UVb an experiment

Weezard,
Thanks for the quick responce. I realized that when I googled "insolation" is was giving me insulation. Once I figured that out I found it and saw it, it then dawned on me it was the spec that the photovoltaic panel people use.

I've gotten to the point where I need to make notes for my notes. :)

Khyber,
Thanks also for the responces, I'm not sure where I had come across this, but I must have been thinking about indoor light design at the time.

Hey Rusty
I just wanted to hit on a couple of things, since I got cut off the other day.
First, I forgot to say thanks for planting the seed in my mind to do this last experiment. From the time you mentioned it, it became all I'd think abt with UVb, use it thru out veg.
It seems I get surprised by at least something when I've done an experiment. Even tho I saw a thickening of leaves in my first experiment, I din't see any finished bud wgt gain (back to back UVb/no UVb during flower)). Going into this experitment, I was not looking for bud gain either, it was just there. Close obsevation with the eyeclops showed the small bud leafs (in the 3 strains that gained) where slightly larger and thicker, and the floweral bracks slightly larger.
A long time back I stated that the amounts of trichomes produced I believed to be generic. I would modify that now to say I think some strains can be influenced by UVb. But looking at the 2 strains that had no gain in produing more trics, it would seem that not all strains can be influenced. Seems that when we talk about growing mj, we always need to add the proviso "strain dependent".

Knna,
Going back over the math, it made more sence to me. When I had looked at the bulb specs originally I thought 50milliwatts was a very small amount but per centimeter squared was an extremely small area. Looking at the charts etc, I would guess (like I usually do) that the plants saw aprox a UV Index of abt 5.
OM

hey OM, on the strains that gained, what were there genetic makeup, sativa/indica/hybrids? i was just curoius if it correlates that way anyhow. with sativas being more equitorial and the indicas from the mountainous regions etc.


-shake

Quote:

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Originally Posted by headshake

hey OM, on the strains that gained, what were there genetic makeup, sativa/indica/hybrids? i was just curoius if it correlates that way anyhow. with sativas being more equitorial and the indicas from the mountainous regions etc.
-shake

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Keeping in mind I have no $ for testing equipment, and have only one 10.0 CFL reptile bulb:
I was getting the impression (still have that impression) that the dominate pheno would determine whether a strain reacted positive or show no signs.
For instance, my favorite indica dominate reacts quickly...you might say 'violently' to the addition of UV light. Trichomes extend twords the leaftip quicker, leaves 'leather-up' and tend to curl and stunt yet no obvious loss in yield, odors increase...
But my favorite sativa dominate didn't seem to react at all. Plus, a mixed bag of results from various other strains of hybrids. Once I realized I was out of options to experiment further without having a baseline representative strain from each pheno, in my mind...it's a crap shoot for an average med gardener like me to go any further. Worth the toss of the dice, but no guarantee.

Close (under 1 foot) works best for those strains that react. But over time, would 6 inches be more of a benefit...? (more usable UV:M2) Would 2 feet be better...? (less UV:M2) Is fast and hard better, (6 inches, but only half-way through flowering) or is slow and steady (18 inches, but all through growth and flowering) the best...? Schedule for peak sunlight, or all day...?
And if the closer distance is better, is it because there is more of the "usable" UV bandwidth along the outer edges of the spectrums of light output by my particular bulb, and placing it closer increases this benefit, (inverse square law) or are the usable bands centered in my UV range, and my indica simply eats it up like candy...?

I also wonder what happens when you add UV in growth stage, but discontinue it in flower...? <doh> Sure wish I had more time to talk to the breeder when I last saw him. (the one that recommended I add the UV to my growth closet) His techniques are large-scale, (grows everything in both hydro and soil saying it provides different nuances to the flavors and effects) and I'm no threat to his cashflow, so am doubtful his insight was off. Nothing we talked about on other subjects was bogus, so am intrigued by his even mentioning it.

Ouch. My head hurts. <sigh>

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rusty Trichome

Ouch. My head hurts. <sigh>

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tell me about it!


