Printable View
religion was and still is the best symbol to apply to as yet unknown things that are not just beyond us but in some ways 'greater' than us.. unless science prefers "I DONT KNOW". :) In any case I find myself in agreement to both.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ubalubus
Peace,
denial
I don't know, is better than superstition because it's honest and doesn't substitute facts and informed theory for mythology.
Wisdom begins at I don't know.. wisdom ends there too? I don't know!Quote:
Originally Posted by 5thHorseMan
Please though, it's important not to mistake superstition or belief for symbology. Symbology is something that is real that exists in human culture and has done for 10's of thousands of years, like music, for some reason we require it.
I've noted that often, when human beings don't understand a concept or idea it'll be drawn as a symbol as its known in religion, also known as a model in science one is tested the other is not..
The two seem mutually exclusive, but they aren't necessarily, when you look at it informatically :) What I think I'm trying to say is when dealing with something you don't know about , or when calling something "everything" or "infinite" the model or symbol word God is used.
Anyone who thinks they know what God is or isn't is a damn right liar :) Thats WHY symbolism was created, and probably why science was ;-) heheh
admittedly, all this is based on the premise everyone sees reality different. Which at least on cannabis.com seems to be the case,
Peace,
Denial
religion insists it has all the answers when in fact it knows less than science.If we simply substituted god for all the things we don't or didn't know, we'd still believe that we were the center of the universe. Religion is a belief and science is a process, so while religion is stagnant and unchanging, science is viral and in constant flux, growing and altering itself with the understanding of it's practitioners.
Who needs symbols that are at best a pale and inaccurate and largely uninformed reflection of reality, when you can have empirical evidence.
God as it were is ever shrinking, existing in the ever smaller margins where science has yet to explore, and question it's relevance.
I agree.. but I'm specifically talking about God here, not what "religion" thinks as a whole, I like to concentrate on the abstractions and informatics, systemology.. when it comes to "God" its the same as expressing 'infinite' it's not a "Real" number to our 'unreal' minds. Maybe that makes it special, maybe it doesn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by 5thHorseMan
I was suggesting that no person be it you, me or anyone else, lives in the same reality, and that in fact everyone is really inside their own little world, to a greater or lesser extent. As such I feel unreal numbers or unreal ideas hold a special meaning to people so obsessed about their own unrealities.....
All I know is that constants hold an important place in my mind and God <-> infinity seem to be equivocally aggreable definitions to me :) As you said, it's PEOPLE, PEOPLE who think they have answers, but systems and definitions and symbols, GUIDES! everyone see's a different reality, MAYBE thats why symbols, models, even god model exist :-) heheheh
Peace,
Denial
Lots of good info, here............I have yet to be convinced that the evolution of man is fact. I personlay think to call us relatives of monkeys is bad for monkeys and us.
why how nice of you to say.. I prefer to at the very least remain civilised :PQuote:
Originally Posted by 5thHorseMan
you sir are a douchébag if we lived in the same reality we'd agree about this!Quote:
Originally Posted by 5thHorseMan
I suppose you are going to tell me you live in reality and i live in douchébag world, haha
God conceptually is a do nothing go nowhere concept? Thats pretty wishywashy also. You haven't said why, or how! At least I tried :-) cmmon.Quote:
Originally Posted by 5thHorseMan
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5thHorseMan
Infinity cannot be fully grasped by our minds, never will be, neither could something as great as god be comprehended IF it existed, it's truly beyond us.
For instance really refering to the 3rd law of thermal dynamics, entropy.. i.e. every substance has a finite positive entropy. e.g. you're mind cannot analyse more than n x models, books or ideas at any one time, at parallel or serial. Always there is bottleneck, as is the world of informatics and cellular automata... look it up! Here's my proof I have to ask though, where's yours :)
That is to say the basic informatics or cellular automata model applied to the universe says there is a finite amount of information storable in a given volume.. if god is supposed to be everything, then do you and me as individuals, not have a big problem comprehending any of this fully? As a reminder I by no means claim to have all the answers, just an out of the box take on what reality and science can do for the philosophical world..
peace,
Denial
God is a do nothing go nowhere concept, because it does nothing and goes nowhere. It makes no demand that a person challenge another ideas of what is and isn't, it just sits there insisting upon it's validity, while offering no reason to accept it, beyond dimwitted simplicity.
Competition amongst ideas is however, integral to science. In this way science is continuously being perfected while knowingly remaining imperfect.
And we all live in the same reality, we are merely percieving this same reality from different points of view. This reality encompassing the universe is for all intents finite being of a particular age, within an albeit poorly defined border of space.
Simply put there is no infinite anything, because infinity does not effectively exist, neither can god. Therefore the concept of god is wholly without value, and the concept of infinity is only of value in certain forms of mathematics.
heh, I think God (if this were to exist) is impossible for anyone to understand (as its definition insists this by premise, remember all knowing, etc)..Quote:
Originally Posted by 5thHorseMan
I too think its vanity to try and understand something impossible to understand. Perhaps taking note its impossible to fully comprehend anything infinite (as science/maths usually does hence imaginary number) is wisdom in itself. Some that crop up from time to time are that these "unreal/imaginary" numbers that seem to be very important to prime division and pi. Without getting too offtopic, understanding you cannot comprehend is progress in itself stopping one from wasting his or her time trying to draw a definite conclusion around an infinite fractal premise , without then running the risk of sounding like a moron when making a definitive judgement based on it
:)Quote:
Originally Posted by 5thHorseMan
How do you know we all live in the same reality? The beginning of philosophy must be I think therefore I am, not we think therefore we are? Maybe thats a new one for me :P Perhaps the universe is finite, perhaps it will continue growing, perhaps time goes backwards. We really aren't sure, and to be honest the scientists are still 'competing' over this one as you put it. It's dangerous to draw conclusions before the scientists have finished their work, at least if you are in the pro science con god corner of things. It's more than just our opinion that changes what we see, even where we are standing can change what we perceive to occur.Quote:
Originally Posted by 5thHorseMan
You know, Darwin and many others made it distinctly clear the features available in our genetics are not particularly global or particularly general, they are particularly specialised which specifically means limitation.
We don't even see the universe, we see an interpretation of it, what you called opinion; so you've said yourself everyone mentally is inhabiting a different reality heh... physically they are not? haha well unless we want to have an argument with our bodies over it, i'll skip that? I think my brain is thinking.. that seems clear :D We don't see the full light spectrum, full sound spectrum, we can't even see out into the universe , we have to use other specialised devices to understand. We truly are limited, and that isn't necessarily bad, especially if we are willing to accept this premise, we can move onto applying it.
How do you know there is no infinity? I don't know, how do you? If there was infinity we certainly wouldn't be able to identify it, it's beyond the functional grasp of the math our brains do... it's 'unreal'.Quote:
Originally Posted by 5thHorseMan
Peace,
denial
you keep saying we all live in different realities, we do not. Experiencing a singular reality with different interpretations does not make your reality separate from mine, only your experience is separate not your reality.
And God remains a useless concept. Name one thing the concept of God, has given humanity that is beneficial to it. It's impossible to understand God, simply because it does not truly exist. If we look at the universe the universe consisting of everything however, we see that even it is not infinite, instead we see that it stretches out approximately 93 billion light years, and is roughly 13.85 billion years old. We know that it is expanding, but this still does not make it infinite, just a very big finite. Even if we consider quantum theory the infinite quantity would be the number of alternate universes, and perhaps only in theory. But the individual universe's remain finite.
Existence is possible without awareness of existence. This is the problem with I think therefore I am. A rock exists regardless of whether or not it is aware of that existence.