Oldmac Hi! yes some Leds are rated in kelvin look here:
LedEngin, Inc.
I'm sure one could order a better color temp 2700k/6500k
:rasta::rasta::rasta:
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Oldmac Hi! yes some Leds are rated in kelvin look here:
LedEngin, Inc.
I'm sure one could order a better color temp 2700k/6500k
:rasta::rasta::rasta:
Hey veggii,
Your right, in the last year we are starting to see Kelvin and terms like "warm" and "cool" white applied to LEDs.
Unfortunately for me the warm whites I picked to use for an experiment did not work well and had me confused......untill I saw the device tested @ the LED museum and saw the spectrograph. A real neg spike at the blue range and min far red. It was makeing most of it white in the orange amber green ranges, not the broad curve of a fluoro.
They have made and will continue to make great improvements in high power LEDs especially the whites that currently have so many applications. Spectral analysis is a must.
Cree, Inc., a leader in LED solid-state lighting components, has announced that Guangzhou Multi-Cell Semiconductor Lighting Technology Co., Ltd. (Multi-Cell) is installing energy-saving, solar-powered streetlights based on Creeâ??s XLamp XR-E power LEDs. Multi-Cell is demonstrating its new XR-E LED-based streetlight product with a 20-light project in Guangzhou, China.
NEMA - Cree XLamp® XR-E LEDs Chosen for Solar-Powered Streetlights
Not spamming here... just thought I'd drop some info... Always figured that when they started replacing street lights with LEDs things would start getting very interesting for growers. GO CREE.
those flow magic inline leds are the same design I made.:wtf:
Agro LED Inline
Hey check this out. i think your right. the bottom seems to serve as the oxygen and carbon dioxide exchange area, and photosynthesis on the top.
I got my Procyon 100 last Monday. I'll post pictures of some of my ladies as soon as I get my kid to get off the bong and take a picture.
hey melskid-
is there anyway you can take apart your procyon and take pictures of the circuitry? ive been dying to see it but can not find any resources online about that. i think there it 4 screws that take the two side panels off. then you should be able to get inside. im just trying to get an idea how the procyon has its power management hooked up.:rastasmoke:
Got mine today from fleabay. :D Took it apart and snapped some pics.. Could not take it all the way apart due to some technical difficulties, meaning the led light circuit board was glued to the aluminum heatsink so could not pry it off and take a look at the back of the board.Quote:
Originally Posted by physicsnole
Now... Question is where do I put the pics? Do not see where I can include it here.
When I reassembled it did break off one piece but plugged it in and still works. Not sure what the piece was for, maybe a thermostat? Probably can't call them up and say "hey, lookie what I broke, can you fix it?"....
Back on topic.. Very very nice buds SnS.... :rasta:
Whites work just fine. You can get any color white you want in an LED, and there are many that are rated in kelvin. If you carefully read the specifications for a white made by a reputable manufacturer you will see that like other forms of lighting, LEDs have a dominant color, or color temperature, and a spectrum of others. This spectrum is the only reason to frown on whites for plant lighting. It is wasted energy, like the energy that is wasted in an HID light. That doesn't mean the plants won't grow, it just means that the most desired color is not the dominant one. Most people believe that colored LEDs don't have a spectrum, but that's far from true. It's just that the spectrum in single color LEDs is not as varied as it is in whites. For example a 660 nm LED has a spectrum from about 620 to 700, and it is wasting energy in the same sense that whites do.
One thing that we can do with LED whites that we can't with other forms of white light is change the color. Again look at the specs, and notice that the LED is rated to be any color from, for example 3000K to 10,000K. Again this is only the dominant color, and it all depends on what kind of current you supply, plus a few other less significant factors.
Much as I don't like those sites, here they are.... gotta like being a noob..
Pictures of Procyon 100 innards
Hope you don't mind me posting this in your thread SnS...
On one of the pics of the board (#1 I think) put a tag on the thing I broke. Pic was taken before it got broken so if anyone has ideas on what i can do to fix it that would be good. It is the thing with two wires attached to it.
Thank you sooo much:thumbsup: that is awesome. thats just what i needed. could you take a picture of the writing on the capacitor the big round black thing on the bottom left. im just want to assure to myself that what i am doing will work and im not gonna waste alot of money. thanks you thank you thank you:thumbsup::hippy::rastasmoke:
Hey Opie;
Whites work just fine?
Wish I had talked to you a year ago. Could have saved a little money and a lot of time.
Whites have come a long way baby, a very good example is the Cree XR-c warm white.
On paper it has good specs; 2,600-3,700 degree K. In it's spectral output it has a spike at abt. 440-450nm (output of die) and second larger curve (phospher reaction) that does go up 630-640nm.