-shake

Hello Shake and Rusty,

Let me start with what strains showed increase trichome production;
Shiva Skunk (from Sensi Seeds) Indica dom
PurePowerPlant (from Nirvana) Sativa dom
Cheese (was a freebe seed(s) from Attitude) Indica dom
All of these also showed minor increases in finished bud wgt.
I don't see a correlation to sativa/indica so far. But my head is starting to hurt too.
The plants that did not show gains in tric were the "apricot" and WhiteRhino. They are two extremes to each other in trichome production, one (WH) packs trics on top of each other, the "apricot" is so lean I throw the trimmings away.

I am not sure who produced the Cheese, since it was a freebe it was not in an original package, the others were. If you guys remember an older thread I did "selecting a mom", I did that with the ShivaSkunk. Not a heavy producer but tastes great. In the aero/fog tray setup it flowers in abt 42 days. That's what I really like abt it.

You know Rusty we all lack good test equipment, just take a look above or last page, with what Weezard is using; a light powered whirly gig! He's going to count and compare RPM of it both outdoors and his 285nm source. Now that's hi-tech for ya. Heck I've been using transition eyeglasses to determine the presents of UV or lack of it. I said earlier I want a light spectrum anylizer for Christmas, but no way I'll have the money. Well if I had the money there are other things I probably would buy. Wish I could get everyone who's viewed this thread to kick in for test equipment.:D

I remeber one time trying to wrap my head around something (you) Rusty said about growing in the heat. You said that your Indica doms faired better in the heat then the Sativa doms. That was competely opposite of what I would have thoght. But at this point I can't find a clear correlation between sat/ind strains, just that some reacted some did not.

As I said before, if I had to guess I think they saw UV Index levels of abt 5, maybe a little more. You do know Rusty, you are now talking abt intensities rather then wavelenghts?

OK, it's offical my head hurts too.
OM

OM, i would be down for kicking in some money for testing equipment.

wouldn't it make sense that indica doms do better in the heat as they are believed to orginate from the hindu kush mountain range are of the middle east. where as the sativas seem to be from around equatorial regions right? perhaps this also has to due with humidity?

just throwing out thoughts from a hurting head!


-shake

My opinion is that it's the difference in the genetic path that it's been bred to. Doubtful my PokerFace has adapted this quickly, over a short number of generations...so it must have SOME latent tolerance in it's genetic past. But obviously, the rest of the strains I grow are in the same boat (oven?) and adapt quickly, so PokerFace isn't the exception to the rule. Plus, there's no reason an indica dom can't have the heat (drought) tolerance mechanism of a sativa parent or grandparent. Or that a sativa dom can handle cooler temps. Heck...my Potent Purple won't begin to purple-up till around 60ish for a couple of weeks. It's become a post-Christmas Strain for me. (I just popped some Potent Purple seeds this week, as a matter of fact)

Most of our cannabis hybrids are from an overly diverse genepool with hidden (latent) expressions that can differ from sibling to sibling. Stuff like hollow versus pithy stems, trichome and capitulate stock patterns, leaf dimensions, ph tolerance, smell over effects (and vice-versa) can vary, even in F-2 and F-3 hybrids. With hybrids, it's a tougher game to play, scientifically speaking. Genetic hybridization is funny that way.

Mornin'

Dug our my germicidal and looked up the specs.
It's a 1' X 3' fused quartz tube.
G30T8
Bipin 30.5W
UV =13.4W
254nm.

This was a bit longer, but I spaced out and thought I'd posted it hours ago.

Then I saw;
"Genetic hybridization is funny that way" -Rusty Trichome:cool:

Of such stuff are signatures made.
Mahalo RT.

An' Aloha ya'll
Weeze

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Originally Posted by headshake

OM, i would be down for kicking in some money for testing equipment.

You are a gem, now I know why we let you hang around here. Nice offer but I think I'm talking thousands of dollars for a good spectrum analyizer. Maybe I should write a grant request to the government.

wouldn't it make sense that indica doms do better in the heat as they are believed to orginate from the hindu kush mountain range are of the middle east.

Last time I looked the Hindu Kush Mountains were in central asia.

where as the sativas seem to be from around equatorial regions right?

