Do you support a war against IRAN?
Quote:
Originally Posted by thcbongman
On a long-term economic level, it would bring benefits to both Iran and the US if happened. Fortunately, I don't think America has the resources to carry it out. Besides, with the resources tied up in Iraq, they could not sustain this without printing more money, cutting the interest rates further.
Once Iraq is rebuilt under U.S. occupation, it could cause their economy to prosper, and benefit ours, since they'll be dollars being pumped into our economy. I don't think the troops should withdraw, we should not submit to our opponents. I didn't say enemy, because I don't believe they are, but the fact is they're killing our soldiers, and our soldiers are killing them. We shouldn't waste this occupation without getting some gains in return.
This occupation in Iraq is just a part of a huge economic battle going on in the world. I don't think Bush has much of a choice. Oil is the bloodline of this economy, 90% of the items in your room, made with plastic, and transported using gasoline. Your home could be heated by heating oil. Until there is an alternative resource that could run transportation AND be able to produce plastic efficiently, it's important to secure the resources. I believe this war has prolonged the inevitable, another depression. It'll happen.
I remember 10 years ago, the dollar was worth something. You could go to Europe and get more value for your good. The U.S. also had much cheaper goods as well.
Inflation increasing slight each year. A weak dollar. Decreased purchasing power, widening trade deficit. The writing is on the wall.
They'll be a crash, and you better be prepared for it. Likely won't happen for another 5-10 years, but it will.
A war with Iran could save us later on. It's sick, but war could bring great economic benefits.
On a moral level, a war with Iran is absolutely sick. I don't believe a nation should provoke another war with another country to steal their resources. But since Bush is taking us on a hell bound bath, might as well. The consequences of an economic collapse in the USA would be far worse.
Hmmm Don't quite understand your economic theory here. How do you think going into another war will bring us out of an economic problem? Wars cost billions of dollars that we don't have to fund. The idea is to pay off our national debt not create more, and that is just what a war will do. If you really want to stop an economic catastrophe just do away with the FED, and limit the size of government. The whole Fed process is nothing but a way to bankrupt the country. We spend all our lives paying money towards a debt that can't be paid off. The more money they print to fund a war the more value our dollar loses, and higher interest, and taxes.
Do you support a war against IRAN?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrenaline Rush
Nevertheless, I would back the US in a war against IRAN for the simple fact that they have admitted to producing a nuclear program for other purposes other than military combat.
This is assuming we could win against Iran, but don't you ever think of the possibility that we could loose? Is it really worth the risk? And even if we did win, we would certainly harm our ties with Russia and China who are against a war with Iran, and the last thing we want are those 2 guys as enemies.
Seems like most people that support a war with Iran are naive to the fact that we could actually loose everything we have fought for for 200+ years. Until we find out Iran is planning an attack against US soil, no war on Iran. We don't have the military capability to do so.
Do you support a war against IRAN?
Quote:
Originally Posted by epxroot
Hmmm Don't quite understand your economic theory here. How do you think going into another war will bring us out of an economic problem? Wars cost billions of dollars that we don't have to fund. The idea is to pay off our national debt not create more, and that is just what a war will do. If you really want to stop an economic catastrophe just do away with the FED, and limit the size of government. The whole Fed process is nothing but a way to bankrupt the country. We spend all our lives paying money towards a debt that can't be paid off. The more money they print to fund a war the more value our dollar loses, and higher interest, and taxes.
exactly, wars cause inflation, which is bad when your currency is just paper, that's been inflating since the day it was unconstitutionally created out of thin air.
Do you support a war against IRAN?
Quote:
Originally Posted by epxroot
Hmmm Don't quite understand your economic theory here. How do you think going into another war will bring us out of an economic problem? Wars cost billions of dollars that we don't have to fund. The idea is to pay off our national debt not create more, and that is just what a war will do. If you really want to stop an economic catastrophe just do away with the FED, and limit the size of government. The whole Fed process is nothing but a way to bankrupt the country. We spend all our lives paying money towards a debt that can't be paid off. The more money they print to fund a war the more value our dollar loses, and higher interest, and taxes.
That's exactly what we are doing now. We are printing money for this war. This conflict in Iraq prevented what could've been a recession of magnitude because Bush artificially propped up the economy.
