Calling out to Weezard for LED advice

It seems what I am looking for is a so called led droplight (or stem or canopylight). When I google that I get the same products from the same manufacturer every time again.

Is that any good?
Are there better non-diy alternatives?

The x-mas tree light design looks like it would take up a lot of space and wouldn't spread the light evenly and the net design would have to be hung vertically, because otherwise it gets too much in the way.
So I could only hang about 4 or 5 of these per m2, while

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Originally Posted by knna

Percentages of IC lighting generally varies from 25 to 50% of the total light.

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so I need 4 times that.

Nets like these that are less wide (deep) and have about 30 or 40 watts in power would be just perfect.
Especially if you could have the spectrum custommade.

Searched some more for intracanopy light, but no one seems to call it that.

I did find flexible strip lights, led ribbons, ropes and strings, light rings, decoration and advertising strips, led softlight and dura flex or even curtain and x-mas lights.
Now I realise I always had one of these strips in my garden and from that I know the thick PVC type strings are no good -too heavy and too big-.

It will take a lot of time untill I can see the trees through the woods, especially since all this stuff seems to be for sale in China only.
Chinese companies usually don't give the information that is vital for your decision.
Isn't there any hydroponics store selling intracanopy lighting yet? (the ones I found seem to be out of bussiness).
To me it seems easy to design and it has many proven benefits.

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Originally Posted by Bubbleblower

Searched some more for intracanopy light, but no one seems to call it that.
...

Isn't there any hydroponics store selling intracanopy lighting yet? (the ones I found seem to be out of bussiness).

That's what I call a "clue".:D

To me it seems easy to design and it has many proven benefits.

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No wanna burst no bubbles, brah, but da only "proven" benefit is the ease of design.
Though they do come in handy 'roun' Christmas time.;)

Sorry 'bout dis.

All kidding aside,
Dey have been well, and thoroughly tried.
An' when dey post da yield report,
Droplight grows?
Dey come up short.:(

Suggest you buy a UFO fo' da veg. grow.
That, will give you time find a decent bloom light.:)

'course you CAN bloom under a UFO.
(I've read that, have not tried it personally.)
I did personally futz with droplights in 2007.:o
Wasted a couple months.

Just FYI.:beatdeadhorse:

Aloha
Weezard

May be I wasn't clear
but I already have some blooming lights here.

According to Purdue University
you want some extra light under your canopy.
At least 25% they recommend
to get a dense and healthy plant.

So I wil get
a special net
but I need to find
the proper kind.

;)

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Originally Posted by Bubbleblower

May be I wasn't clear
but I already have some blooming lights here.

According to Purdue University
you want some extra light under your canopy.
At least 25% they recommend
to get a dense and healthy plant, my friend.?

So I wil get
a special net
but I need to find
the proper kind.

;)

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I wish you well,
you could be right.
The plants will tell,
What's enough light. :D

But, once you find the proper LED,
Be a pal and start a thread. :cool:

Da weeze will lurk there-in.

Aloha,
Woozy Weeze

If you want anything done custom contact this guy:

Happen Zhu - [email protected]

He custom made me my LED lights. WAYYYY less than buying them from anyone else. Three year warranty. Very nice to work with.

I vegged under my all blue one. It worked well but had some stretch as the blue lights don't put out as many lumens.

I'm vegging under my red/blue 120W right now and the plants are MUCH tighter. $180 bucks shipped for a custom 120W LED light. Can't beat that!

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May I ask what the finished height of that one was? and what do you ususally finish at? It does not look like it lacked for light down low, that's for sure.

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Sorry not to answer ya, I got sidelined by some medical problems. Guess ya saw the measuring tape by now, those plants finished around 24". They had vegged to 20" before I was able to flip them.

I would have preferred to flip them at 15-18". At that height I can easily hold them to an inch or two of stretch simply by cranking up the blues and cranking down the reds until they settled down. Finishing at 20" or less worked well for this strain and my current setup, and 3 gal. pots gave them plenty of toe-room.

But flipping them at 20" made it harder to hold them back with the light color manipulation. 24" was as short as I could keep them, (but I didn't use Bushmaster or other "non-photonic interventions").