You just raised an interesting point without knowing. :) What the high mountain areas and equatorial regions share in common......is high levels of (drum roll please) UV radiation.

perhaps this also has to due with humidity?

Hmmm knna raised the issue of humidity levels during the experiment.


just throwing out thoughts from a hurting head!


-shake

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Always food for thought.:thumbsup:

Rusty,

You have hit upon something that we all forget about....almost everything that is grown today is a hybred. They are much more exploitable then say landrace strains. And you never know what latent traits linger in that gene cesspool.


Weezard,

Well at 254nm you are smack into UVc, which makes sence for a germicidal lamp. So from some of the things I've seen, the plant can use UVa, UVb and UVc. We are a long ways from figuring out what the best wavelenght for the plant is. It seems close counts when it comes to grenades and UV.

If UVc works just as well as UVb, that could be a eureka moment. UVc is safer, and would have the added benifit of killing pathogens, germs and stuff indoors.
Weezard you are the man!

OM

"You just raised an interesting point without knowing. :) What the high mountain areas and equatorial regions share in common......is high levels of (drum roll please) UV radiation."

If your serious about UV, jus go to the equator an turn left until you spot a mountain.
Climb said mountain and build a heated, quartz roofed, greenhouse at about 13,000', yah
Now yer cookin'.:cool:

Aloha,
Weeze

OM, you are correct, the Hindu Kush mountain range is in south-central Asia. i guess i made a lazy statement and just lumped it in with the mid-east due to the seemingly endless war still happening in those two regions.

there is a lot of hash made in that region!


-shake

I would be down to put some of my older blue-dominant LED equipment on at-cost sale to help with the experiment.

Actually, depending on what happens in the next couple of weeks, I might be able to flat-out donate it. Dichroic, 2:1 blue:deep red.

I also have pure landraces, let me know what you'd prefer - Mexico, China, Russia, Turkey, Hungary. I'll get to work on making more seed stock to donate to the experiment.

This was a good read, good post!:thumbsup:
I enjoyed very much

HEALTH WARNING

Looking into UVc, I found that it is just as bad health wise as UVb!!!

Not good for skin or eyes. Use care if working with any UV source.

OM

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Originally Posted by khyberkitsune

I would be down to put some of my older blue-dominant LED equipment on at-cost sale to help with the experiment.

Actually, depending on what happens in the next couple of weeks, I might be able to flat-out donate it. Dichroic, 2:1 blue:deep red.

I also have pure landraces, let me know what you'd prefer - Mexico, China, Russia, Turkey, Hungary. I'll get to work on making more seed stock to donate to the experiment.

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khyber,

I have some landrace strains, mostly sativas, but they are not suitable for indoor growing. They just grow sooo big. In fact, to do the Thai sativa in my greenhouse that only has 8' headroom, I need to use vertical growth inhibitor. This stuff grows to 14-16' outdoors, but where I am in the NE US, it needs to start indoors, then greenhouse then outside to get full size.

Besides, allmost everything grown today is a hybred, which is what I'm concerning myself with here.

Nice offer for your used panels, but.... I suffer from a rare but serious side effect when exposed to LED grow lights that are mfg. offshore. It is an allergic reaction that has Turret's like symptoms and starts out with my cursing the mfg and marketeers of such products and then winds up with my slandering 2 billion people, most of whom I've never met.:D

OM

[quote=oldmac]I tend to grow small plants, SOG size, so I usually don't veg very long. For this experiment I tried to veg as long as possible to maximize any effect that might happen during veg growth. The lighting seemed to work out well for all chambers and got to veg for 6 weeks while maintaining plants of just 10-12".

First general obsevation at the end of vegative stage;
All plants stayed short, compact, node spacing was tight and looked good. But the chamber with UVb looked healthier, the leaves where fatter (we've seen this before) and the amount of leaf growth was a tad more then the other 2 chambers.

At the end of flowering; the chamber that saw UVb from the beginning had the heaviest green wieght, followed by the chamber that had UVb for flowering. The leaves of the UVb/flowering chamber got thicker (like the first experiment I ran) as they progressed. The 2 chambers that used UVb, again just plain "looked" healthier then the no UVb control chamber.

