LED grow lights... input please.

Let's have a look at the graph again, with the caption. You see how it says increasing photons per pulse, and the total amount of photons emitted remained constant?

If you have a light on constantly, lets hypothetically say it emits 100 photons per second.
If you have the same light on half the time, it will obviously only emit 50 photos per second on average.
So say if you wanted the light off half the time, but want 100 photons per second, you could get two of these lights, or drive it at a higher current, which corresponds to giving off 100 photons per second.

If you have a look at the graph which shows relative luminous flux vs forward current for CREE XE-Rs, you need more than twice as much current to double the light output.

Conclusion: It's less efficient to pulse.

I can't make it any simpler.

It's not the photons you put out, it's how they're used.

Photosynthesis isn't continuous, it goes in steps, so when you pulsed light at 5khz, then I assume in the mean time they are still using the light the pulse gave them while the light is in the duration of the off cycle. Or they are recycling the light...as in sunflecks. :D

It's been proven with tomatoes...........lol.........

physicsnole wouldn't be screwing with hundreds of dollars of equipment and designing circuits if he didn't know what he was doing.

n00bs that come in here without reading up or going off other's opinions need a life, but after physicsnole is done with this and you see the results YOU will become the n00b that wants to be like him.

PLUS If you'd read the chart....it's 4.6 umolc02m2s1 for continuous light and just as much with the pulsing BUT at a certain pulse duration. I don't get why posting a graph that you can't understand has anything to do with being knowledgeable.

think about average power used from AC instead of instantaneous DC power during those pulses. since there are capacitors and inductors in the power circuit the pulsed energy is taken from them, and then the AC "slowly" gives the power back, making the average AC power used lower. indeed there is still alot of testing needed with pulsing. i couldn't tell you one PWM frequency or duty cycle that works, cause i havent done it yet. And on the cree graph the derivative of the line for the white/blue looks constant past 250mA, however i am sure that it tapers off at a point, as most components do. this max point will have to be determined with testing. if we can reach the saturation point of photosynthetic quantum yield by experimentation then we can see if the LED array or whatever other light source we use produces "too much" light, in which we can then pulse the light to reach the saturation point, but not exceed it. to tell you the truth pulsing might not bring any advantages to the table; if the LEDs cannot reach the saturation point even when overdriven. But if they can reach tose saturation levels then we can limit the use of the LEDs (on time) to save energy. The theory is there, just needs to be tested. oh and pulsing is not less efficient, it is just as efficient as continuous light. Finding the right frequencies of PWM and flux could prove to lead to a nobel prize. one thing is for sure, plants do not need continuous to perform photosynthesis at the same rate as with continuous light.

and the fact is this is not a simple topic. we can put it into simple words, but that just destroys the value and information the theory provides. if you still dont believe me, fine, the test will prove who is right and "wrong"

http://www.plantphysiol.org/cgi/reprint/88/1/158.pdf

Blackwell Synergy - Cookie Absent

http://www.biophysj.org/cgi/reprint/16/1/93.pdf

http://www.ecaa.ntu.edu.tw/weifang/led/360204hs.pdf

MAKE: Blog: Super efficient grow light

Annual Reviews - Error

if you only read one read this one:

Blackwell Synergy - Cookie Absent

I made it as simple as possible, but you still don't understand. I'll leave you to it.

Scrap that, I think physicsnole does actually understand the point I was trying to make now. devilgoob, you've proven you don't have a clue

im glad you realized that:thumbsup: thank you for understanding i understand where u come from

I understand that jabzab understands that physicsnole now understands that jabzab understands that physicsnole has a clue.

I've always understood that.

Reading back, I now realize that I misunderstand.

lol these comps with there number statistics and 5c+= 67 who cares what they say the results are in the crop! thatS what i want to see:thumbsup:

I thought you may be interested in this site in England.
I spoke to them and they say they will make up any panel you wish.
Your source for everything LED based - Eco LED Lights UK Home Page
I am following your experiment with interest

wow they want alot for thoes damn things

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hearseking

wow they want alot for thoes damn things

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Aloha.

Quite a lot, considering the fact that they are almost useless.
Better off saving up for a light that works, i e UFO, Procyon, DIY, etc.
Just my opinion, based on tests.
:smokin:I could be wrong.

