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I'm currently brewing a fairly high alcohol content, american style, IPA. I've become obsessed with trying to somehow incorporate THC into the brew. From the research I've been doing it seems like the most efficient method would be to introduce a high quality cannabis, Everclear, green dragon mixture prior to the bottling stage(I don't want to ruin the beers flavor). If done at 1 ml per bottle do you think this should work and produce pronounced effects? Will it ruin the flavor of the beer?
Hi everybody. I've read everything in this thread & done some experimenting. I think the most important thing is getting the oven temp constant and getting the time for baking just right.
The suggestion of a pizza stone or brick(s) is good. Put the oven thermometer on the stone & when the temp settles (between 250F and 290F), put the tray on the stone as well and bake for the time specified on the excellent graph (pdf earlier in the thread). Watch the temperature carefully and adjust the time if the temp shifts.
Master Wu's suggestion of a second extraction is an excellent addition. The higher percentage alcohol the easier it is to keep the bath temp right.
A most rewarding experience and don't my lungs appreciate it...
I tried this with bout 3.5 grams of mixed meds i had, oven was at 250 and backed chopped up meds for 20 mins. i couldn't get it fine but it was really broken up. then i did the water bath with Vodka for about 30 mins. it took a bit for it to reach temps in the 160s so i didn't want to over cook it i tried to keep the temp between 160f to to 169f for bout 30 mins.
this yielded bout 1 oz. oh yea i used 2 oz of the vodka 40 %.
to my surprise the liquid came out to be like a brown color. odd i think. well eather way i put bout half a dropper in my Mt Dew. so far just took one drink and am starting to feel some slight relaxation.
Im thinking this is from a little of it been absorbed in the mouth. ill check back in when i get more results as i drink the rest of it. the time here is 11:27 am
its now 2:41pm and it did do the job of helping ease my pain, without getting the head high. So im guessing that's a success.
Just wanted to thank Master Wu and everyone else that contributed to this excellent thread. I've been looking for a way to use cannabis without smoking and this seems to be the easiest way to make a potent concoction that medicates quickly. After finding this thread and reading it all the way through I was able to create a potent Green Dragon on my first try.
I used very dry, very good, cannabis. I put 3.5 grams through the Notch grinder. I decarboxylated at 255 for thirty minutes in my toaster oven. I heated 4oz. of Everclear in a one cup Pyrex measuring cup in a water bath to 170º F then added the cannabis. I simmered that for 20 minutes. I strained the liquid into a different measuring cup. I then added about 2oz. of Everclear to the mash. I brought that up to 170º F and simmered for about five minutes. At that point the Everclear had evaporated below the top of the mash so I moved the water bath off the stove and added just enough Everclear to cover the mash. Probably about 1/2 oz. or so, just to keep all the mash in liquid. After another five minutes I strained this into the initial batch. It came out a beautiful emerald green and it smells like cannabis with a hint of alcohol. lol
I add two droppers to a glass of orange juice about a half hour before dinner. I find the effects really set in about forty-five minutes later and I'm fully medicated at about seventy-five minutes. The effects last me a good three and a half to four hours.
I'm going to pick up a Pyrex lab beaker and a hot plate so I don't have to do this over the stove.
This thread has really helped me a lot. Thank you all.
I finally read some of this thread. I will have to give this a try to see how it compares to my regular just soaked tincture.
Thanks to Master Wu and all for the helpful updates. It looks like the lower decarb temp 250 - 255 is the way to go.
Since this thread seems to still be somewhat active I thought I'd add a few comments. First, if what happened to gerodent hasn't yet happened to you, it sort'a did to me this morning while making my very first batch of GD, only I got a little luckier than he did. All the jar did was crack, with a loud popping noise, about three-quarters of the way around the base of the jar just above the thick bottom.Quote:
Originally Posted by gerodent
In my case it was a wide mouth pint Kerr jar (same as a Mason, just different brand). I followed the instructions to the letter...inserting the cold jar into the simmering water. Within maybe 10 seconds I heard a loud pop, so I turned off the flame and grabbed a handy drinking glass. Lifting the jar I poured the mix into the glass without losing a drop. Whew! Lucky me, eh!? ;)
Here's the science: putting a cold (room temperature!) jar into near boiling water sets up very high thermal expansion stresses in the glass, and I am confident this was the cause of gerodent's broken jar. I was concerned about this issue while reading the recipe, but since there was no mention of it on the first page, I figured my concerns were overblown. Not so! Like I said above, though, I got luck and didn't lose any of the magic elixir. The correct procedure, and any home canning enthusiast will tell you, is to put the jar in the water while the water is still cold, and to let them come up to temperature together. In my case, I didn't have a spare jar, so used a Pyrex (thick, heat-treated glass) measuring cup, which worked fine.