Now the most interesting part, did it (UVb) put more trichomes on the plant? Well yes and no; for the chamber using UVb from the beginning, 3 of the 5 strains showed a remarkable difference in trichome production.
The biggest difference was in the Pure Power Plant, everyone (myself, the fellow doing the work, and my partner from another grow) agreed there was a big difference in the amount of trichomes on these plants. The Shiva Skunk and the Cheese also showed more trics, not as dramatic as PPP but we were all in agreement there was a significant difference from this chamber compared to the other 2 chambers. The White Rhino was more diffucult to call. Since it was sooo frosty even in the controlled chamber, we came up with a split decsion. I felt there was really no improvement, my partner thought there was a slight improvement and the grunt said "I can't tell". We all agreed abt the "apricot", there was no improvement in trichome production.

Chamber #1; UVb for veg/flower: more trichomes on 3 of 5 strains run This is because some strains will do better outdoors with higher irradiance values in the short blue spectrums that affect maturity of the plant w/ time factor. The heavyest finished weight because of blue light contamination. Trichomes went cloudy then amber at finish Thc is degraded by light and more so by more energetic particles of UV, peak thc by percent in resin is when there is best balance between number and size of capitate trichromes and the number that are turning cloudy, which represents the beginning of byproduct buildup in the already matured calyx. imho people do not like the heady buzz of too much thc and prefer the marginal benefit tradeoff of less thc for more modulation by cannabinoid byproducts and more mature terpenes present in more "overripe" buds.

Chamber #2; UVb for flower only: no significant trichome production improvement. Less finished weight then chamber #1, but more then chamber #3. Trichomes went cloudy then amber at finish.

Chamber #3; No UVb: trichomes, well we got what we got. The finished weight was the least of the 3 chambers. Trichomes slowly got cloudy and never went amber. (well I did find 2 ambers on the WR using the "eyeclops")


Well there you have it. The question that I have for myself is, can UVb from the begining, make the same difference in my own grows where I usually just veg for 7-10 days or in aero/fog trays where I go from the clonner to flower tray directly? Guess I just gotta try it and see.

Hope this all makes sense (cents) to everybody. Any questions, please feel free to ask. :thumbsup:[/QUOT

jah bless

longo :rasta:

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The heavyest finished weight because of blue light contamination

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I wouldnt jump to that conclusion so fast. As oldmac designed the experiment, with supplement floro light to compensate the lights used to give UVB, there is no a large difference in blue content of both spectrums used.

Botanist experiments showed that many plants reduce weight when exposed to UVb light, but it cant be generalized. Not all species react that way, some has proven to increase weight under moderate UVB lighting. And it seems cannabis is one of them. And anyway, weight reaction to UVB is strongly dosage dependent.

Many plant species dont show increased or decreased weight under UVB. Cannabis, at worst, seems to be one of them. This referred to total plant matter accumulation. But if we take bud weight alone, in which resin account for a noticeable part of total weight, enhanced resin production may account for a significant weight increase. Still if bud weight without resin weight less, it well may be that overall weight is larger. And at the end, we are after the resin.

Ideally, we should be able to weight resin alone in order to compare results accurately. But extracting resin alone and weighting it is not easy to do accurately, so usually we have to make some guesses and assumptions when analyzing results based on overall bud's weight.

But without discarding small differences of blue spectrum are behind the weight differences (we do not have enough data to do it), attending to how experiment was done, it not seem as a clear explanation neither. A weak hypothesis, IMHO

Hey kanna,

Glad to see you, and still following the various lighting threads here. Your input is always intelligent and insightfull.

Hello clongo,

I appreciate your input, but I don't think that blue light explains the difference's here. BTW, you are not the first to mention the blue light effect.

As knna pointed out, the reason I used regular 23w CFLs at the start in 2 chambers was to off set the fact that the UVb bulb used was a CFL of 20w and would put out blue. I was also trying to keep the amount of total light energy the plants recieved equal. But during veg, the one chamber with UVb the bulb was bare, while the other chambers had the CFLs inside the boroscilicate glass tubes to insure no UVb, but they would see the blue. And again when the one chamber used for UVb flowering, that UVb bulb was bare while the control chamber had it's CFL still in the glass. All three chambers saw about equal levels of blue light. My only conclusion was the effect's seen were due to UVb and not blue.

