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wierd...still wont let me post pics, keeps saying server timed out.....blumen, I am getting 5000 lumen across the room at the top of the pots. and the procyon is a lil bit stronger than the UFO. the UFO is 90w and the procyon is 100. few more reds. im definitely considering SCROG depending on how the girls look in about 2 weeks. it could only help if im not quite getting enough light.
Paht....that's great but the future needs to get cheaper.
Sounds like you've really studied this LED thing as well. Hope you do a log too that everyone can follow.
Everyone keeps saying this and it's true, of course. If I run my furnace at 50 degrees instead of 70, there's no doubt doing that will pay for itself very shortly. If I drive a Yugo, or Le Car instead of my 4x4 truck, that would soon pay for itself too. Fuck that noise, I don't want to freeze, I like big powerful vehicles, and I like my weed yields to be as large as possible, no matter what the savings are for smaller yields. These things that are less productive and less expensive to operate are great for some people. Personally I'll do what I can to increase yield.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paht_Hed
Do LED's cost less to run? Yes, much less. Do you get less weed using LED's? Yes, much less, unless you use about $5000 worth of light per plant. I hope I'm not bursting your bubble too much, but you're going to need about 10 or 15 of those 100-150 light arrays you are building, per plant, to see much of anything during flowering. If you've got the funds to try experiments, great. Good for you, but considering today's technology, it doesn't exactly make financial sense unless yield is not a concern for you.
Don't forget laws of physics people. Many have tried, and all have failed, to get more energy out of something than is put in.
Well I see his point if he just wants to see what they do and that makes sense. But I have to admit that the whole "taking one for the team" spirit confuses me a little in that I'm not exactly sure my team needed one taken.......
I disagree I think given the right wavelengths and at least 5,000 lumens per sq ft you could get as good of yields if not better than HID. There are HO LEDs that can put out over 130 lumens per watt. Order some 2 or 3 watt LEDs and fill a board with them. Yes it will be very expensive so if you want to start cheap then don't go LED. If you are looking to make/save more money in the long run LEDs are the way to go.
You can't compare a Procyon 100 OR a UFO LED to an HID lamp because they are both slightly if not way out of the spectrum that is needed for cannabis plants. The key to growing with LEDs since they can't yet match the lumens of an HID and still remain REASONABLY cost efficient is to hit precisely the spectrum needed for optimal growth. The Procyon 100 uses 40 635nm and 16 470nm CREE XLamp LEDs. The UFO LED lamp uses 20 455nm and 70 627nm of an unknown brand, at least to me, 1 watt LED. The light absorption by cannabis PEAKS at roughly 660 nm in the red at 90% absorption percentage in photosynthesis and 640 nm at 80% and 430 nm in the blue at 100% absorption percentage in photosynthesis and 465 nm at 80%. Now this is the combined photosynthesis of all pigments, chlorophyll-a,-b, and carotenoids. The indiviual pigments peak at 440nm at 64% and 660nm at 50% for -a, 465nm at 80% and 640nm at 30% for -b, and 445nm at 60% and 485nm at 58% for carotenoids. The advantage of LEDs is that you can get the EXACT spectrum you need where as with HID lamps you have a broader spectrum so you are wasting some of your lumens since they aren't usable in photosynthesis. I Haven't priced these specific LEDs needed. I am not worried about that right now but you can all expect to see an LED based grow soon. I would love to team up with some of you HID growers out there for some dual grows or something to have a variable.
:smokin:Peace, one love:smokin:
Try reducing the resolution size in your pics. (640x480)..the smaller size is easier to see here too.Quote:
wierd...still wont let me post pics, keeps saying server timed out.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paht_Hed
But at what cost, my dear man? Have you no conscience? Think of the lost lives!
I mean, I sure hope so, as I've said many times. No but really, at what cost to encase the plant in the light you speak of, and end up with some beauties?