Okay, now here's the kicker. I didn't have any high-proof alcohol, so used 6 oz of Smirnoff Raspberry flavored 70-proof vodka. I haven't tried it yet, but it smells great! :D After about 40 minutes at 160-170 degrees F the solution had reduced by half to a medium brown color. No hint of green. After supper tonight I'll try in and post tomorrow about how well it did or did not work. I saved the residue for smoking if this doesn't work...
Cheers!
I drank a teaspoon of the tincture last night after supper...about 7:30. Nothing. Nada. El zippo.
Good thing I saved the residue! :D
I would not want to smoke it because of the stuff left in it from the flavored vodka. Not sure but it doesn't sound good.Quote:
Originally Posted by StoneMeadow
Thanks for the suggestion, misslilly. I'll give that some thought, but since I drink the vodak, I must admit I'm already ingesting the witches' brew of whatever's in it. ;)
Tonight I took a tablespoon of the tincture after work. We'll see if more is better... :)
Well, there was a great deal of attention paid to converting THCA to plain old THC, with heat. This process occurs over time all by itself BTW. Not completely, but continuously through the life of the harvested weed.
I've made tinctures where I did heat the weed up before putting it in the Everclear for a soak. I have also tried it without heating it at all, and I have to tell you, that it works way better, at least for me and my MS, when I ingest as much THCA as I can - meaning don't heat the bud.
I do all the "usual " things, grind whole bud (no leaf, no keif) in a blender, mix with Everclear, put in freezer for a week and shake a few times a day.
Then I strain it using a regular kitchen strainer, and press the hell out of the wet wad of weed, to squeeze out the last drop. After that, I strain it through a coffee filter, held by a kitchen strainer, and again squeeze it to death. I usually lose a couple of cc's to evaporation and the wad of weed. Some people save the wad, wrap it in a cloth, put in a sealed jar, and rub it on sore muscles. Haven't tried that, but I know if you get too much of the solution on your hands, you will get a buzz, so it probably works.
I pour the mixture into a glass measuring cup, and note how many cc's I have. Put the open container in a safe, dark, airy place until it is reduced by at least half - more if you have the time and patience. Now during this time period, some of the THCA is being converted to THC, but a good deal of it, is staying THCA, which is thought to have pain-relieving, neuro-protective and anti-inflammatory effects. I then pour it into a dark colored glass bottle with a dropper (available online) and store it in the fridge.
I usually don't get more than a bit buzzed, but move incredibly better and hurt a whole lot less. Which is exactly what I'm after. I have learned that buzzed doesn't always equal feeling better. I can vape the exact same weed as I've made tincture with, and some things actually hurt MORE, than when I use the tincture. I'm buzzed, but having weird aches where I don't even hurt on a regular day! Weird.
I've never been able to reduce the volume of tincture enough to have a concentration that I could put drops under my tongue. It's too gross, by the time you get it strong enough. That's why I put it in coffee. Still tastes yucky, but not impossible to ingest.
This method uses a whole lot more bud than vaping, but works better for me from a medical standpoint, without the bother of being impaired. It is easier to dose consistently, and more discrete. I just put 1.5cc's ( which I have calculated to have about 0.5 gram of bud in it) into my coffee and either have toast with butter (for the fat) or 2 cookies to carry it around my body.
It last 3-4 hours and then it's time for more coffee!
If anyone wants the "recipe" from start to finish, let me know.
Carry on buds!