Weezard

Weezard;

Add to your list of working hi power LED grow lights:

TI Smartlamp pro-bloom. Uses 300 watts and looks like it
will work very well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by oldmac

Weezard;

Add to your list of working hi power LED grow lights:

TI Smartlamp pro-bloom. Uses 300 watts and looks like it
will work very well.

---

Mahalo, O.M.

Unfortunately, I gotta bad case of budget blinders.
DIY is a PIA, but antisocial insecurity sets my limits nowadays.
Just ordered another round of 5Watt Ledengins.
Little at a time.
Too impatient to save up and just smart enough not to use plastic.:)
Perhaps I should start a thread for the next light, n stop cluttering up other folks threads?
Could call it "Bubba re-invents the wheel," yeah?:)

Aloha,
Wee

Aloha,

TI uses lotsa leds, 150.
I'm trying to spare some money to buy some leds, but it's not bout antisocial security for me, it's the banks... God, never try to buy a house before selling the old one, or you'll get rapped by bank !

Anyway, I got time to read and plan.

One of their lamp (TI) is round 260w consumption, the other more like 300W although one can see 450W on the sticker of the lamp, but I wonder what's the total PAR watts.

I plan staying with 2 to 5W leds, the ones over 10W are too expensive by the lumen, at least for me. But things go fast in technologies. I might have to readjust in a few months.

Take care

The test is definitely in the results for sure.

I have been looking into the couple of leds available for growing and the only two that are even worth looking at are the Procyon 100 and the Smartlamps. The rest are all cheap shit.

Of the two the TI-Smartlamps are the best. They are the most powerful and they are the best at growth and flowering cause they have more than just red and blue leds. I was speaking to a commercial greenhouse guy who says they are the only ones that the commercial growers are using -- tomatos etc so it should be good for other stuff ;)

There is a great little hobby site for growing with LEDs called Experiments with Hydroponics, Aeroponics, and LED Grow Lighting which is worth following for anyone interested.

They just started a tomato test with the Smartlamp which should be interesting to follow. Not sure how many stores sell these lamps yet, but you can always buy them online from the company at growrevolution.com

Thinking about a Procyon 100 here. 100 watts, talked with one of their reps, it does 50k lumens, red and blue with little to no green, covers 10 sq. ft.:smokin:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by xxxdout

Thinking about a Procyon 100 here. 100 watts, talked with one of their reps, it does 50k lumens, red and blue with little to no green, covers 10 sq. ft.:smokin:

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Hi Eggstout.:)

I'm sure you've seen SnStealth's Revenge of the LEDs thread.:cool:
And his two previous grow logs.?
Worth reading.
The proof is in the budding.:)

Aloha,
Weezard

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Roborev

I thought you may be interested in this site in England.
I spoke to them and they say they will make up any panel you wish.
Your source for everything LED based - Eco LED Lights UK Home Page
I am following your experiment with interest

---

Hey Roborev, welcome to the forum. We'll see about them making any panel I wish. I emailed them and asked for a price on a 50 watt 735nm panel. I imagine it would be several thousand dollars.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Opie Yutts

Hey Roborev, welcome to the forum. We'll see about them making any panel I wish. I emailed them and asked for a price on a 50 watt 735nm panel. I imagine it would be several thousand dollars.

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Well, didja ever hear from these "snake oil" folks? :)

Inqireing minds want to know.:jointsmile:
Weeze

I've been reading threads about l.e.d. My thoughts on all this is get your veg time done with alot of l.e.d, and about 1200 lumens fluorescent. When it's time to bud em out, blast em with about 600 hps more. I'll let yeall know how it goes. Trying with soil on 1st run of this project, and hope to move to bubbleponics with whatever tweaks to the light system I come up with. Your plants like the radio. Dont ask me exactly why, maybe soundwaves keep soil just right for roots? Take it easy guys

Hey guys, I didn't have the chance to read through this thread but I have two 2 x 4 foot closets and want to replace my T5's. What setups, vendors, etc etc do you guys recommend? Sorry if I am asking a redundant question but I am at work and cannot freely look at this thread, any help would be much appreciated!

