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Les,
that decision would have been rebellion. Read Numbers 14 and see how God handled the rebellious people. The Isrealites were told to go in and possess the land. God promised to drive their enemies from before them. This includes wars that it took to clear the land. God's concern was that His people would play the harlot to the gods of the people in the land. Those who chose the appeasement routte did eventually fall into worshipping false gods and they were punsihed for it.
Well you called him OUR friend a while back, so I was just returning the favor :)Quote:
Originally Posted by F L E S H
I would just like for you to explain how all the things that people who do believe in an afterlife can exist, if there isn't one. And Give me something from YOU, not someone else on exactly why you believe there is not a god. Evidence of this.
All I have heard from you is how wrong everyone else is. Nothing about YOU and FACTS. That is all the writer of that article did.
YOU have been the one dragging me into this converstaion, now you just want to pussy out? Come on now......
Eva
Quote:
Originally Posted by mont974x4
Again assumtion of making war to achieve a goal is wrong!
They were not told by God to go to war!
Yes the people rased up and questioned Mose and Aron..
They wanted to take the land by forceful measures...They saw that it was good land!...and assumed God was going to give them this land, they made plans for it...and questioned and rased up the people before Aron and Moses...rebellion?
numbers 14:10 then the glory of the lord appeared at the tent of meeting to all the Israelites, 14:11 and the lord said to Mose "How long will this people despise me?
and how long will they refuse to believe in me, inspite of all the signs that I have done among them? 14:12 I will strike them with pestilence and disinherit them, and I will make of you a nation greater and mightier than they.
For Moses knew the heart of God was a peaceful one!
From my understanding God was against this war they had planned out!
God doesn't need people to fight for him!
He wants obedience from the people!..he wants helpers in the garden!
I just find it odd that they would include this part in the bible, if it didn't mean something to someone then, then It does now.
Spy out Canaan and take some fruit/seed....
Now why would they do that?...God wanted to restore Eden with them perhaps?
And God mentions all the signs of glory he had performed, so we could see that anything is possible with God.
If God was going to move those people off the land slowly (as it says), then the Jews should have waited for God to do just that...In the mean time, they should have sowed some seeds, and waited out the Master builder.
Thus they don't break any commandments, and they help restore Eden at the same time with God!
I don't think that God would give them laws/commandments to uphold, and then go off and break those very laws, over land issues, when they already had land and water in the wilderness.
They could of set up shop in the wilderness, and made friends with their new neighbors!
"Love they neighbor as they self"
God says he would remove any enemy that came forth, and scatter them.
Thus he would protect the new nation with his own glory and righteousness!
And making friends in the area, would help trade routes...more nations would join them in friendship, and the world would eventually be one big garden!
Here is another odd part of the bible: Mathew 24 you cannot serve God and wealth...This leads to Idolatry, and a false Demi god...
Seems the hole world is using Money today...and then God turns his back.
Christ said Satan is already in the world...and he was right!
The complete opposite to God's will and word is showing as a face on the western industrialized world!
Saying they are free...free from what?...and making wars built up on lies, and underhanded deals gone astray..asking for human sacrifice...We can see clearly now it is for control of Oil wealth....and why these odd things are taking place with the weather, and the fire seasons have started, and the threat of plagues is ringing in my ear, while they dash blood on the taxed hand.
Are we helping in the garden if we have Ozone decay,tainted fish, sick chickens,Madcows...poisoned produce,Pollution of the elements, genetically modified foods=selfishness.
If this pathway continues, it speaks a visual language for Humankind, to all life on this planet!
Now I also Know God made covenants with them as well.
You can't say I pussied out, I just asked you to ask me your question again... I just don't understand what ME and FACTS have to do with each other, the other guy has the facts, I have my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by siSTARindigo
But whatever. So, the afterlife. For as long as people have been aware of life and death, we've been trying to extend our lives, and even trying to cheat death. But the point is we can't, we eventually die, and then nothing. I think it's that nothing that people are afraid of, they're afraid of non-existence. And quite frankly who isn't? There's how belief in some sort of after-life began. Our memories of the dearly departed are what people have called "soul", or whatever other word. But they're just that, memories.