Good info mo. My friend makes excellent tincture by soaking, straining, add new buds and resoak. He does not allow the product to evaporate at all. Still 1 or 2 ml will definitely work. He does a months long soak too (though I have heard good and bad about doing that).
Still nothing. No feeling of intoxication or being "high", no sense of well being or easier movement...nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by StoneMeadow
Of course, I haven't smoked since the 70's, so I'm not sure exactly what to expect. :D
There are a couple of tablespoons left, so I'll finish that off later.
I tried this recipe, as it is one i already use on my site and really like it. Not to rain on anyones parade, just my opinion, I think decarbing is a waste of time. ive tried making tinctures with and without decarbing and have never noticed a difference in potency. just sayin'.. but i love how well you have detailed this information.
well done!
hello friends. yesterday I attempted to make green dragon. this is what i did. i broke up a quarter ounce high grade marijuana and put it into a 750ml bottle of spirytus 192 proof 96% alcohol. then i did some reading and from what ive read it seems i was supposed to microwave or bake the green before placing it in a bottle. im no scientist and i must admit i dont understand the proccess but it seems the heat will release the thc or something of that sort so what i did next was i gave my bottle a hot bath. i imemrsed the bottle in a pot of boiling water and changed the water every twenty minutes for about an hour. the bottle was very hot to the touch but i dont think the bottle ever came close to a boil. a few ounces evaporated even though i never even opened the bottle. how is that even possible? so anyway fellow friends, what do you think i should do? is my bottle ok to go to the cupboard for a few weeks? should i keep it in the freezer? does it matter? anybody have any idea as to the potency of this drink? should i evaporate the mixture to increase potency?
First off don't leave a cover on a bottle and then try to heat it up. It could explode if it got hot enough. Why did you change the water every 20 min ? The process of baking it it to dry it out. From what I understand in the process of drying it out the h2o leaves taking with it a molecule from another chain of molecules, turning it from THCA into THC. Not sure what you should do with the bottle you have now. I would strain it and try some the way it is. But keep the weed for now just in case you want to put it back in. From what i've done i would break down what you have into 24 doses to start. Take one of those doses and put it into something to drink it. I like to use something with a little alcohol to help it out. A mixed drink or a shot works good. I like to use Creme de Cacao made by Hiram Walker. It has some alcohol in it but only 15%. So when i'm done I have a shot that is about 75-100 proof or so. With the chocolate flavor i like to call it "Liquid Brownie", their great for breakfast. I've also had good luck using my trim. But only the best trim no stalk and no big fan leaves.
i didnt have a pot large enough to boil the water in and i wasnt sure putting it directly over a flame even in a pot of water was the safest thing to do so instead i brought a pot of water to a boil and poured it over my bottle in a wash basin. i wrapped the basin with a towel and changed the water. when i was done the bottle and its contents were very hot. according to what youre telling me my water bath did nothing to convert the thca into thc? is this an essential step in making green dragon? wont it happen over time if i just let the bottle sit over a few weeks? can i strain the bud out and microwave it now?
btw after the bath the liquid in the bottle which was clear as vodka turned a dark beautiful green!!!
You might as well strain it and try it. As far as I understand it is not the heat that changes the thca into thc but the fact that is drying out like I said in the last post. What the heating of the alcohol does is get things moving to break the thc and other things down faster than if you didn't heat it. I don't know how well that would work if it is soaked the alcohol to convert it. Just leaving the weed to dry out over time will do the same thing. But I'm sure that would depend on the humidity at the time. How dry was the weed ? To me it's better to be safe and do it in the oven. I've been doing it at about 252 degrees, or at least thats what I shoot for. I would still be very carful with a bottle in hot water like that, water boils at about 212 but alcohol boils (and expands) at about 170 degrees. You probably lost those 2 oz of liquid when it soaked into the weed, displacing the air and making it seen like you lost some. That dark green is the chlorophyll and all the other stuff that is dissolved in the alcohol. As well as the thc that you are trying to get out. Sorry if I ramble a bit but I'm in the middle of sampling my latest batch. haha. Just trying to get all your questions. I have back problems an this stuff does help out.
thanks for the help. so youre saying its not important that i heat the weed but i have to dry it first in an oven or microwave? i thought i read that heating the weed was the idea. i also read some posters saying that all this conversion thca to thc will happen by itself over time. the weed was fairly dry to begin with. it was good weed but i had it for about two weeks. i know it was basically what you would expect to get an eighth of for 60 two weeks later in ny. im afraid of straining/handling the liquid unless i need to. everytime you strain you loose good stuff! so anybody else care to weigh in? should i strain the bud out now and then dry it and if you think i should what is the best way?