I'm wrestling now with some I flipped at 24" and I can't seem to hold them any smaller than 36-38". At that size they need to be in 5 gal pots, which is a pain. Seems like the bigger they are when I flip 'em, the more determined they are to try to become big-ass plants. Of course, this is just my experience with two strains, in dirt, under these lights.

But, you are correct, sir, I got good light penetration all the way down the 24-inchers, and the 3+ footers are doing okay, as well. I do subscribe to your philosophy of producing just usable bud, not lettuce and lumber. And 5-gal pots fulla wet soil are heavy, and my space is kinda tight so it's a drag for my sick old self to jockey them around to feed and maintain. Ankle-biters are preferable. And next time, coco, if not bubba-ponics.

My motto: "Shoot low, Sheriff-- I'm ridin' a Shetland!" :D

Best, Hermie

Weez,

I just got my meter in today. To be sure it was apples to apples I ordered the same one you have. 30 bucks shipped from Hong Kong.

It looks like my 120W light is just slightly weaker than yours. At 12" from the center of the light my meter is reading 1012. The beam angle on these 1W must be very narrow as when I go just slightly outside of the glass on the the light the intensity drops off significantly.

Nonetheless, the red/blue light is growing much better plants than just my all blue one. Remember I have the two different wavelengths of blue in my red/blue light as well.

This batch is MUCH MUCH more bushier with much less stretch. Most likely due to the increased light output from the red led's.

Just thought I would give you an update on my china lights. The 120W light only increases ambient temps by 3-4 degrees. Gotta love it!

Maybe one of these days I'll up the ante and build a 15W LED light like you have but for now this will do. How are things for you down in Hawaii?

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Originally Posted by ledtime

Weez,

I just got my meter in today. To be sure it was apples to apples I ordered the same one you have. 30 bucks shipped from Hong Kong.

It looks like my 120W light is just slightly weaker than yours. At 12" from the center of the light my meter is reading 1012. The beam angle on these 1W must be very narrow as when I go just slightly outside of the glass on the the light the intensity drops off significantly.

Nonetheless, the red/blue light is growing much better plants than just my all blue one.

That's lesson #1. Ya need at least 2 different colors for a healthy grow.

Remember I have the two different wavelengths of blue in my red/blue light as well.

This batch is MUCH MUCH more bushier with much less stretch. Most likely due to the increased light output from the red led's.

I think you'll find that it's the blue that produces shorter internodes.
I have to turn my reds down to control that 7th inning stretch.
3:10 = Tall.
3:7 = Not so tall

Just thought I would give you an update on my china lights. The 120W light only increases ambient temps by 3-4 degrees. Gotta love it!

Maybe one of these days I'll up the ante and build a 15W LED light like you have but for now this will do.

No need now.
All you need now is patience.

How are things for you down in Hawaii?

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No wanna gloat, but every time I say, "It just can not get any better than this", it does!
[attachment=o225568]

Best end-game ever!:thumbsup:
Thanks for asking:jointsmile:

Aloha,
Weeze

In this 120W light I went with 100 red and 19 blue. Seems to be doing the trick.

I had two plants that for some reason have wild PH problems. Stretched a bunch and have PH problem signs all over. They were a good 3-4" taller than the others. I pulled them today as I feel correcting the problem and keeping them a reasonable size will be a tougher task than I'm willing to take on.

Well, at least I have an all blue light that I can turn on in flower if they start getting out of control! :D

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Originally Posted by ledtime

In this 120W light I went with 100 red and 19 blue. Seems to be doing the trick.

Sounds like a good Bloom ratio.

I had two plants that for some reason have wild PH problems. Stretched a bunch and have PH problem signs all over. They were a good 3-4" taller than the others. I pulled them today as I feel correcting the problem and keeping them a reasonable size will be a tougher task than I'm willing to take on.

Well, at least I have an all blue light that I can turn on in flower if they start getting out of control! :D

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And with your separate lights, you can use distance to "trim" the R B ratio that your girls "see".:cool:

Good work!:thumbsup:

Weeze.

