First attempt at a 24-hour "Martian Method"

The real meat of this method might just be using our high horsepower light (HID,T5's, Strong led's) 8-10 hours a day and using low wattage Martian light 4-6 hours a day and getting results as if you ran your high horsepower light 12/12..:rastasmoke:

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Originally Posted by Mother

Remember that phytochrome conversion rate manipulation is not the point, it's the method. ("The method" meaning the method we use to keep the plant flowering) :) It doesn't need to be "charged back up" nor does the process get "kicked off". The process happens at a directly proportional rate to the light spectrum the plant is receiving, no more, no less (total darkness included). Phytochrome conversion is not connected to photosynthesis, both phytochrome conversion and photosynthesis are controlled by light spectrum. It's because they're both controlled by the light spectrum that when we manipulate one, the other gets manipulated as well. Therefore, we don't need to worry how phytochrome relates to photosynthesis. Instead, we need to consider what spectrum we can use that will maximize photosynthesis while keeping the phytochrome conversion rate in balance.

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i am a total noob when it comes to this stuff, but it seemed like this just summed up the whole thread! this stuff is very fascinating. thanks for sharing and letting us less educated on the subject tag along! you guys have truly peaked my curiosity to botany. it's definitely something i want to put effort in to studying and i hope to contribute to the community in the future!

-shake

edit: i thought this was a different thread, one of the LED light ones. either way, this still sums up the goal, well, of what we are all trying to achieve in general. and i guess it just so happnes the martian method is the latest and greatest.?

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Originally Posted by Dogznova

Hay farredeyed... What ratio of each spectrum do you plan on using? If that blue is too strong in your spectrum you might not even be able run it that long.

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I think I'd follow the recommendations for cfls and use 5500 to veg and 2700 for flowering. And if I read right, after you get into flowering you can go to a higher color temp?

660nm red's and I'm not sure about how I'll try to get far red, but I'll know more about how led's and cfl's all balance out if I can get a spectrometer cobbled together, the spectragraph works great. I think so looking at the different cfl's and SEEing the difference i think is helping me understand all this, but I'm enjoying learning what I can from these grow logs.

Truthfully, I want to be the first person to grow from diffused lasers :D

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Originally Posted by farredeyed

I think I'd follow the recommendations for cfls and use 5500 to veg and 2700 for flowering. And if I read right, after you get into flowering you can go to a higher color temp?

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That's our plan right now (add more blue light as we go). But I also think as the K temp goes up, our high horsepower light (blue light source) time on will come down.. JMO

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Originally Posted by farredeyed

660nm red's and I'm not sure about how I'll try to get far red, but I'll know more about how led's and cfl's all balance out if I can get a spectrometer cobbled together, the spectragraph works great. I think so looking at the different cfl's and SEEing the difference i think is helping me understand all this, but I'm enjoying learning what I can from these grow logs.

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Ya don't leve us in the dark on this. I'm sure we will all want to try this spectrometer.:thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by farredeyed

Truthfully, I want to be the first person to grow from diffused lasers :D

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Sounds cool but is the price right...

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Originally Posted by Dogznova

Hay farredeyed... What ratio of each spectrum do you plan on using? If that blue is too strong in your spectrum you might not even be able run it that long.

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also, if you havnt guessed I'm pre-amature, and not afraid to be corrected I want to make sure I understand the concepts at work before I waste a bunch of time/$$. Sorry if my commenting is distracting from the grow, I know alot more about glassblowing than I do growing.

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Originally Posted by farredeyed
Truthfully, I want to be the first person to grow from diffused lasers

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Sounds cool but is the price right...

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Well, there will be no ordering of $2000.00 expensive lasers, but I have some people collecting optical drives for me. Most dvd drives have red lasers in them and there have been a few burners out that sported blue lasers (pioneer or panasonic early 16x not sure), I'm sure the whole thing will be fun, not so sure it will be lucrative

this is all way off topic tho... I need to start my own crackpot theory thread

farred, not that they are cheap or commonplace yet, but blu-ray (and hd-dvd for that matter) players/burners use blue lasers. okay, blue violet, at 405nm, where as a dvd uses a red laser, at 650nm. just a thought. sorry to hijack, start a thread farred!

-shake

i'm interested in your spectograph (?) project too!

HERE is the link to my thread for making a spectrometer for anyone wanting to jump in on that. I'm still stoked on this martian method tho, being it is what got me interested in the spectrums of lighting in the first place ;) Mother, I'm still curious if you saw my last post pertaining to the lighting schedule, and about those last pics.. In the center pic the fans look like they only have one or two leaves on them are they pruned to let more light through the canopy or what am I seeing there?

edit: i messed up the link

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Originally Posted by farredeyed

So if i were to revise this rough little schedule here to give you a visual of how I'm interprating that
Fr.....<---------------------------------------------------------->
R......<------------------------------------------------>
B......<------------------>
........0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23

would that be more optimised? or do you mean you can have more blue "day" time?

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It all depends! What spectrums are you talking about? Different color spectrums operate at different rates, even within the ranges of Red and Far Red that you're talking about. Phytochrome is most sensitive at ~660/735, so the farther you get away from that, the less stimulated phytochrome is by the same wattage of light, so the effect on the plant's clock is less. You'd also have to consider intensity at some point. You're asking what the timing is without cosidering the rate of the spectrum. Both are very important aspects because it seems to be that it takes a certain amount of biologically-active phychrome Pr to be present for a certain amount of time for flowering to occur. The spectrum affects the rate, so to maintain the same (rate x time) product, you'd need to adjust your timing accordingly. You're on the right track, though, by putting more Far Red than Red, but for me understanding the relationship is Far more important than knowing the numbers. :D

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Originally Posted by farredeyed

I was kind of wondering with a schedule like the first one if the increased rate of conversion between pFr and pR affect the speed of the plants overall lifecycle like an instant autoflowerer, or even just to see what happens out of curiosity. assuming I've not gotten the wrong idea that that red and far red don't disturb the plants perception of night and that an equal amount of far red can revert phytochrome in a time equal to the red's photsynthetic period.

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I'm very curious what kind of Martian night would be good for an autoflowerer. Great question.

I think that you have still got a different impression than I got. :D Red and Far Red absolutely do affect the plant's perception of night. That's what I've been meaning when I'm talking about the plant's "clock". It's the plant's perception of how fast the night is actually happening. Red makes it slower, Far Red makes it faster, but not necessarily at the same rate. I don't know what the numbers are, that's why I have this grow log! :D

Sal has them, and they're in for publishing, so he can't share them yet. In the mean time, I started this log to try and guess. :thumbsup:

I was assuming the vales of 660 and 735 for red and far red I had put them in the post to clarify but then i took them out, and the orange line, just to 'clean up' the post

But I also kind of assumed that the plants day/night clock is only regulated by blue, and feeding red untill you can't anymore and either using far red to delay hitting that point or using cycles of red and then far red to 'feed' and 'reset' the phytochrome for feeding would alow for more feeding time in a 24hr period to get to the end result faster without throwing her back into veg

Anywho.. Thanks for grow logging I can't wait to see the outcome did you answer the leaf question? heh, i forgot already :)