as well as the bud tips.
That may be heat related, which is after all, just another form of EMR.
Longer wavelength, less energetic, but EMR all da same.
Heat rises, and still air can create thermoclines indoors.
There may be a temperature tipping point where chlorophyll can no longer be synthesized.
That is my best guess, but I do not actually know.:(
"I'm wondering if this may manifest itself as a combination of issues, maybe an underfed plant would be more prone because of metabolism being slowed from little food. Something to that effect. Speculation at best, but I'm off to do some research. Hopefully I'll find something interesting. " -Irydyum
Good call Irydyum.
Find anything yet?
I came up with a very odd effect that occurs on lower leaf as well.
Can't find da picture but it looks like a genetic hiccup in chlorophyll production.
Half the leaf appears normal and the rest is normal, but colorless, almost snow-white.
The transition is abrupt. And the demarcation is straight line and razor sharp.
I'll see if I can dig up da picture.
Dang! I hate not knowing.
He'p! Somebody, he'p!
Aloha,
Weezard
MY 90watt led ufo tri ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by irydyum
If you don't think mylar reflects heat you are ignoring fact.
Lumens is not how plants see light, you would need a PAR meter to get a reading of what your plant sees as photosynthetic energy. That's plainly spelled out in the link Weez provided, did you by chance read it?
Weezard shut me up already. I can't argue that "light burn" or "bleaching" happens when he posted a picture for proof. Nor am I trying to. I'm saying that if people are having an issue with their plants processing artificial light, that it probably is a combination of things rather than just too much light.
Notice how Weez thought it peculiar right away when he read the symptoms of this guys problem? Likely not from too much light, at least not on it's own. From everything I have seen and read it turns leaves white in spots. It doesn't fry them off like nute or heat burn.
Let me say again, I'm not arguing with the principle of a saturation point for light in plants. I just don't feel it's should be an accepted diagnosis until everything else is ruled out. I have seen quite a few people talking about this, but the only really good example of it I have come across on here is the one Weez just put up. Most of the others don't look like that. Hell I've even seen someone recently post they overlit their plant with CFL. I didn't post there because it seemed ludicrous to me. You all seemed a much better bunch to hash it over with.
THAT IS DEFINATLY TRUE ABOUT CFLS. THERE WOULD NOT BE ENOUGH ROOM TO GET ENOUGH OF THEM THAT CLOSE TO A PLANT. MY GIRLS HAVE PRESSED AGIANST CFL FOR DAYS DEFORE THE EVEN SHOWED HEAT STRESS.
MY 90watt led ufo tri ban
I can find lots of papers on Photosynthetic Saturation, Photosynthetic Rates, and many others as they relate to c3 plants. I spent an hour or so yesterday reading them, unfortunately I didn't bookmark them, I'll be looking again today.
The only common theme I can find so far, (that I can deduce from papers written with university speak) is that there are many factors which calculate into what would be considered the saturation point for light in a given plant species. Among them are the things which all cultivators are familiar with. Food, CO2, and Water. The levels of all 3 seem to play a part along with genetics in determining how much photosynthesis can take place.
I can't find much citing specific examples of damage resulting from the oversaturation, most simply seem to claim that it is a point of diminishing return. One abstract did point to oxidation as a culprit for damage, but I didn't really understand the science behind it.
I'm still hunting:rambohead:
BTW Weez, I have seen what you describe with the razor sharp demaceration line as well. I saw it in person on one of Headshake's plants from a past grow. I know he has pics of it too, so I'll see if I can find some. At that point everyone attributed it to genetics, claiming albinoism. That leaf stayed intact for quite some time too from what I remember.