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Originally Posted by DreadedHermie

Sorry not to answer ya, I got sidelined by some medical problems. Guess ya saw the measuring tape by now, those plants finished around 24". They had vegged to 20" before I was able to flip them.

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Hey DH I hope you're doing better and it wasn't anything too serious.

St. 'Zard pointed out to me how foolish that question was, I had even blown the pic up to admire your work and did not notice the tape measure.:wtf:

That is one good working light if you managed to have only a 4" growth spurt after going to 12/12! And I feel your pain anytime I have a plant over 24" in my partnered grow. We had damn 4' suckers from the SS mom grow out, how people grow that tall on a regular bases is beyond me.

You didn't ask but I'd lean towards using buuba-ponics, much cleaner.
:thumbsup:

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You didn't ask but I'd lean towards using buuba-ponics, much cleaner.

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If I had time to dial it in, I've always felt the absolute state-of-the-art would be aeroponics , probably a setup very similar to what you've talked about.

But my hobbies, frottage and mopery, are so time consuming! And introducing myself to all the neighbors (it's some silly court-ordered thing) really takes a chunk outta my day! :D

....ROFLOL :D

You really are busy. Maybe between your walks and rubbing you could dial it in! Sorry to hear about the court order. :wtf:
.

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Originally Posted by oldmac

....ROFLOL :D

You really are busy. Maybe between your walks and rubbing you could dial it in! Sorry to hear about the court order. :wtf:
.

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He no get tagged fo' mopery no mo'.
Bought a dog!:D

Nex' he gonna get a birdwatcher book to 'splain da binoculars, yah?:rastasmoke:

I hear da court order 'ting was a beeg mistake too.
She was way over 18, she jus' wasn't a mammal.;)
Badaboom!


Weeze.

Weez and DH,

I went through and read this entire thread again! It took me quite some time and a few beers. Here is what I have as a shopping list so far.....please let me know what I'm missing.

1. Six (6) LZ4-00R215 LedEngin 660nm Emitters
2. Two (2) LZ4-00B215 LedEngin 465nm Emitters
3. One (1) 12"x10.125" Heat Sink (Ebay Guy)
4. One (1) PLN-60-12 Mean Well Power Supply (Red LED's)
5. One (1) PLN-60-15 Mean Well Power Supply (Blue LED's)
6. One (1) 120mm Axial Fan

And of course wire and epoxy.

I do have four questions...

1. How do you power the Mean Well's? Is it just an AC cord plugged into an outlet?
2. Is the dial on the Mean Wells what controls dimming?
3. Do I have the right model driver for powering six reds?
4. What powers the fan?

I think that about sums up my post right now. With your answers I can then order the parts and get to building! Thanks in advance for the help!

Aloha, ledtime,

DH is the goto guy for meanwell info.:thumbsup:

But, if that "60" is the wattage? No.
6 X 15W. = 90W.
Best to use a 120W. supply for a 90W. load

I can tell ya that the fan is probably 12V. and can use the Red led supply.
I usually just use a cheap 12v. wall wart for the fan so I don't cornfuse the current limit supplies with an inductive load.:confused:

I do advise polishing the heatsink to a goodly shine and using good quality thermal transfer epoxy. The life of your leds depends on it.

Now, go beat that credit card like a red-headed stepchild. :D

Como mai.
Weeze

No credit cards for me....Been through that mess once. Never again. Funny, I am a red head. HA!

I'll wait on DH's response on those Mean Well drivers...

You think the heatsink has a big enough foot print? I want to cover 3'x3' and still get decent penetration.....

Weez,

Looking over some of my "notes" of this thread....

Does adjusting the voltage on the Mean Wells serve as the dimmer? I took what you wrote to hermie as you have to dial in the driver at the proper current and you adjust the voltage on the driver to dim them. Is that right?

If that's the case, and I use wall warts for the fans, then the only other thing I need to know is how are we supplying power to the LED drivers?

I guess I need some sort of bench supply to test those LED's...

Okay:
4 -15W reds on a 60-12 is a match made in heaven! :angelsmiley:
Or even 3 -15's, if you're really pushing them.