See war brings in revenue. The government has to pay someone for the various services involved, producing guns, skematics, etc. etc. etc. In this day and age, much of this funding is given to contractors, at a cheaper and more efficient cost. Largely the companies would be American, and that's dollars being pumped back into the economy to other sectors. That's exactly what Theodore Roosevelt did, using socialistic programs to create jobs to pump dollars into the economy for the war effort. And it worked. Not long after the war, the 50s was a very prosperous time for America.
The 2nd reason is because Iran has abundant oil resources. They would be able to recoup some of the losses in the long-term, if we are victorious. If we went to war with let's say Rwanda. Morally, it would be a great thing to do, but what does the US have to gain? Absolutely nothing, that'll bankrupt them.
The danger is inflation is hard to control, and once it starts really rolling, it's hard to stop and can have major consequences, ala Argentina. I agree with you, that the ideal way would be to be fiscally responsible, and reduce the size of the government. None of it is happening. The way the economy is structured...war is the eject button.
Do you support a war against IRAN?
Quote:
Originally Posted by thcbongman
That's exactly what we are doing now. We are printing money for this war. This conflict in Iraq prevented what could've been a recession of magnitude because Bush artificially propped up the economy.
See war brings in revenue. The government has to pay someone for the various services involved, producing guns, skematics, etc. etc. etc. In this day and age, much of this funding is given to contractors, at a cheaper and more efficient cost. Largely the companies would be American, and that's dollars being pumped back into the economy to other sectors. That's exactly what Theodore Roosevelt did, using socialistic programs to create jobs to pump dollars into the economy for the war effort. And it worked. Not long after the war, the 50s was a very prosperous time for America.
The 2nd reason is because Iran has abundant oil resources. They would be able to recoup some of the losses in the long-term, if we are victorious. If we went to war with let's say Rwanda. Morally, it would be a great thing to do, but what does the US have to gain? Absolutely nothing, that'll bankrupt them.
The danger is inflation is hard to control, and once it starts really rolling, it's hard to stop and can have major consequences, ala Argentina. I agree with you, that the ideal way would be to be fiscally responsible, and reduce the size of the government. None of it is happening. The way the economy is structured...war is the eject button.
I understand what you are trying to explain to me. The problem is it just doesn't work like that today. If you think that I am wrong just look at our current society. Unemployment has not drop much at all since this war started, the price of gas has done nothing but rise since this war started, our dollar is doing nothing but depreciating, we're going more in debt, our federal spending is out of control, the middle/poor class is slowly dieing. The only people this war is helping is the major corporations who supply it, but the problem is the CEO's and other high level executives do not allow the money to trickle down to the people who make the money for the corporation they just suck it up and act like there is nothing wrong with a CEO making 500 times more than the m employee who dedicates most his life to the company.
The difference between the 50's and today is the economy was a lot stronger, our dollar had more value, companies were not going over seas, our federal spending was not so out of control, illegal immigration was not as big of a problem and there are many others to list. These are some of the reasons why it was a prosperous time, but as you see those days are not here anymore. Like I said we are in a whole different economical era.
Do you support a war against IRAN?
Ok here's the end all, be all of this thread. If you smoke marijuana, have an account on this forum, and are posting that you support war in ANY way shape or form, you're full of shit. Fuck Israel, Fuck Iran, Fuck Iraq, FUCK THE MIDDLE EAST. I dont give a shit anymore. You want to get nukes? Then start a fucking fight. Let them kill each other. If we get nuked, so be it, theres not shit we can do about it. Sure we could attack Iran, and we'll BOTH get really fucked up, then someone will launch a bomb, the other side will retaliate. Besides, Aminawhatchawhosit won't do shit. He might be crazy, but he isn't a dumbass. I honestly, truely believe we are the most likely to nuke anyone. Know why? Fear. It's fear that drives us, fear for our lives, as if ours meant any more than theirs. As far as i'm concerned, fuck the whole world. If you want a war, go right ahead and kill yourself and everyone else. I'll sit here with a fat ass Jay and give you all a nice big finger. When a mushroom clound lights up in my town, oh well. None of it matters, I've given up hope on most of humanity. As long as i can smoke my bud, i honestly dont give a shit what the world is up to too much.
Do you support a war against IRAN?
Quote:
Originally Posted by epxroot
I understand what you are trying to explain to me. The problem is it just doesn't work like that today. If you think that I am wrong just look at our current society. Unemployment has not drop much at all since this war started, the price of gas has done nothing but rise since this war started, our dollar is doing nothing but depreciating, we're going more in debt, our federal spending is out of control, the middle/poor class is slowly dieing. The only people this war is helping is the major corporations who supply it, but the problem is the CEO's and other high level executives do not allow the money to trickle down to the people who make the money for the corporation they just suck it up and act like there is nothing wrong with a CEO making 500 times more than the m employee who dedicates most his life to the company.