Many LED's in the warm white, spike at 375-425 and have a reaction curve that stops short of red. Makes it's white enrgy in the orange-amber-green. No usable blue very little usable red. Yet it is a "warm white". They can even have Kelvin numbers that look good.
Even with the cree's, I want to see a independent spectral graph of them before I invest in trying them. Fell in that hole once.
Hope you can understand what I was trying to say, sometimes this is all too much for an old man.
Thanks a bunch for those photos. I know it takes a little time and effort to publish those. Sorry I don't know what the broken thing is. Is it the little black thing with 2 black wires? Can you get a close up or tell us what the lettering on it says? Glad the light still works though.Quote:
Originally Posted by kutchc
I certainly understand.
Check out this white about 1/3 down the page, CCS100A. It has a spike in blue and red, almost exactly where peak chlorophyll activity is. Looks like 465 ad 645. I'd like to see someone explain why this white is not good for growing plants. If I could only choose one LED to grow with, this might be it. http://www.bocaflasher.com/pdf/photo...2006-05-22.pdf
Great buds SnS!!! Makes my mouth water looking at it.
Please let me know if I should make a new thread.
However, info for the capacitor is as follows (my camera didn't take good closeups, not even good enough to read).
White stripe down the middle with 2 black rectangles in it
Left hand side of strip, top to bottom with light upside down
450V
220uf (funny looking u or upside down h)
722006 (M)
450V
220uf (funny looking u or upside down h)
Right hand side of strip, top to bottom with light upside down
HC
M CE (M is bolded and in a single line box with rounded corners)
+105 C
HC
M CE (M is bolded and in a single line box with rounded corners)
Regarding the thing I broke.
Hard to say really (think need a magnifying glass which don't have) but best guess:
3 lines
F1l t1
70-0 C
D6 (not sure if 5,6, or 8. kinda looks like 6)
There was also powder in the hole when i took screw out and also looks to be some type of metal strip embedded in that plastic.
I sense I may not be around much longer to say this, so I might as well get it over with:
Why not try to find a volume discount on one type of white LED and see if you can build a stronger white light for the same price as all the fiddly 10-different-wavelength plans? So what if it's a few watts hungrier than the others for the same effect?
I wouldn't mind experimenting with all white LEDs in the future.. (like perhaps one all-white grow vs. a multi-color fixture of the same cost to build) I just won't be posting about it on this forum, most likely. Too much bitch-fighting around here. (not specifically in this thread) If you have any other good places to discuss new LED options, hopefully I'll see you there when the time comes.
Used to be on a forum for some seed bank, that got rolled over into some other larger forum eventually. I don't remember it being quite so bitchy as it is around here.. but hey, it's been years. Anyway, good luck with the LEDs. Rated a bunch of these threads up for ya while I could.
Opie,Quote:
Originally Posted by Opie Yutts
I took one look at that ccs100a, and the (LED) light bulb went on over my head.
That is a RGB based white....it has no phosphar coating. Three dies (red,green,blue) produce the spikes w/ corresponding curve. This would be far superior to hitting 'specific' light wave length.
I see no reson why this one should not work.
When I get a chance latter I hope to look further at the rest of the specs for that ccs100a.
Thanks for engaging me in thinking about this.
Ideas are starting to flow in my mind...gotta slow it down and vape a bowl.
Yo BlueBong;Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueBong
I really hope you don't leave. I'm new here too, and have been feeling my way around; been readin' more then postin' and have mixed feelings but have hope for the exchange of knowledge.
I was active on an other MJ site, in LED discussions for a few months. Problem was too much of the crap "China" panel questions and such. It seemed everyday more and more people where asking about so-called "LED grow lights" that where shit or someone was humping and spamming some crap porduct. There wound up being more mis-infomation then usable dialogue.
Funny when someone talks about the "perfect" LED light, it really should be a white light. And it should be full spectrum white light....evrything the sun has to offer. But part of the economy of use with LED is the ability to tailor WL nm. Actually the white LED Opie just referenced contains a spectral graph that really shows one LED putting out two nice red/blue spikes. Or check out LedEngin 10w LED in both RGB and RAGB.
Maybe we should start another thread?
Have you done any LED experiments so far Blue?
I haven't messed with LEDs yet, beyond trivial use. The only LEDs I have laying around pre-date the availability of 1w and above LEDs. Totally useless to the discussion, in other words.. just some random Radio Shack junk.. although I can make some nifty "eyes" with two reds and an old watch battery..
If I do a normal grow using LEDs, I'm thinking about 1 Procyon with a pair of 2-lamp 2x- or 4x-overdriven T12 P&A 4-footers in a slightly larger than 4'x4' space.