I'd use 2 60-12's and use 8 reds. But do you have a bench supply? You want to be able to test the leds by running them up to 1200-1300mA each, and see what voltage it takes to push each individual led there. I make a little table and measure:

led #1 red:
10.3V gives 1.1A
10.4 " 1.1
10.5 " 1.2
10.6 " 1.2
10.7 " 1.3
10.8 " 1.3
10.9 " 1.4
11.0 Didn't dare push harder, gets expensive! :D

So this led'll be happy running at 10.6 -10.7V.

So, if you've got a bench supply, you can power up to 7 reds with it, and use it to match up your emitters while you build the light. :thumbsup:

If not, you've gotta guess where to set your voltage, so you wanna be more conservative.

Lemme know and we'll proceed from there.

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I do have four questions...

1. How do you power the Mean Well's? Is it just an AC cord plugged into an outlet?

Yep. They come with a short 3-wire pigtail. Need to provide a supply cable, or at least the AC plug. Got a pic or two I'll post for ya, explains the coding.

2. Is the dial on the Mean Wells what controls dimming?

Sorta. there's 2 little trim pots inside. One controls voltage. I set that where I want it, under load, with the other trim pot (the "dimmer") up full. Then I turn down the dimmer pot until it just kicks in and starts dropping the voltage. That sets the current max so your leds will stay well-regulated. I leave the plastic covers off mine so I can adjust them, and since I do that anyway I put little heatsinks, CPU coolers, etc. on the heatsinks in the Meanwells.

3. Do I have the right model driver for powering six reds?

Talked about that already. Mastech makes a great power supply for ~$165 shipped. Model 3010, up to 30V. Highly recommended. If not, I've got some data on real-world measurements of the 15W's so we can get a safe guess where to run them. But you'll want two 60-12's if you no got bench supply.


4. What powers the fan?

A single 120mm computer fan, ($5) running at 12V. will cool your light jes' fine. I like things quiet, so I run 2 fans at 9V. (One would prolly do it.)with wall wart adapters. Power 'em off separate supplies for backup. Wallwarts are cheap. Led drivers, not so much. Using led drivers to power fans is jes' a waste, I think.

Weezard has used thermostatic switches to kick fans on and off. On lightweight lamps the start-up torque gives you a free mover. Lotsa possibilities. Are you mounting the fan flush against the fins, like the Procyon?

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Hey, I see your new post while I'm writing this...

Get a mastech, you can run all 6 reds with it....

If this is just a flowering light, a 1:4 or even 1:5 blue:red ratio is plenty blue. Your 2:6 design's got a 1:3 ratio goin' on. I found that bluer than I needed for flower; I jes' built it that way cause 'Zard said, "My next light will have 2 blues" (talkin' 'bout his 4+1 cake pan lamp). I didn't realize he was gonna run 'em with 10 reds! I later added a couple more reds to that lamp; it's an 8 + 2 now.

But it's nice to have that blue power available to stop stretch so it's hardly wasted. If you were cutting corners you could get by with a single blue , a 30-watt driver, and 4 reds. (Or up to 7 reds with a mastech 3010) In reality, the 30 watt drivers cost almost what the 60 watters cost, and running 2 blues would be pushing it. They'll actually take up to 18 watts or so...

Really, how you power the reds most efficiently depends on which ones match the closest in Vf.

If you are trying to flower a 3' sq area, that's the rough footprint of a 400HPS. I'd shoot for 200 watts of quality led power to match that. A 6+2 ledengin light will edge out a Procyon (also bluer than it needs to be for flower, IMO) but a 6+2's only 120 watts running flat out. Think I used to run one with 107 watts from the leds, not counting driver consumption. Compares more to a 250HPS, I guess.

I like to keep my light < 6" from the plant tops so it doesn't spread too far. Is that the shape you're trying to light-- 3 x 3? You can build the light to closely match your space. I'd probably use 2 lamps side-by-side for a 3 x 3 space, especially if you're looking for much penetration.

You might check your heatsink supplier. Sometimes 2 ship as cheap as one. You can power the blues from a single driver even if they're on different heatsinks. And you get a price break at 10 reds... Just thinkin' out loud, here...