Master Wu, I would add "to shake the bottle before dosing". If you don't, the last couple of doses are out of this world. It seems all the good stuff sinks!
Hey guys. Awesome thread, and great job Master Wu. Creds! I have a question, however. Does anyone in here have any experiences with making GD using lower proof than 151? Where I'm from, 60% alcohol is the highest you can legally obtain, whereas 151 is 75%. I can certainly see how it's less than optimal, but does it really render the whole process impossible? :what:
So has anyone tried, successfully or not, making GD with ~60% alcohol content?
I would like your recipe in whole. I just tried to make some in the way described by the OP, but could not get the mix to get up to 170 had the stove on as high as it would go and could only get to 150, not sure if it will have worked. I live in Colorado so maybe the altitude had something to do with it. Anyway I am a new medical user and am in extreme pain so would like to try your way as well to see if there is a difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by farmermo
Woooo first post! I'm totally overwhelmed by the amount of knowledge being shared on these forums. The GD caught my eye as soon as I laid eyes on the website.
I'm very interested in trying this, and I have some questions. (I have read 12 of 19 pages [my eyes grow weary!] and I haven't seen answers for me, but if I am repeating anything I humbly apologize)
1. Master Wu has suggested that the best extraction temperature for the alcohol whilst in the hot water bath is 170F for 20 minutes. Does this mean the 20 minutes commences once 170F is attained? Or does it include the time required to reach 170F?
2. Just to add some flavour I'm considering adding spearmint/peppermint extract. Will this cause me any negative side effects?
3. Assuming one wanted to double the initial recipe, does the cooking time need to be increased?
4. I live in Calgary, Alberta Canada, which is an hours drive worth away from the Rocky Mountains. Will the altitude I live at have any significant impacts I should be made aware of???
Again, I'm sorry if I'm just echoing previously asked questions, but I'm very OCD with things that require a specific procedure for success and I like to collect as much intangible data as I can before beginning.
cheers
Started my first batch before finding this thread, I didn't do the decarb but I did start with 2.5 oz of primo bone dry shake.
Put it all in a 26er of 151 a couple days ago and left it alone aside from some occasional shaking.
Now reading this today, I put it in a pot of boiling water and brought the temp up to the 170 area, shaking the contents every minute or so. It changed color from a deep forest green to a slightly muddier brownish green so I hoping thats a good sign. IT didn't change much, I didn't push the heat issue too much just wanted to help a bit without possibly hurting.
Heres a couple pics of how it looked after heating, took a 15ml shot in a glass of coke half hour ago and have a decent body stone currently.
http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/a...r/Untitled.png
http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/a...r/DSC00193.jpg
I'm a bit of a super chronic these days, nothing gets me super baked, I'm hoping this peaks a bit more but as it is its done the trick.
Thanks Wu, and everyone else contributing to this awesome thread :thumbsup:
almost 2 hours in and going strong, it did pick up a bit, comes in waves a bit it seems.
thanks again! :smokin:
P.S. I put it in the freezer now... haha figured why not, but do you think there is any problem in useing more than one extraction method on a batch?
Hello all,
I'm brand new to these forums and I just started learning more about making the Green Dragon. Unfortunately I started my tinc before reading Master Wu's guide. The recipe that I followed was 1 gram per every 35ml of alcohol. I modified it some to try to make it more potent. I used 2 grams to 50ml of 192 proof spirytus. I started this on the 18th and I have been keeping in in the dark and swirling it around everyday. I didn't warm the green in the oven before adding it to the alcohol or heated them up together. I'm feeling like I screwed it up. If I have, is there a way to redeem it or should I chalk it up as a loss and follow the guide next time?
heh, went to sign up for an account to post in this thread, turns out I made one 4 years ago and only activated it just now. Mayhaps I've been partaking a little too much :stoned:
So I've got a couple of tips for people trying this one out.