Veg with the T5 in one closet and bloom with a 400 Hid, cooltube and inline fan. If odor is concern then add a carbon filter. Check Elitehydro.com can get all the stuff for under $450. digital ballast, cooltube, hps bulb, elf carbon filter and eclips in-line fan.

cannakeeper, thanks for the advice. What I really wanted to do was replace my lighting fixtures with the LEDs. There is a lot to read with certain vendors saying to stay away from certain vendors and it's tough to figure out what is legit and what isn't.. Any advice what brands, companies are best to look at for LED lights? When I do google searches, the UFO seems to come up a lot, any good?

hey whats up? noobage.
just wondering what you guys would think of this?
Procyon Depot :: Purchase

peace

Plant was a tasty Kush-Sage and very potent strain created in Santa Cruz, Ca. I purchased a PAR38 RED 80 LEDs and placed it under one 1gl baby during the flowering process with an added high output florescent (AWESOME). The light failed miserably compared to a nice HPS glowing upon her. I felt bad because she turned out to be a b to b+ grade (waste of time). Plant looked cool while budding. Buds didn't develop properly or fast enough and the plant morphed slightly. Much less glands than her twin sisters...

I haven't tried any of the UFO's or more spendy ones.

Hi all. Somewhere on this board was a link related to the experiment UV spectrum absorbtion by THC and CBD. If someone could give it out. Thank you

Hi All Im a NOOB and growing 6 plants drip with the UFO Triband 2 weeks in and the Plants are Thriving I cant wait fo another 2 weeks to go by I am getting around an inch a day Growth Will Keep ya Posted

Tried and true the 90 watt UFO is the latest and greatest in grow lighting.

The UFO replaces your 400-600 watt MH/HPS systems utilizing truly space age technology. Emitting virtually no heat, consuming a minimal 90 watts, very little light decay, no need for a ballast or reflector; Its no wonder NASA uses LED Technology to grow plants in outer-space .

The LED UFO Grow Light uses only 90 watts of power, rendering it 80% more efficient over modern Metal Halide and High-Pressure Sodium (HPS) lighting. Providing only the exact spectrum used by plants for growth means you use less power and get more of the light your plants love. Since the UFO uses state of the art LED technology the heat output is minimal at best, keeping your climate steady and your thermal signature hidden.

The UFO is suitable for all stages and applications of Indoor/Greenhouse Plant Growing. From Hydroponic and Commercial Greenhouses to your Average Hobbyist, the UFO produces thick, dense, healthy plants from sprout to flower to harvest!

The UFO can light up to 4m x 4m or 12' x 12' as the primary light source, or much greater heights as a supplemental light source.

(of course they don't give the exact type of led used, but I'm sure we can figure it out w/ a little research.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SAtown

Tried and true the 90 watt UFO is the latest and greatest in grow lighting.

The UFO replaces your 400-600 watt MH/HPS systems utilizing truly space age technology.

The UFO can light up to 4m x 4m or 12' x 12' as the primary light source,

---

SAtown;

As a user and experimenter, and a LED lover, I say BULLSHIT!

Claims like that are so far removed from reality there is no way I would believe anything else you have to say.

This is exactly why so many people don't believe in LEDs, they buy something based on shit like this and when it doesn't live up to those exagerated claims, LED's get bad mouthed. When in reality it's not the LEDs fault, the problem is some schuster trying to make a buck off uneducated people.

SAtown,
Many of us have tried and successfully used LEDs for growing, but I'm afraid that the info listed on that eBay store is just plain BS. Right now I'm using about 400 watts of LED and getting great buds.

14 watts is just plain not enough to grow and flower with.

Again, this type of LED info is what gives credence to the LED's won't grow cannabis ideas. LEDs will work but the efficency and cost of the LED needed is being greatly exagerated by those only interested in ripping other unsuspecting individuals off.

Sorry, bud...

MP

Quote:

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Originally Posted by oldmac

SAtown;

As a user and experimenter, and a LED lover, I say BULLSHIT!

Claims like that are so far removed from reality there is no way I would believe anything else you have to say.

He's not sayin' it, brah. He's just regurgitatin' what he read at the led bandit's on-line store.

This is exactly why so many people don't believe in LEDs, they buy something based on shit like this and when it doesn't live up to those exagerated claims, LED's get bad mouthed. When in reality it's not the LEDs fault, the problem is some schyster trying to make a buck off uneducated people.

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Aloha, OldMac

Looks like dem ledwholesale shysters just made $32 off of that guy.
He's determined to try a grow with that 225 China panel POC and will find out that "Leds don't work":D
[attachment=o218282]
So, you wanna tell him? Or should I?

Ah fuggedaboudit!
This little rip-off just might get him to do the requred "homework", yah?:cool:

Onward, to the great egress! -P.T Barnum


Regards,
Weezard

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SAtown

Just in case u get confused easily...http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/1Som_Bid...d_Blue_001.jpg:)

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Tsk!
No need to get snarky with OldMac.
He knows what he's on about.