Lessee, you could get 11 reds. Put 'em on 2 heatsinks, 6 on one, 5 on the other.

Power the closest-matched 7 with a mastech, the closest-matched 4 with a 60-12. (Notice I am using all my driver power). Run a blue on each light. If you want to add more blues, the 60-15 will accomodate you.

That's 195 watts of well-driven leds. Yowsa! (I'd prolly add a 3rd blue later, jes' cause there's enough 15V driver to do it.)

You could also cram 10 reds and 2 blues onto a single heatsink.


It ain't cheap to do this right. That's how come you hear some kids saying leds won't grow. All they've tried used shitty components, shitty matching, shitty drivers. Also how come the only lights that really perform are pricey. Top quality emitters and drivers aren't cheap. They shouldn't be. :thumbsup:

I'll keep an eye on ya. You can always add more emitters to your sink and run some more wire...

DH,

That all made perfect sense! I've been following this thread from the beginning. Right now I'm using a 120W lamp made out of 1W LED. It's doing the job, but not as good as I would like.

The way I see it is that if I'm going to run at least 120W it should be using LED's that I feel give me the most bank per watt. The 1W don't do that. I have supplemented with eight 23W CFL's. And the heat gets up there!

So right now I'm using 304 watts. I'll do 200 all day long!!!!!

I may entertain getting two heat sinks and making a monster! That actually sounds fun!

I have attached a quick "sketch" of the top of the light. I figured it would make sense if I did use two heatsinks, to connect them using a piece of aluminum with a slot down the center of it. That way I could adjust how far apart I want the light to be at any time easily.

Limited by the placement of the fan of course....

After laying it out thoroughly in CAD, I will not be able to cover enough space left to right. I would have to really make a light consisting of 5 pieces. A center piece and four "islands". One in each corner.

I figured a 90 degree beam spread at 6" above the plants. Making it a 1' diameter footprint per LED. It would take 13 red LED's to cover a 3'x3' space leaving little room to waste. There would be three reds on each island and one red and two blues on the center piece.

I'd need to use 5 fans, one for each sink, but they are cheap. In my head it's kind of like a chandelier.....

Anyone have any feedback on my idea? Is there an easier/better way to accomplish lighting a 3'sq. area?

"In my head it's kind of like a chandelier"

I see it!
Darn good idea!

Weeze.

Let's talk fans....

The only part of your lamp that's gotta be in the grow chamber is the heatsink with wired leds attached. If you've got enough heatsink, (or wimpy-enough leds) you don't even need a fan. Remember, fans actually create more heat :eek: via motor operation, fan blade interaction with air molecules, etc. We just use fans to move heat where it does less damage. If you've checked out W.'s 10+2 lamp, he's got his sink cooling fan exhausting the heat out attached ductwork. Mine jes' fire in the general direction of my main exhaust, which is not so elegant. :o

There's a school of thought that tries to eliminate fans from led lamp design altogether. From a design perspective, it's a loftier aspiration. If your light's designed to operate without a fan, it can't overheat because of a fan failure. :thumbsup: Plus you save a couple watts on the fan motor, and a tiny bit of heat actually added by the fan's operation, etc.

I prefer to enter the battle planning to use enough concentrated watts to need a fan. This is war, baby! :gunfighter2: Plus, I like my electronics running cool. :cool:

But here's a thought: with the emitters spread out where the junction heat's not so concentrated -- if your heatsink is well-finned where it'll really catch some air -- you might be able to cool it with general circulation fans in the grow area, aimed so they just catch part of the heatsink. I played with this a bit while setting things up, and it seemed like it woulda worked. I'm kinda klutzy, though, and feel more confident with the fan stuck right to the sink.

A flaw in my design that's always griped me; I've got a fan running to cool the heatsink, but the "breeze" coming off the sink fan is firing 180deg away from the plants. :wtf:

Don't get me wrong, it works well. But I've been thinking of cutting a ~3" hole outta the center of a heatsink and mounting the fan so it cools the sink and fires the (slightly) warmed air downward at the plants. The cooling fan would then be functioning also as a circulation fan. It'd need a simple baffle to block the fan from simply pulling air straight through the hole. Just a thought--trying to redirect that wasted exhaust airflow into something beneficial.