I've noticed a few people are having problems maintaining the temperature of the cook or getting a weak batch. I think I might have a solution to this.
First things first, always do your cook in one of these puppies. These common stainless steel kitchen mixing bowls not only conduct heat GREAT, they won't crack with temperature changes, they are wide with a deep base and of different sizes, don't tip over in a rolling boil, and best of all they float in water. This is great because it's very important to keep that container away from the base of the pan, having the container resting on the base totally defeats the purpose of the water bath and will cause your THC to vape during cooking.
Next up, don't be worried about the max temperature of your alcohol, worry about your minimum temperature. The only thing having the alcohol as hot as it will go (173-180F depending on your purity of alcohol) is cause you to use a lot more alcohol in the cooking process to bring it to 20min. However if you do the process at a too low temperature you will not extract very much THC at all. 10deg too hot is more desirable than 10deg too cold (unless you're desperately short on extra alcohol ofc)
Lastly, if you want to get maximum potency you'll need to do multiple washes on your mash. Now for me it's very important to get as much potency as possible, volume is not so important. My usual way of consuming this stuff is to drop 3 or 4 drips out of an eye dropper onto the top of a nice cone every once in a while. Really gives it a hell of a kick :hippy:
Anyway, to do this with good effect I need to really get every bit of THC into a small amount of alcohol, the usual way of washing tends do actually dilute the final brew so I tried a different way.
- Start your second wash as normal, give it then 10 minutes you would normally allow, and then strain it off into a seperate container, if this looks quite clear skip to step 3
- Give it a third the same as the second and strain it into the container containing the second wash, this should come out fairly clear, but on the odd chance it hasn't repeat the wash process until your solution is near clear. The remains of all washes should go into the 'wash bucket' we're using.
- Pour the contents of the wash bucket into one of the larger steel bowls and place in the water bath, turn that baby up to maximum and vape all the alcohol away, you'll be left with some hash oil, now drop the temperature down to barely simmering
- Add the contents of the GD from your main wash, stir until all that hash oil is dissolved*, rebottle your GD and enjoy.
* If you are having difficulty dissolving the hash oil, you should crank up the temps, reduce your main wash to hash oil, then add fresh alcohol to bring it up to it's original volume. The higher alcohol content in the fresh stuff should dissolve that sticky goodness
I've got a couple questions for the more experienced guys too. I'm curious about isomerization, I understand the process of the heat method but not sure at what stage of the GD I should do it. Should I do it before the decarb, before the first wash, or reduce my final GD to hash oil and isomerise that? I would have thought it would be best in the green stage, but I'm not sure if water absorption would have a detrimental effect on the final product
I'm also curious about the acid + heat method, I've heard lemon juice gives little to no effect. I was wondering if I could use citric acid powder supersaturated in hot water to maybe get a more effective acid? If citric acid proves to have no effect whatsoever I was thinking of making another supersaturated solution but with muriatic acid powder. That stuff is also known as hydrocloric acid and should certainly pack a punch.
The big thing that worries me about the acid method is that it wouldn't vape with the alcohol during the cook process, meaning it'll be left in the GD and I'll get a nice mouthful of acid. Perhaps HCl is the breakfast of champions but I'm not game to try. I suppose I could use bicarb soda to neutralise the acidity, but I imagine it'll end up tasting absolutely foul. Anyone got some advice?
What kind of pan and how much water do you use for the bath with those stainless bowls? And can you describe the wash bucket part a bit? You put the alcohol in the wash bucket the first 3 times after straining? Then use it all again at once without any "mash"?
alright, read thru all the comments, my major question is the cooking of the of the leaf in the oven...5 minutes? The weed was warm, is that all that needs to be done? I didn't notice any color difference to it, no smoking or anything...I kept it in the for about 5 to 7 minutes. I'm assuming that this is some major step in the process and therefore I don't want to screw it up, so is it an exact sceince? Should I of seen a difference in the weed? Or am I just worrying to much? Any help will be greatly appreciated as I use this for medical purposes and I'm tired of smoking because my tolerance is so high now.
and I'm using half ounce of Diesel and a half ounce of Jack the Ripper...both strains I grow for myself...God...I hope this really fucks me up.