You sir, have made an error.:(


How do I know?
Easy, I made the same error when I was starting with LEDS.:)
Happens to the best of us.

Here's what's inside that China Panel.

[attachment=o218283]

[attachment=o218284]

As for the discrete leds used..
Gimme a J, gimme a U, gimme an N...:D


It's a fire hazard as well.

So, I took my lumps, threw it out, and moved on.
It served a purpose.
It made me read enough to do it right.
That was well worth the purchase price to me.

Not interested in an argument.
Just tryin' to save you some grief.


Aloha,
Weezard

Hey Weezard, hope I didn't rub you the wrong way, somehow.

How's the lamp work'n out for ya?

I had to remove one of the Procyons to balance the heat load so I'm down to 435 watts right now. Gonna have to work on getting more air flow next grow. Still way cooler than my HPS rig. Had to install a carbon scrubber to remove the smell. My next door neighbor passed away last December and I have a new neighbor who might not be as friendly to my garden.

hope your present flowering is coming along nicely..

MP

Hey Weez,

I doubt this ahole bought anything, he's been humpin' LED Wholesalers (Ebay ripoff artists) many, many times.

Everyone here should beware! This is not a source of anything decent.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MerryPrankstr

Hey Weezard, hope I didn't rub you the wrong way, somehow.

If you "rubbed" me atall it must have been very gentle.:D
I'm quite ticklish in spite of my scaly appearance.;)

How's the lamp work'n out for ya?

So far, so great!
Oh, BTW, it is possible to veg. with only 15 Watts.
Just not with 15 Watts of crap.
I did build an working array of 300. 10mm. 70 Candela ea.
leds last year. Just to see if it could be done.
But, I used 660nm. reds 455 nm. blues and they are lensed to concentrate the light to a 15-20 degree angle.
I actually still use it for cloning.
And I had some success with HGL's 14Watt kit. for veg.

I had to remove one of the Procyons to balance the heat load so I'm down to 435 watts right now. Gonna have to work on getting more air flow next grow. Still way cooler than my HPS rig. Had to install a carbon scrubber to remove the smell. My next door neighbor passed away last December and I have a new neighbor who might not be as friendly to my garden.

Sneak over the fence tonight and plant a few seeds in his yard.
That'll tell you if he's a "friendly".

I did that in Ca.
When the new neighbor came out and saw the new seedling he said,
"What ho!
A volunteer!":)

We became good friends:joint1:

hope your present flowering is coming along nicely..

MP

---

The last flip sprouted pubic hair in 5 days and is flowering nicely.
About even with my girls in da sun!!!
Better that I had hoped, actually.

But, I'm not jumpin' on da woohoo wagon, just yet.
I have seen underlit plants thrive for a month jus' fine.
Then the lower limbs start dying when the buds swell.
And I'm not talkin' yer normal yellowing fan leaf.
They shrivel like an unwatered seedling.
Whole branches just up and die.

That's why I upped the power and switched to 660nm.
V-shell-c in about 8 more weeks.

Then, if bragging is in order...:D

I'm watching your progress with great interest.

Regards,
Weeze

Quote:

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Originally Posted by oldmac

Hey Weez,

...
Everyone here should beware! This is not a source of anything decent.

---

Second and third that. O. M.!

I like to think that they are more ignorant than predatory.
Keeps the steam in.:mad:, yah?:jointsmile:

Druther gently warn folks away than harsh my mellow.:hippy:
So I "do not attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by well meaning stupidity."

Aloha is aloha,:)
It goes around, and comes around.

Weezard

"Sneak over the fence tonight and plant a few seeds in his yard.
That'll tell you if he's a "friendly"."

That's a wonderful idea and I'm gonna see if I can work on a variant of it if I can come up with one. Mrs P and I sold our house and bought a condo when our kids grew up and married bout 20 years ago. What a dumb move in retrospect in so many, many ways...

But I do what I can with what I have. When I retire, all bets are off. We will be moving, hopefully with lots of land around us.

take care, Weezard,
MP

Quote:

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Just in case u get confused easily

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Well! That makes me wanna drop the pencil to my luxurious, thermostatically controlled name-brand soldering station (with digital readout) and rush off to order one of these high-tech marvels. :lol5:

Oldmac, got something funny 'bout dis person, I'll PM ya somewhere else!