Alternatively to the hub-and-spoke design, you could do a criss-cross design, or a square "catwalk" layout, too. Whatever layout you use, if your heatsinks are thermally connected, you don't need a fan behind every set of emitters. This is especially true with beefy, highly conductive heatsink stock.

I decided to think of my lights as "built-in;" after all, it's not like I'm running from room to room with the things--the flower room ain't goin' nowhere. So, rather than approaching the design from a traditional "portable" light paradigm, it became: "Okay, how do I light this specific space?" It's custom-made, baby! :pimp:

Hermie,

You made my head spin with that! I kept up though. Great ideas! No waste, that's the way to go.

I haven't put much thought towards this today or yesterday as work has kept me very busy.

After doing the math it would be easier to rig up some kind of light mover and use an 8+2 light. That should penetrate well. The mover on a 6' rail is like $160-$180. I could cut the rail to fit my space and eliminate the need to make a bigger/wider/crazier light. Just the extra LED's needed to make the big dog light I would like cost as much as the light mover. That's not taking into account the extra heat sink, fans, and LED drivers.

That way I can put the light 6" or so over the plants and they will all get even coverage! Would be a great SCROG experiment......

These CFL's are too hot. Room temps are 82 with the lights on and 73 with them off. Should be able to keep it in the 70's all LED.

Also noticed the other day that the three plants I have are all hermied. No pun intended. That's what you get for using bagseed. :-( Big let down. I need to get some good feminized ones for the new light.

Are you still talking about a 3 x 3 space? That's a pretty short track!

If your emitters are grouped together or lensed so the light is acting like a single point source (capable of throwing "shadows") a mover might make sense in a long enough space. The dispersion (and reflections) you get with the 15W leds is quite even, and a mover would benefit them less than, say, a Procyon (because of its lensing).

I played around with covering a 3 x 3 space a bit. Best way to light it depends on what's in there, to a degree. 1 biggun? 4 @ 18" sq? A mixed bag of strains and ages? I'm liking the flexibility of 1, 2, even 3 lights you can move in close to the plants as opposed to the "hovering mothership" concept. Just able to hit the plants harder, seems like.

And if you're looking at heatsinks with 2.5" fins, those may be inconvenient to work with. :jointsmile:

Here are the heat sinks I found on Ebay. Nice. He has them in 10.125" wide. He just hasn't put that auction back up yet. $47 shipped per foot. 2.5" fins.

HEATSINK ALUMINUM EXTRUSION LARGE BIG 8.5" WIDE - eBay (item 170389589478 end time Oct-08-09 15:10:15 PDT)

His 8.5" wide one has only 1" fins. And is $68.50 shipped for two 8.5" x 12" pieces. Better?

I could do two lights...but would still stay at a max of 8 reds due to the extreme cost of going beyond that.

I have to be sure I get seeds so I know exactly what I'm working with. If the 15W can throw the light nicely, then 8 reds should cover 3'x3' effectively. I use a DR100 which is lined in all silver. Very nice. Light bounces everywhere!!!

A scrog with four plants is the most I think I could ever fit. Especially if the light is doing it's job. So we would be looking at covering a level 3' sq area. Best due to the LED's lack of penetrating power.

So what do you think? Two 8.5" sinks, 8 reds, 2 blues, one mastech, one 60-12, one 60-15, and two fans?

If I do that would I mount the blues on the inner sides of the bottom of the sink so they stay towards the center of the room?

If I were to put it all on one sink it would look like this. Coverage area at 6" above plants would be 1'-11" x 1'-9-1/8". Not so great......Two lights sounds better.

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So what do you think? Two 8.5" sinks, 8 reds, 2 blues, one mastech, one 60-12, one 60-15, and two fans?

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I have done it that way myself, and would do it again. Remember, that mastech will drive 7 reds. And that is kick-ass heatsink material. Easy to work. Hey, it's an investment--peeps always looking for stuff like that as scrap. Look at what folks are asking on the Bay for their used ham radio junk... After the collapse of civilization you will still be able to barter with fine heatsinks like those. :thumbsup:

7 reds and 1 blue make a nice little flowering light; better than a Procyon IMO. You wouldn't need the 60-12 yet.