I have no money to spare right now and I'm bone dry here, (and in a lot of pain) so anything I do will be the next time I get some spare cash. I thought about making 2' and 4' fixtures (similar in dimension to the typical simple boxy T12/T8 1-light or 2-light fixtures of the same length) out of the best white LEDs I could get my hands on once I have the money.. but that may be some time off yet. Still have work to do to my car, my truck, and my house.. but in time, I'll do the white LED experiment.
I want to say the place I used to visit was Heaven's Stairway.. and I think there was an old forum there before it got folded into overgrow.. but I haven't kept up on "weed society" since those days, so I have no idea what the name of the place really was. I could be completely and embarrassingly wrong on that one. It's irrelevant, anyway. Been years now.
I came here thinking it would be nicer to deal with only people who smoke, since some of the other places I've discussed weed on were full of "DARE kiddies" and "DARE 20-somethings" who just had to tell us every day about how we're all bad people and should go to jail.. but it seems like every other day some argument is breaking out in SnStealth's thread, for example.
I think I'm annoyed because, while I admit I have some pretty toxic views on the human race, I was kinda hoping a forum full of fellow stoners would go some way towards quelling my growing rage against the species.. I didn't think coming here would help reinforce those toxic views. (there seem to be some decent people here, they're just drowned out by all the shouty angry ones)
Anyway, I'll keep an eye on what's available in white LEDs and spend some of my idle time on fleshing out the idea a bit. Not just design, but how to test different setups at the same time.
:wtf:Quote:
Originally Posted by physicsnole
Quote:
Originally Posted by kutchc
"hey look this piece broke how do I fix it ,,and can it run without the piece safely You don't want to burn it up !! ???
:rasta::rasta::rasta:
" must have 50 posts to attach pics to post"
man... I have been looking n looking for some of those "eyes" :DQuote:
Originally Posted by BlueBong
BlueBong;
Little 5mm LED's do work and have applications now. I think they can do things the hi-power LEDs can't...like a shelf that has only 16" clearance. I have a 2'x8' shelf that I use for transplanting my clones or seedlings into RW blocks. I veg them under 5mm panels until they are 8-12". Works just as well as fluro, and I use 198w vs. the 420w fluro.
Plus I made my own 5mm panels heavy on the blue for my clone/seed trays.
BTW: I can not recommend enough IceCap fluro ballast if you like to over-drive tubes.
Holy crap a T5 4' goes to 85watts! AND big plus; opens use of regular T5 bulbs and there is a greater K's to choose. I digressed.
Now to those "eyes". Did you ever make stickies?
A few years back I got a few thosand cheap LED's in multi-colors, alot of reds and blues. I got small magnets and batteries and shipping tape. Gathered up my grandkids who where in HS and about 20 of their friends, and made over 2,700 stickies. Then took them all to town hall and had them sticky the ugly steel sculpture there. Great fun, but got in a shit load of trouble with my daughter, son-in-law, and a bunch of parents.
call it education veggi. i am in no way going to reverse engineer the procyon in any manner, i simply wanted to learn (hmm not learn, ive already learned all this in physics, but more reassurance that im not gonna fuck up and blow 400W of LEDs) the fundamentals of power supply as my array is going to require a much larger power supply. all i wanted to see in the pic was the components used (was wondering if they used an inductor or not), so i have somewhat of an idea where to start. I have a completely different thermal management plan than the procyon, completely different circuit, different LEDs, different wavelengths, different ratios, so I am in fact creating a unique array.Quote:
Originally Posted by veggii
The bitching around here seems to come and go, kind of like the tide. Don't forget you always have an ignore button, both for this forum and your brain. This forum has its problems, but it's kind of like the USA. Sure it sucks, but it's still the best.Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueBong
I know I have an ignore button. I even mentioned it once in SnS's LED grow log, but it got deleted with the random arguing, whenever someone got around to cleaning it up.
The problem is, there's at least one mod I'd need to use it on in addition to some normal users, and boards don't generally allow you to put mods/admins on the big iggy. I'm using my mental ignore button on that one.
hey blu
ya gotta remember on any public forums there will be Jerks.
I call them "pissing contests" It is best not to enter these contests
becaue they are like "PISSING IN THE WIND" Just ignore them
Ha. That's a good way of putting it. There are jerks and assholes in every aspect of life, just like there are occasionally some decent people. This will happen no matter where we go or what we do. There's not a whole lot we can do about it, and trying to change it ends up getting piss on our legs. I've been really angry at this forum a couple times in the past, and specifically a mod or two.Quote:
Originally Posted by veggii
If you think it's bad now, you should have seen how extremely unfair some mods were before we got an infraction system, and some other things ironed out a little. I got so pissed I took nearly a year off from this forum, and when I came back things were not perfect but they were much better. One blessing you can count is the fact that we no longer live in a time where it's perfectly fine for a mod to ban someone "for any or no reason". (Notice the quotes.)