As for God, there's nothing I can say about the origin of the notion of "god" that you haven't already heard. It's not a question of evidence for and against, that's ultimately pointless, as is any search for the "true" Jesus. A simple reflection on the history of humanity, of language, of philosophy along with the 21st century knowledge we have come to acquire can shred any argument in favor of any deity. Period. The problem of taking such logic to it's conclusion is all the political, economic, sociological factors. That is, I realize you can't just yank out religion on any given morning and expect the world to be a better place. But I guess I'm a little utopian in believing that it could happen, and the world would be better off for it.
Every reference to the word "possess" from Genesis until Job is the Hebrew word...yarash meanming to occupy by driving out, to seize. Beginning in Job there are a few instances where the original word is alah...meaning curse. The other word is nachal...talks more about an inheritance.
This has nothing to do with a new Eden.
No where are we told to be friends with the world. In fact, we supposed to be in the world...not of it. Otherwise, we are no diferent and nothing matters.
The people were punished for not trusting God and for not being obedient.
There is nothing worng with money, it's how we use it. When we make money, jobs, possessions, etc more imprtant than God then it is idolotry.
I am so messing with you :D I really don't care, I am not one of those "god-believers" who thinks I have to save everyone. The only reason I picked on you is because you couldn't agree to disagree :)Quote:
Originally Posted by F L E S H
I think I have proven my point. You said we may have been friends had we met on another board. I say we are friends.
I'm cool with your belief, seriouosly. I hope one day you can be cool with mine :)
Well according to what I'm reading (New revised edition) God says he made Humankind (Adam and Eve) To be caretakers of the garden of Eden, Genesis 2:15.Quote:
Originally Posted by mont974x4
Before Eve was made, Adam named all the creatures with God.
So Adam knew them, In Eden.
After being kicked out of Eden...Adam and Eve found the creatures different, wild, and God said Genesis 3:19 by the sweat of your face you shall eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken.
Thus we are now part of the ground...
To dust...what grows on the dust...plants.
So now we have a symbiotic relationships with plants!
We live off them, they live off Us.
Genesis 8:20-22, 9:8-11 god makes covenannts with every thing out of the ark.
Money starts out as a ingraven image, and then it is stamped onto paper, and coins...
It says not to have these things for they are Idols!
You CANNOT SERVE TWO MASTERS..."cannot" means what it says!
My Mother says the same thing, it's how you use it that matters...
I say if you hold this, and use it, you then believe in it...and give it power over you.
Now it is being placed over everything,,,everything is being reduced to it!
And this is where we are going too far with giving it power!
And subjecting our wills over the other life living here as our neighbors!
reducing them to a profit margin...
"Love thy neighbor as thy self." that would include them other life forms!
Christ says look at the birds of the air, they toil not, and herd no animals, and flock no sheep, but God loves them, and feeds them.
So I Believe we are to respect them other life forms, and honor God by keeping them with us in good order, healthy, and well fed.:rasta:
Now that Marijuana plant comes into play, with healthy seeds, to feed the birds, and the cattle, insects with...and some for us...
We cool honey :)Quote:
Originally Posted by siSTARindigo
I always lose my mind everytime I realize not EVERYBODY on this planet thinks the same way I do :dance: :dance: :dance:
Yet more bible wierdness... Birds toil not? Birds are some of the hardest workers in the animal kingdom. They don't just look pretty flying and playing in the air. They have to build nests, find a mate, find food, both for themselves and their offspring, and this is to be repeated every year. God doesn't do anything for the poor little birdies, they have to do it all themselves! That's why birds are atheist.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Les
Les,
those references have nothing to do with establishing a new Eden. I would caution you to be wary of what version of the Bible you use. Some are farther away from the original text than others. I think Youngs Literal Translation is the most accurate one available now. I also use Strong's concordance in order to see what the original text was and what it meant.
I agree, the animals and plants were put here for us....food, clothes, medicine, etc.
Whether money etc. controls you us up to you. It's part of our personal relationship with Him. If something is an issue for you then by all means take extra precaution, however, don't push those same precautions on others. Alcohol is a good example. The Bible says to not be drunk, never are we told to completely abstain. However, if we know it's an issue for us then we are wise to abstain so we aren't tempted. The flipside is that even tho I may be able to a drink with supper, if I know someone will be eating with me that does have an issue with alcohol I must be sensitive to that and not create a stumbling block.
Flesh,
Birds do not toil as earthbound creatures do, but I don't know what reference he is using. God certainly does a lot for birds. He gave them the survival instincts to fly South, hunt for food, etc. Have you ever sat and watched a flock of geese fly South? It's amazing to watch their formation transition as birds get tired etc.