Very nice recipe, I used everclear in mine...but I don't think I baked it long enough because I used a glass pan and not aluminum, but I left it in a bit longer and I think it kinda works.it had more of an alcohol smell than cannabis, but I took two droppers around the end of a long night of drinking, and woke up with no hangover. I figured i'd post this before I took my next dose. Thanx again, dragon master Wu
I've been keeping this information to myself, until I had some results. The main things you need to do, to ensure that you have a successful tincture is. 1. Don't just use one strain (chances are it won't address very many issues) Use multiple strains . 2 Double, and triple soak your buds. 3. Press your weed squeeze every last drop out.
One thing to mention for those who have an electric stove at home -- you really need to measure the temperature your herb gets up to throughout the decarboxylation process, and vent when the oven gets hotter than what you ordered. That's because electric stoves are calibrated to work by keeping whatever is in the stove at a minimum of the temperature you specify. So if you set it to 250F once it's up to that temperature it will not drop below 250F but may go up by 100F. You really have to monitor this.
To minimize this effect, run the stove at the desired temperature for a couple of hours, open the stove door as little as possible, and use metal covers over the stovetop. I've gotten the "temperature shift" down to about 35F that way. Also someone posted a pdf file with decarboxylation temperatures and how to reach the maximum THC levels -- forget those numbers, they're achieved using a constant-temperature oven, and no one has one of these in their houses.
Just tried making my first batch, and it was kind of a failure.when i put the bud in
The mason jar and started to simmer it, i put the thermometer in the jar and brought it to about 165. To do this, the water was boiling fairly heavily. After about 6 minutes, all
The alcohol had evaporated. I added some more and turned down the temp, but my yield ended up being alot less than it should have been. What did i do wrong? Was it thewater bath that was supposed to be 170 and not the mixture? It seemed like i was just too hot even though the thermometer said it was perfect
Hi,
I'm new to the forum. I have two thoughts on this before I try making a batch.
#1 - is anyone actually using this for pain management...and able to function after dosing?
#2 - would putting some mint tea leaves in during the boil improve the taste? I figure its safe to consume...
The way I see it there is no way in hell you are going to get 30 doses out of only an 1/8 ounce of good herb. For edibles the dose is at least a grams worth of extraction or cannabutter for me and pretty much everyone else I've ever heard of in my entire life, At least... You can go 2 if your looking to get really stoned or smoke a lot. So you'll get like 2 or 3 or maybe 4 doses out of an eigth of herb. Not a cold shot in hell that your getting even 15 let alone twice that much. Unless master wu has special powers. Lol.
You could probably get 30 good doses out of a full ounce.
Back in the day I isomerized nasty azz cannabis. When I say "back in the day" I mean 1976 when most of y'all where hang'n 'round lol. Had a device that looked like the "Volcano". Used really harsh chemicals but all burned off. Made the most amazing liquid gold. The chem reaction also increases the strength of the cannabis!!
Sic Semper Tyrannus
:smokin:
I heard dat!
When I say "back in the day, I'm talkin '68. :)
Made some hash oil then using boiling lighter fluid. (basically,dirty naphtha)
Want to guess how green it was?
Sucked it into cigarettes, let it dry, and went to the midnight-movies.
That's right they allowed smoking in theaters in Ohio.
Don't remember the next 2 days, but I landed grinning. :D
Aloha, y'all
Weeze
Lol, guess we're revealing experience! Oil is really nice bro. Gonna experiment with some of me bounty. & of course this thred is extensive so will be easy to compare notes. Cheers big ears!
Sic Semper Tyrannus
:s4:
Respectfully disagree. I have found that when the right quality herb, and right extraction process (for cannabutter, oil, etc) is followed, a dose of between .20 - .25 gram (one fifth or one quarter gram) is sufficient to provide significant potency for the couple of dozen people that I have had try edibles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Charles