Unfortunately it aint that simple. Please don't get me wrong, some of you guys seem fairly knowledgeable on the subject, and thanks for spending the time and money so we don't have to.
There are so many things to consider and study. I started, and I was all excited. I had no doubt that I was going to be the first one to come up with the exact perfect combination, since it didn't really seem like anyone else was interested in trying. Soon I began to realize that there is soooo much to study and learn, and a shitload of experiments that need to be done before even deciding what color LEDs to order. Oh yeah, I nearly forgot to mention the fact that in no way could I afford to make prototypes or even conduct necessary experiments. I needed plants, and I needed barrels of test LEDs. After a couple months of studying in some of my spare time, interest waned, at least in the dream of building my LED lighting empire. Itā??s still there, over in the corner in a box with some clothes on it, but I shut out itā??s muffled pleas to be released. I donā??t feel comfortable divulging the entire contents of the box at this time. As far as I know, some of the things in there are completely unique to the collection of grow LED ideas. I just thought it might be best to remove the temptation of borrowing part of one of my ideas for financial gain or dots of rep. Who knows? The box my spring a leak some day. Now, you guys have a go, and more power to you. And hereā??s some damn good advice, at least from my point of view: Try to think about some things you havenā??t previously.
In this thread and others Iā??ve said that I want you guys/gals to succeed, and hopefully within the next couple 3 years. Iā??ve also said several times that Iā??ve yet to see a side by side study in which the LED side came anywhere close. Please link me if someone else has.
And Phat, 5,000 lumens. How far from the plant? Lumens is a measurement of the light people see, not plants. But Iā??m sure you knew that. Is that close to what the plant sees at those nm?
So an array produces light at a hypothetical distance of 2 feet. It produces 8x as much light at 1 foot, and 16x as much at Ā½ foot. Is that how the inverse square law works? (been awhile). Hypothetically itā??s not producing enough light for the nice big dripping pieces of corn on the cob that you were hoping for, so you move it to 1 foot. OK good. Thatā??s getting results much closer to what you had in mind since itā??s getting 8 times more light. Oops, but where did the buds go on the surrounding areas of the grow? They nearly stopped growing, darn it. Since the manufacturer wanted to claim more light output than the competitor, they decided to use a 15 degree dispersal instead of 30. Sure glad that helps, but you have to go buy (incidentally exactly) 8 times more arrays to surround the one you lowered, so that all the plants can get light. So weā??ve gone from what $500, up to $4000? Aaaaallright! Awesome, thatā??s not too bad to hypothetically seem like a pioneering, cutting edge bad ass hero in the weed farming community. Uh oh. Damn it! Seems like this manufacture forgot that lights need a mixture of somewhere between 6 and 30 different reds to be as efficient as possible during flowering. Seems like they got the best test results during vegging and using blue lights, so thatā??s what most of their advertising and production efforts were concentrated on. So then you decide to get the lights from the other guys, since they advertise 30 degree bulbs for a wider coverage. It doesnā??t take more than 10 minutes after you set them up to realize that since the light is spread out twice as much, the grow is going to need twice as many to get the same amount of light. Iā??ll let you guys deal with this and much more.
NOTE: HYPOTHETICAL SITUATION EXAGGERATED FOR ILLUSTRATION PURPOSES.
[quote=Opie Yutts]
And Phat, 5,000 lumens. How far from the plant? Lumens is a measurement of the light people see, not plants. But Iā??m sure you knew that. Is that close to what the plant sees at those nm?
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5000 lm @ 16" to 18" with 2'x7' coverage=$1822 not 4000. (2' wide because of walls)
Just telling you what the tester reads if you think i'm wrong so be it.
Opie Yutts, What's up? Wavelenght's-is plural. Meaning many, There are 16.2 Billion different Colours you can blend with a LED!!! The extra energy from the correct spectrum is stored and then turns to suger which turn's to CB-THC. That's Botany 101. Later