While on the subject of blue light, you mentioned it's time factor. Could you explain what time factor is about or steer me to some source dealing in various light wavelenghts and thier time factors? It could maybe help me to better understand the PAD Manual and the Rauber theroy. :)

BTW as to amber trichomes, I agree that some people don't like the couch lock effect but in alot of cases with providing medicine to sick/dying people it helps with thier sleep. It's also why I have been growing the heck out of a plant I call "apricot" I used in this experiment; this plant will just not produce many trichomes let alone amber ones. It will stimulate appetite, ease pain and help with nausea but no matter how much is vaped/smoked it is a very mild high. Seems to work great for patients who are undergoing cancer treatments but are not looking to get high.

OM

"But without discarding small differences of blue spectrum are behind the weight differences (we do not have enough data to do it), attending to how experiment was done, it not seem as a clear explanation neither. A weak hypothesis, IMHO"

Blue is heavily responsible for weight production in a huge majority of terrestrial plants. My company has tested this over and over again, from vegetative crops to fruiting crops. The hypothesis is nowhere near 'weak' and in fact could pretty easily be demonstrated to be fairly accurate with my current system setup. All I would need would be a typical 7:1:1 tri-band panel of equal power to one of mine, set up a divider between the six channels I have, and hang a light over each set of three.

As for UVB increasing potency, John Lydon already performed this experiment with far better equipment and resources than any of us have back in 1987, and he clearly demonstrated a linear increase in THC production in drug-type cannabis using UVB at approximately 290nm.

And that particular experiment was his Ph.D thesis, which was accepted and what granted him his doctorate.

Results of experiments are always open to interpretations. But in order to attribute an effect to one parameter, as the blue light in this case, it would be required that the parameter varies from the control to the other conditions tested.

Usually, experiments are designed to keep most parameters constant in it and vary just one parameter, and then results are analyzed based on the varying parameter. Attributing an effect to a parameter designed in the experimental method to be constant, as in this case, is hard to understand to me.

Maybe Im a little short minded and I cant see a casual link that others thinks is evident. In my humble opinion, again, I dont think that saying weight gain was due to differential blue content is a fair conclusion to experimental method and results of Oldmac. If some genius is able to identify by his results that the lighting was not fair, knows exactly what chamber had more blue in it, although designed to be equal, and negate the effect of the main variable parameter tested on final results, I must take off my hat. If its right. But it skip some logical steps and makes some assumptions in the distance, which I truly believe should be considered a "weak" link.

So, I dont discuss the effect blue has on cannabis growing. But saying that the results of an experiment designed to have equal amounts of blue are due the differences in blue, look as a effect of what psychologists call "focusing". A person is so focused on one topic that see it everywhere, and ends thinking almost anything is related to his obssesion, ignoring any logic in the process.

BTW, somebody on other forum argued that Lydon's result arnt valid neither because of blue contamination of the experiment.

It seem there is somebody obsessed with blue band spreading such things somewhere, and negating any other thing can have effect.

Of course, saying Lydon experiment was contaminated because some body is unable to accept his results is stupid, as it was very well designed, measured with spectroradiometer and lamp and filters used published. But who dont want to see, dont see

Quote:

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Originally Posted by knna

BTW, somebody on other forum argued that Lydon's result arnt valid neither because of blue contamination of the experiment.

It seem there is somebody obsessed with blue band spreading such things somewhere, and negating any other thing can have effect.

Of course, saying Lydon experiment was contaminated because some body is unable to accept his results is stupid, as it was very well designed, measured with spectroradiometer and lamp and filters used published. But who dont want to see, dont see

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i hope i don't come off as rude:hippy:----you need to update/change your translator. i mentally add words that are missing ,change singulars to plural, and add punctuations.still--- when you write something i place a very high value on it and reread it many times as you do know what your talking about :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by bullyslayer

i hope i don't come off as rude:hippy:----you need to update/change your translator. i mentally add words that are missing ,change singulars to plural, and add punctuations.still--- when you write something i place a very high value on it and reread it many times as you do know what your talking about :thumbsup:

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I don't think knna is a native English speaker.