The difference between the 50's and today is the economy was a lot stronger, our dollar had more value, companies were not going over seas, our federal spending was not so out of control, illegal immigration was not as big of a problem and there are many others to list. These are some of the reasons why it was a prosperous time, but as you see those days are not here anymore. Like I said we are in a whole different economical era.
I don't think you are wrong about the current economic state. I predicted a market crash in 5-10 years for those very reasons you listed. Read my first post again. I mention those same points. What we disagree on is whether war is an effective economic stimulus.
But what do you think CEOs do with their money? Stash it under a mattress? Realistically, they invest it, start new ventures, which creates new jobs. CEOs are definitely getting overpaid, but they don't just suddenly decide "I made enough money." They strive to make more money. One way or another, they're being pumped back into the economy whether it's through securities, or paying for services
Take a look at the Dow Jones average. Notice how it declined until precisely March 2003. Then the trend start an incline. As I mentioned earlier, it's propped up artificially through the war. But my point is what goes up must come down. The cost for this stimulus is major loss of purchasing power, and the weakening of the dollar We eventually have to pay for it. And presently the problem.
I'm not saying it'll solve our problems to go into Iran the next day, but if the economy goes into a freefall, it's can be an effective economic stimulus if well-managed.
If I ruled America, I'd have a very fiscally responsible budget, cut the size of the government, especially defense, and wasteful social programs. I'd run America very much like Switzerland and not involve war.
The problem is America is too deep in shit trying to police the world. We are now engaging in an economic battle with emerging economic powerhouses: EU, China, Russia, and India. All of them have the potential to overtake America.
Do you support a war against IRAN?
I have HUGE concerns about Iran, but I just don't think we have the troops or resourcees to go in. The mistakes from the current war in Iraq & Afghanistan have yet to be resolved, so they will just be replicated in Iran. Our military is stretched way too thin.
GO BEARS !;)
Do you support a war against IRAN?
Quote:
...as far as i know the usa don't go around preaching hate. we are the ones trying to keep the peace. why would it be ok for iran or any other for that matter to be able to have nukes when they are nothin but a place full of hate? i know the usa is alot of things but we are also the ones trying to keep the peace. and for magical herb there is a way thats better than war.it's called working together. but thats when both sides want pretty much the same thing.and u can't reason with a mad man.and if a mad man is trying to spread hate and trying to cause an uprising in his own peoplewhat r u to do but take him out? when is enough?
lets see we and most of the world want peace. iran and everyone else in that area wants control. as they have always have as u can see how they live. and people might not want to face this fact but there biggest beef over there and has been for thousands of years is a lil tiny place called israel. it is what they all want over there and have been fighting over it for years. that is what this is all about as u hear them say over and over it's a holy war to them. they all want to claim israel and who has always backed israel?
i think the usa, so in order to get to there goal what do u think they would do?the thing is the reason they never complete there goal is because all the diffrent tribes over there i.e iran, Afghanistan,iraq, and Syria among the others are always fighting as to who gets it .they all want it.i know u don't want to hear it but thats it in a nut shell.
the funny thing is it's all in the last book of the bible.and i know i'll be the outcast now and i'll be labeled a bible thumper but not really the diffrence between me and the (bible thumpers)are i use my own brain they listen to some guy in a church that preaches the same thing over and over.
it's been coming and it's not over the only way is when we go over there and erase them where ever there is a seed of hate it will be wide spread in a very lil time.
Palerider--I know you are smart (because you have told us so over and over again), so I am sure your utter lack of reason and blind faith in America is not true hypocrisy, but an accidental hypocrisy born from your uncontrolled Religious Nationalism--Christianity/U.S.A. I know you are a true American, for you place Syria, Iran, Iraq, and Afghanistan in the same sentence as if they were one big happy family with a single vision.
I am an American too, but I am not proud of it. I appreciate its good points, and cry myself to sleep over its ugliness. Of course, American is the best place to live if you want something. But try to think about what is required from the rest of the world in order to maintain our standards of living. There would be no America without the third world, world poverty/famine, and wars. Pride is a no-no in every religion known to man.