You could also run the reds a tad cooler (~1100-1150mA), and build (2) 4+1 lights and still power all 8 reds with the mastech.

Then, you can add on whenever you want! I buy myself little presents like that...:thumbsup: I'd spring for 10 and save the $20, though.

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If I do that would I mount the blues on the inner sides of the bottom of the sink so they stay towards the center of the room?

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I'd like to get the Maestro to chip in on this one. Looks like his blues are mounted about as far apart as he can get them on his 10 + 2 light. Mine are spread out a ways, too-- that blue light has powerful effects and seems like once there's enough, it's enough. I think a more uniform distribution works well for me, despite my initial concerns with phototropism.

Reds seem different as far as coverage. I like having a red smack in the middle of the light; I just added some like that.

At 6" from the plants, having the emitters spaced closer than 6" but further than 3" apart looks like "ballpark optimum" spacing for these 15W. (That doesn't mean you gotta do that over an entire 9 sq.ft. area. Coupla concentrated areas (lamps / semi-point-sources) seem better to me than spreading your reds out too thin trying for "even" coverage over 3x3'.)

DEFINITELY would like to hear what other Ledengin 15w users think. These are just my off-the-cuff observations, based on few strains and little experience. No take to bank yet...:hippy:

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If I were to put it all on one sink it would look like this.

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Yep, done it like dat, too, sorta. Added a red in the middle later; my blues were a bit further apart.

Damn! That is one intricate drawing! Beautiful! :thumbsup: (They will only give me crayons to work with...:sadcrying)

Don't sweat it too much; a layout that's great for 5 leds (like 5's on dice) becomes assymetrical when you add a 6th red after your ship comes in :dance:. De plants no keah! :thumbsup:

Weez or DH,

Don't both of you grow in coco? I wanted to start another DWC project but without the use of hydroton. It really was a PITA with it's swings the last go round.

Where do I start with coco? I'll do the reading if you could point me to a good thread that does it the way you do.

Thanks for the help guys!

Well, I haven't found anything all in one place, at least on this board.

I haven't germed in coco yet. Just transplanted into it from various stages of soil grows.

My preferred method is cloning in rapid rooters, so that's what I'll do, and just plant into coco (in a 20oz beer cup) soon as I see roots coming out of the RR -- same as I do with soil.

In reality, I'll betcha cloning (or germing) right in the coco will work just as well. Just haven't tried that yet-- the RR's have been foolproof for me and @~.32ea it ain't worth messin' with.

I go from the 20oz. cup to a 6" netpot, or:

20 oz cup > 1 gal nursery pot > 8" netpot.

Unfortunately, my 1 gal pots are a tad bigger than my 6" netpots, but that'd be a direct swap if I had the right sizes.

Weez showed me a cool trick: you use the cup (or pot) your plant is in to mold a cavity inside the bigger pot--just pack moist coco all around the cup, remove the cup, and the plant drops right into the new hole.

That's about all there is to it. I set up nute level in the res about half an inch below the the bottom of the netpot. The bubbles splash the coco and the moisture is quickly distributed evenly throughout the medium. I've accidentally submerged the bottom of the netpot, and I've let the nute level drop a couple of inches, too. Neither boo-boo caused a problem. (This stuff is too easy. :thumbsup:) We used wicks into the res at first to make sure the coco got saturated, but it was unneccessary. And some of the wicks liked to grow bacteria, and we've both got warm res temps, so we both quit doin' dat.

My only concern at this point is if my tiny grow space will accommodate a DWC plant grown in coco its whole life. I may do a simple drip-to-waste in 3 gal coco pots just to keep the size under control. :thumbsup:

So there really is no trick? What about PH? Is it slightly higher than hydroton?

I too love rapid rooters. Works every single time for me. So, I too would go RR to coco.

Maybe one trick--I use the Botanicare compressed bricks. Just expand with lightly nuted, cal-magged water. Some other types of coco may contain salt, presumably from the coconuts floating in sea water, and must be flushed. I've heard people complain about it, so I never stray...Jes' use da bricks--just add water for instant hydro, even in pots.