If anything, going by linguistic similarities in other languages, and given by the pattern of broken English, I'd say he's from either France or Spain.

Wish I could speak Spanish half as well as he speaks English. And I don't think he uses an auto translator. I wish I had taken the time to learn Spanish properly in HS. I do have a second language but it's not nearly as useful as Spanish would be...

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Originally Posted by bigsby

Wish I could speak Spanish half as well as he speaks English. And I don't think he uses an auto translator. I wish I had taken the time to learn Spanish properly in HS. I do have a second language but it's not nearly as useful as Spanish would be...

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My secondary language(s) is Latin/Greek. It made it a little easier to narrow the region knna might be from. And I can tell he's not using a translator - spelling mistakes. :)

I'm actually leaning more towards Spain/Italy now more than Spain/France.

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Originally Posted by khyberkitsune

My secondary language(s) is Latin/Greek. It made it a little easier to narrow the region knna might be from. And I can tell he's not using a translator - spelling mistakes. :)

I'm actually leaning more towards Spain/Italy now more than Spain/France.

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I belive Spain, as he hangs out at IC Mag in the Spain forum. Plus posts great stuff in the regular section, like lighting. There were some great pictures on the Spain forum, they have a few good LED light builder's over there and some interesting T5 grows/set-ups.
OM

Thank for the support, guys. Im spanish, yes. I write directly in English but I just studied it a bit at school, I learned it by practicing it. Still learning every day, I think my expression of English has strongly improved lately, but I admit I still have a long way to learn.

I usually dont have too much time to post, and usually I write long posts because I like to explain some things, and often I dont have time to check them. Thus many miss spelling, which I almost stopped since I installed an english spell checker. But grammar and phrases coherency still have a large margin of improvement. I do my best with it.

no translator---wow , my problems with reading broken English are nothing compared to the knowledge and insight i gain from your posts----i applaud you sir :clap: and look forward to your future writings.

First off.. I love the BLUE light discussion folks..

All MJ strains react differently to blue light.. It's all about the strains BLUE light sensitivity... What I mean by this is, Some MJ strains when FLOWERED with too much BLUE light will have a higher leaf to calyx ratio then when being FLOWERED under a much more red spectrum.. ie. a 2K HPS bulb.. I have a Blueberry strain and it's very BLUE light sensitive.. Go figure...lol

If your into studding the effect of blue light and you favorite MJ girls.... Might I suggest growing a single plant under 24hrs of BLUE LED light only.. Use any blue led's you would like 420nm,440nm,450nm,460nm,480nm (you get the point)..... OK, I was just joking.... You already no what 24hrs of blue light only dose.... It just keeps your girls vegging... I no what your thinking (no sh*t holmes) tell us something we don't know.

OK THEN...

Now take RED only 630nm OR 660nm led's... Ether one works for this experiment and run a single MJ girl under 24hrs of RED led lighting only (no blue light contamination at all)... Run this for aprox 4 months and come post you results here... I think you will be surprised with the results..

Kanna... This should be right up your alley...

I am weaning myself from HPS. My last grow was 90% CMH lighting; and surprised me at the results.....:thumbsup:

My current grow is half CMH and half HPS. Very disappointing...so far..(6 weeks flowering, with exactly the same criterial)

The plants are rotated...so everybody gets an equal share. This is the last time I do that experiment...:wtf:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dogznova

First off.. I love the BLUE light discussion folks..

All MJ strains react differently to blue light.. It's all about the strains BLUE light sensitivity... What I mean by this is, Some MJ strains when FLOWERED with too much BLUE light will have a higher leaf to calyx ratio then when being FLOWERED under a much more red spectrum.. ie. a 2K HPS bulb.. I have a Blueberry strain and it's very BLUE light sensitive.. Go figure...lol

If your into studding the effect of blue light and you favorite MJ girls.... Might I suggest growing a single plant under 24hrs of BLUE LED light only.. Use any blue led's you would like 420nm,440nm,450nm,460nm,480nm (you get the point)..... OK, I was just joking.... You already no what 24hrs of blue light only dose.... It just keeps your girls vegging... I no what your thinking (no sh*t holmes) tell us something we don't know.