It seems that you are very upset about 911--a terrible tragedy of course--but it does not come close to the decimation unleashed on her previous inhabitants and the captives of the middle passage that built her, the nukes over Japan, or the bombing of Dresden, or the collateral damage in Iraq (all of it was collateral damage)...even that the American government sponsored tobacco companies unleash more death and dismemberment upon their own citizenry as to make a grown man cry.
Of course, we are all sickened by 911, but America has a deal with Saudi Arabia--we keep getting cheepish oil, and they will not be fucked with over their terrorism. That is the game. There is an understanding. So while I do not believe the U.S. had a direct role in the 911 attack, they sure as hell are culpable. A machine has many parts, and each part is equally responsible for the actions the machine carries out.
I understand that it is easier to lay blame, when the terrorist is something far off, but the one and only true champion of Terrorism of all time is the Western Economic Machine. How can I, as an American, say this? I just live here, man. I was born here without my permission, and I must live with the hand I was dealt, but that does not mean I have to love everything that happens in America, or because of America. America. America. America. America. America. America. Big woop! I am supposed to worship a flag and a government that pisses on its own people and constitution (sounds like some kind of a third world thing)? What is this part of America that is so wonderful? Mom? Apple pie? Picnics? Baseball? That is all advertising, and we deserve to be punished for only wanting such a plastic lifestyle. Get out of that loop and be a person, Palerider. Do not let yourself be branded. America, the brave has been bought and sold. The America you speak of does not exist; it never did. America, the corporation, does not care about spreading freedom anymore. We only care about security.
What was the original question?...oh yes: No War in Iran! Iran is not a threat, fraidy cats! Russia was never even a threat. The cold war was a hoax. All of these fear campaigns are always driven by the global economic control mechanism. America is just going to have to get poorer for the health of the world, and stop scrambling for the wealth. We do not deserve a television in every room, and a car for every family member. We have been taking more than we deserve for centuries, and there is no legitimate argument as to why we deserve it over anybody else.
Death count 911--3000
[align=center] Annual Causes of Death in the United States 2000
[/align]
[align=center] Tobacco 435,000 Poor Diet and Physical Inactivity 365,000 Alcohol 85,000 Microbial Agents 75,000 Toxic Agents 55,000 Motor Vehicle Crashes 26,347 Adverse Reactions to Prescription Drugs 32,000 Suicide 30,622 Incidents Involving Firearms 29,000 Homicide 20,308 Sexual Behaviors 20,000 All Illicit Drug Use, Direct and Indirect 17,000 , 5 Non-Steroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drugs Such As Aspirin 7,600 Marijuana 0
[/align]
Are we going to war over death, or is it ideology? From looking at the numbers, it seems that Blackwater "contractors" (Tr. Mercenaries) should be kicking in the doors of tobacco executives. Bunker busters should be dropped on the mansions of fast food executives. We should be offering $1,000,000 rewards for the recovery of known pharmaceutical executives who are using the proceeds from selling their prescription poisons to finance global terrorism (the continued eradication of natural remedies and their support of the war on drugs which imprisons some of our best minds)...and these microbial agents...What kind of Jihad is that? So no, I do not support any more bullshit fucking wars sketched up on cocktail napkins by special interest think tanks, fake Texans, and blind patriots to the scripted American dream!!
Do you support a war against IRAN?
I love how the U.S can openly possess nuclear technology, but no one else is allowed to. The Iranian government has repeatedly made compromise offers to place strict limits on its nuclear program beyond what the Non-Proliferation Treaty and the Additional Protocol legally require of Iran, in order to ensure that the program cannot be secretly diverted to the manufacture of weapons. As for the intel that the US has provided to the United Nations IAEA about Iran's nuclear program, most of it has proven to be inaccurate, and none of it has led to significant discoveries in Iran.
The US Nuclear Posture Review which was made public for any citizen in the world to read envisioned the use of nuclear weapons on a first strike basis, even against non-nuclear armed states. The US has repeatedly refused to rule out nuclear first strikes against non-nuclear opponents. This policy is in clear violation of the US Negetive Security Assurance, which pledged not to use nuclear weapons against non-nuclear members of the NPT (Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty) of which Iran is a part of. So if the US doesnt want to abide by the rules, why should anyone else have to? So the current administration's stance in the world playground (IMO) is either you become our bitch, or we'll nuke you. I suppose the one good thing that has come from this "war on terror" is that I can now buy cheap goods from the states!