If you're doing DWC, it's like the coco's not even there. Just helps hold the plant, and coco's wicking properties make the transition easy when from a top watered pot to a bubble bucket.

I've run pH from 5.2 to 5.8 without problems. Like hydro. I've seen nutes "specially formulated for coco." Never even tried 'em. Using DynaGrow (for hydro) or Botanicare PBP. Regular hydro stuff, no additives. Just calmag cause I'm using distilled water. (OK, a little Cha-Ching at the end...;))

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While the plant's in a pot, awaiting transplant into a bubblebucket:

I keep the pH of the pot contents at 5.2 to 5.5, as estimated by the runoff pH. Just treat it like hydro, except you don't have to battle the pH as with hydroton. With distilled water, I don't even need 'pH-down' much.

I water and feed alternately, with little or no runoff. (This is so easy...) You could do a real light nute solution every time (which is how life will be in the bucket) but that can require watering to significant runoff to prevent too much nute/salts buildup in the coco. Or just flush occasionally; just check the EC of your pot runoff to see when thatâ??s needed. I guess the point is, all these different things have worked for me. The medium is just very forgiving. :o

From now on, soil's just for moms, and anything else I might want to deliberately keep small and slow-growing.

Howzit, DH?

I just had a stoner thought.
Got a pile of peltier devices that I intended to use as active heatsinks.
Until I found out how much current they draw. Ouch!
Got a dozen of them on the shelf.
They work both ways.
Heat one side, and/or cool the other, and it acts like a thermocouple and generates current.

Then your idea of mounting the 15s on homemade "stars" got me thinkin'.
We're eating Watts to remove heat with the fan.

Perhaps we should stop seeing the heat as a waste product and put it to work for us.

Here's what I propose.
Epoxy one, or two 15 Watt Ledengin emitters to the chip side of the peltiers.
Then bolt the fin sides to a large heatsink with a fan.
Use the temperature difference to generate enough current to run the fan!
As the fan cools the big 'sink, it "bootstraps" the fan power a little more as the temp. difference increases.
Does that sound semi-sane.

I'll have to buy some emitters to try it with and see how many units it would take to run a fan.
Ambient can get to 90F. here, so a 50 degree difference would have to suffice.
If it works, it's self regulating!:cool:
And, dare I say, rather elegant.:thumbsup:
That's why I call this MMJ, Cogito.:jointsmile::detective1:

Aloha.

Weezard

The first person to develop an LED street light?...will be rich beyond their wildest dreams....:thumbsup:

Quote:

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The first person to develop an LED street light?...

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Already done. Some company picked up the streets of some major city as a client...can't remember who or where ATM...:stoned:

What I see happening in the future is spinoff technology from the residential lighting market. Lotsa companies working on RGB emitters to light your home, with "color mixing" ability so you can dial up the exact "white" tone your eyes prefer with three little faders.

When those things get cheap/powerful enough they'll be a tunable grow light in the rough. (The red wave might not be as long as we'd like, though.) Dial up more blues for veg/stretch mitigation; more reds for flower. Bring up the midrange wavelength to experiment, produce "white light" via color mixing, etc.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Weezard

Howzit, DH?

I just had a stoner thought.
Got a pile of peltier devices that I intended to use as active heatsinks.
[FONT=Book Antiqua][SIZE=4]Until I found out how much current they draw. Ouch!

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I recently asked you about 10w vs 15w LEDs from LedEngin's, and in your response you mentioned the Flea-bay heatsink dealer (I had already stumbled upon him). That led me to think about various other ways to cool an LED light. I had successfully used pelitier devices before to cool LNAs (low noise amplifiers) used in satellite communication dishes I had installed in the middle east. The problem that I found was for every watt of heat you wanted to get rid of it took a watt of electrical power to accomplish it. A 1 kw light required 1 kw worth of peletier to cool....not real economical.

And DH, has it right about street lights, they are doing it now. I believe that Cree has a deal with a Chinese city to deliever street lights. They should be able to copy the technology and sell it back to us for less! Can't wait!

Hey DP, nice to see you following along and chimeing in! :D