OK THEN...

Now take RED only 630nm OR 660nm led's... Ether one works for this experiment and run a single MJ girl under 24hrs of RED led lighting only (no blue light contamination at all)... Run this for aprox 4 months and come post you results here... I think you will be surprised with the results..

Kanna... This should be right up your alley...

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lol thanks dogz I was going to start arguing, but I think your approach is right, let them try it out themselves.

btw, thanks for the info, i used the 6 hours incandescent and 6 hours cfl on a bf red dragon and I was high for about 4 hours like ive never been. No pictures though, because it didnt really happen?:wtf:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by oldmac

Hey kanna,

Glad to see you, and still following the various lighting threads here. Your input is always intelligent and insightfull.

Hello clongo,

I appreciate your input, but I don't think that blue light explains the difference's here. BTW, you are not the first to mention the blue light effect.

As knna pointed out, the reason I used regular 23w CFLs at the start in 2 chambers was to off set the fact that the UVb bulb used was a CFL of 20w and would put out blue. I was also trying to keep the amount of total light energy the plants recieved equal. But during veg, the one chamber with UVb the bulb was bare, while the other chambers had the CFLs inside the boroscilicate glass tubes to insure no UVb, but they would see the blue. And again when the one chamber used for UVb flowering, that UVb bulb was bare what this means to me is that the spectrum all the way down from UV was available to phytochromes and cryptochromes while also increasing the plants metabolic rate with higher energy photons which accelerate the perceived daytime and circadian rhythm which are blue light responses while the control chamber had it's CFL still in the glass The glass worries me for the same reason the bare UV worried me, I'm sure it filtered more energetic violetblue or even UVC light. All three chambers saw about equal levels of blue light. My only conclusion was the effect's seen were due to UVb and not blue.

While on the subject of blue light, you mentioned it's time factor. Could you explain what time factor is about or steer me to some source dealing in various light wavelenghts and thier time factors? Pad manual itself or Dogznova could explain it all much better than me. if you havent seen it and want to, youll have to make a myspace and befriend temporal photonics It could maybe help me to better understand the PAD Manual and the Rauber theory.

BTW as to amber trichomes, I agree that some people don't like the couch lock effect but in alot of cases with providing medicine to sick/dying people it helps with thier sleep. It's also why I have been growing the heck out of a plant I call "apricot" I used in this experiment; this plant will just not produce many trichomes let alone amber ones. It will stimulate appetite, ease pain and help with nausea but no matter how much is vaped/smoked it is a very mild high. Seems to work great for patients who are undergoing cancer treatments but are not looking to get high.

Respect, I personally use it because I got hit by a car and I find sativas are actually better pain relievers, but it left me with spasticity and I leave buds unchopped longer for that and sleeping.

OM

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jah bless

longo

Been away awhile from the old UVb thread.

I have a scientific white paper "Possible role of Ultrasviolet Radiation in Evolution of Cannabis Chemotypes" by William W. Pate from '81. I have tried to post it here but is 10 pages of pdf and to large to upload. Previously I had been able to brake these things into 2 parts, but I have had no success. (I don't seem to have word on this newer computer and the clipboard has been non co-operative.) If I ever figue it out I will post it.

@ clongo, one of the reasons we used pyrex (cornning product) bake arounds was that pyrex is boroscilicate glass. From everything I've read about it, it does not filter visiible light only UV...and that includes most of the UVa and all UVb and UVc. That plus the first experiment (at beginning of thread) was a back to back experiment. The lights in that test were in a boroscilicate cool tube, and the UVb were separate lights. Used them in one flowering run and did not use in another. My conclusions are that blue light was present in both and differences were directly attributable to UVb exposure.

BTW I have had a copy of the PAD manual since 12/09, while it lists the time factor for various light, I am still trying to find the scientific basis behind it.
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OM :cool: