"We Muslims Living in America are getting sick of this crap

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Originally Posted by GHoSToKeR

I think the point psychocat is trying to make, is that you shouldnt single-out one minority as violent, when just as much violence comes from other people and places.

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Islam produces violence. So what should I say about that so as to not offend sensitive people, that humans produce violence? Is that a broad enough stroke not to offend? I don't believe singling things out is such a bad thing. It helps to understand that singled out thing better. It doesn't make me hatefull to want to be spicific. What I have been saying is that islam creates violence. Without islam, there would be less violence. How many would blow themselves up to kill innocent people without islam? We can't say no to religion, but we can't let it rule us either. Will you stand up for Torog when he is singled out? Would you stand for his right to say those things you don't like? I would stand for a muslims right to worship, but I won't stand with their violence towards the innocent for any reason. Nor will I decieve myself into thinking islam is peacefull, when it's violence is all around us.

Toker

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Originally Posted by Libertarian Toker

Sure thing boss, I'll try to stay on topic for ya. What was that topic anyway? My fence sitting, or Torogs hate? Maybe it was the sarcasim you still seem to be missing?

"Now if you can forget your petty little beef with the way you interpret everything that is said"

Well ok, but only if you promise to be a good boy also. Your first reply to me was an attack, if you attack me, I will defend. BTW, every time you claim I am sitting on some fence, you show how much you don't comprehend what you read.

"As for my other statements about the muslims feeling threatened , the fanatics don't just wear headscarfs and praise allah , they also take shape in the klan and others like them ."

And so you think what, that this somehow excuses islams violence? I don't get the whole comparing thing. Do you really feel if others do it too, that it is ok to do? That is a strange way of thinking, and it has been around a lot lately.

Toker

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My first comment was a light hearted comment which you chose to be obsessed with , you're obviously incapable of escaping your prejudices about muslims , and at no point did I advocate violence in any form perpetrated by anyone.You certainly have made no attempt to answer the charge that muslims in the US are afraid of what can only be described as religious persecution.

http://gbgm-umc.org/Response/articles/USMuslim.html

If I wanted to attack you personally I would do so but since you are really only guilty of pettyness it would be equally petty of me to carry this any further , so I will put this in as plain a manner as possible.
Go away little boy !!

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Originally Posted by Libertarian Toker

Will you stand up for Torog when he is singled out? Would you stand for his right to say those things you don't like?

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Yes, I would. If you take a look at the thread entitled "this is not a porn site", you will see that i'm the only person standing up for free-speech, when everybody else is asking for certain people to be banned for talking about a very taboo subject.

I don't like some of the things that Torog says, and i'm sure he - among many others - doesn't like some of the things that I say; such is life. But, there are a number of subjects that i'm sure Torog and I, and you and I, agree on. Just because i'm saying I dont like what Torog posted at the beginning of this thread, doesn't mean I have any hatred, animosity, or anger towards him, and I still think he and you are valued members of this community.

Many of the discussions i've had with Torog have ended in one of us saying 'Let's agree to disagree', and that's probably the best thing to do in this circumstance. We're all human, and we all have opinions and egos, so no two persons are ever going to completely agree, especially when we're talking about opinionated people such as ourselves. lol :)

"My first comment was a light hearted comment which you chose to be obsessed with"

Really??? Your story seems to change a bit as you go. Are you sure it was "light harted" as you say? If it was, why wait until now to say it was?

"you're obviously incapable of escaping your prejudices about muslims"

Calling islam violent is not being prejudice. It's being truthfull.

"and at no point did I advocate violence in any form perpetrated by anyone."

Did I say you did? I said you were excusing it. Maybe your not able to keep form making untrue statements because the truth won't work for ya! If you change the words, you change the meaning. If you have to change the meaning of what I say, then there might be something wrong with your arguement in the fist place.

"You certainly have made no attempt to answer the charge that muslims in the US are afraid of what can only be described as religious persecution."

http://gbgm-umc.org/Response/articles/USMuslim.html

You have one article that your basing your "religious persecution" claim on? To bad for you that it is not like that here. It does show that your belief system is based on what you want to think is happening here, much more then it is truth.

If I wanted to attack you personally I would do so but since you are really only guilty of pettyness it would be equally petty of me to carry this any further , so I will put this in as plain a manner as possible.
Go away little boy !!

Go away??? Awww, do I have to? Come on man, can't I stay a little longer? You being the big man you are, surely you could spare me over to another day?

Toker

http://www.progressiveaustin.org/atakmusl.htm
This is all untrue??
http://www.religioustolerance.org/reac_ter1.htm
http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/...5427525.htm?1c
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2001/se...-s15_prn.shtml

Hysteria was always my least favourite human trait.
The truth is the negative imprinting (media brainwashing) is so wrong , the US born japanese were locked away after pearl harbour , how long will it be before the idiots decide "well we better lock up all the muslims now before they do anything"?
I don't believe all americans are racist bigots but nor do I believe they're all nice guys , I know how some folk just can't think for themselves and the evidence is there showing that incidents of persecution are occuring.

Your articles are rather outdated don't you think? And they are struggling to find things in them to claim are racialy motivated attacks. If you think what we did a few days after 9/11 is bad, have a look at what Amsterdam did a few days after the muslim killed the movie director van gouh. What's untrue about your claim of religious persecution in the US is that in order for your claim to be true, it would have to be orginized, which it is not. Islam is orginized hate that produces violence. It's not hard to understand, but you do need to be trying to understand.

"The truth is the negative imprinting (media brainwashing) is so wrong , the US born japanese were locked away after pearl harbour , how long will it be before the idiots decide "well we better lock up all the muslims now before they do anything"?"

What good does it do you to exagerate things so far out of porportion? There is "imprinting" in all forms of media. Do you have a certain form of media that you find truthfull, and unbiased? If so, what is that form of media? No one is wanting to "lock all muslims up now". Your view is obviously bent in some strange direction for your own personal resons. Can you find me a more recent list of muslims being "persecuted" in the US just for being muslims?

"I don't believe all americans are racist bigots but nor do I believe they're all nice guys , I know how some folk just can't think for themselves and the evidence is there showing that incidents of persecution are occuring."

You know there is a difference between what islam is doing, and what happened in responce to 9/11. There is no ongoing systematic persecution of muslims in the US, and your very own "evidence" is proof of that. You have very few, very isolated cases, that popped up after a very very bad attack on the US. That should be cause to praise US for the restraint and understanding of our people, yet people like you demand perfection. If they don't get it, they claim persecution. Did you check to see what became of the cases you dug up? Charged with a hate crime one of them was. More then likely he's still in jail. Pesecution??? Yeah right! Does Islam produce violence? It sure does.

Toker