I can empathize with you. I believe that at some point I have felt very similar to the way you (BlueBong) are feeling. If you go through life bothered too much by the negative or idiotic things people do, it will adversely affect the quality of your life. There is so much negativity and idiocy that you cannot avoid it unless you are a hermit or stranded somewhere. I know it's hard, but we need to constantly strive for patience, understanding and love or we'll all go crazy real fast. If that doesn't work, then I go into ignore mode. If that doesn't work, well I'll just say the next steps may be illegal.
When you use red and blue LED's together, don't the two spectrums cohere? I believe it creates a bell curve between the blue and red spectrum. It follows the theory of RGB light, you mix them and get white, you mix red and blue, you get a purplish-red (at least with LEDs and their high red to blue count).
The plants do use more than one wavelength, but can they survive on one wavelength? It depends, I hear that once light enters the plant material, it hits Chlorophyll A and then B or something (could be backwards on that one) and that the wavelength of the light could change during that. Also blue and red LED's aren't one wavelength, they are a combination of wavelengths of almost the same color, like red LEDs are 600-670nm wavelengths, that are all in different ratios, with the peak output of wavelength 627nm(on average).
I think you can grow with only one color..blue or red, but the emerson effect is like a car upgrade. Red makes the plant grow, blue makes it grow, but if you combine them like numbers and those numbers are photosynthetic rates...then red is 5 rate and blue can be 5.....so you would think both together would be a grow rate of 10, but it's actually probably a 12-15 grow rate. It's the emerson effect (thanks physicsnole, I believe).
no LEDs create non-coherent light. check it outQuote:
Originally Posted by devilgoob
" LED- a semiconductor diode that emits incoherent narrow-spectrum light "- from wikipedia
NASA fucking lies!!!!! lol. Where the crap did I see the chart of the cohering LED's?!!! Grrrrr.
Good thing they don't though.
Physicsnole!! You're incredible! You are going to be a world record holder for grams/watt/month! I can't wait until people who think LED technology will be good enough in 5 years see this! :thumbsup:
I get crap all the time in a chatroom talking about LEDs.
i truly hope so
If pulsing light works on tomatoes, then I assume cannabis is not too much different besides it's photon requirement.
I mean jeez, that paper that I read said that by pulsing the light that it was 27 times more efficient than a continuous output of light.
I would like to see this paper. Doesn't sound right...Quote:
Originally Posted by devilgoob
Thank you for that link Physicsnole, that is great.Quote:
Originally Posted by physicsnole
I wish I could understand it all, but I see some very interesting things, like 668nm being the best wavelength.
Also big gains in efficency if you hit pulsing right, screw it up and it will cost ya. Your one smart young man, now get to work on it all.
oldmac
That paper says that "in no case were equal numbers of photons used more efficiently". Now, when you pulse, there's going to be less photons in total than continuous.
The conclusion tries to tell you that pusling is not as good as continuous, and the idea that it is stems from the misinterpretation of the LUE. Yet, devilgoob saw 2700% and misinterpreted it.
The final sentence summing up the whole thing starts with "although there is no advantage to providing photons in pulses".
i think they mean the efficiency of the photons being absorbed by the plant. Im looking into pulsing for energy saving reasons, since energy is only required 1% of the time compared to 100% of the time. Yes the current will have to be raised 2-3X higher so that will increase the power used to about 2-3%. In the graph it shows that photosynthesis occurs at the same rate (100%) as long as the pulse is less than 100us.
Quote:
The response of photosynthesis to photon flux density (PDF) was the same when the light was delivered in pulses as when it was delivered continuously, providing that the frequency was in the range of kHz.
so the paper based its research around determining if photon efficiency was higher when pulsed, and i did some reasoning of their research and came to the conclusion that if photosynthesis occurs at the same rate when using alot less energy, then why not use this to our advantage???Quote:
the relative photon requirement calculations shows that the photon requirement in pulsed light is 100% of that in continuous light
Quote:
Originally Posted by physicsnole
If you want to take graphs and not bother to read the caption, and ignore conclusions, go ahead.
read the paper again, and if you still disagree with me, read it again. in fact keep reading it until you realize what the captions and conclusion are really talking about. i don't know what else to do to try to explain this to you without getting to technical, i don't know how far in calculus you got so i don't wanna waste time spewing out intense mathematical calculations that nobody will understand. I can assure you that i understand the math and physics talked about in that paper and that it does still apply for our purposes. maybe we wont get a 99% increase in efficiency, and maybe 1% duty cycle isn't the most efficient for growing, but its a start, and thats what im hopefully going to find out.