A Grower's Code of Ethics... Love, Stinky

Hello friends, growers, aspiring growers, and fans of the sacred Herb!

I wanted to take some time and put together a collection of my thoughts on various ethical questions that have come up during the time Iâ??ve been here at canncom.

This is only the first installmentâ?¦ more to follow.

It is by no means meant to be a holier-than-thou sermon, just my feelings on a few subjectsâ?¦ growing in your parentsâ?? home, taking othersâ?? outdoor crops, helping out a med user in need, selling, scrounging street lights, intellectual property of breeders, to name a few.

Some issues were addressed in old threads, and some are just out of my grow journal; I wanted to collect them all in one place to be both a personal manifesto and serve as a reminder that we are NOT criminals, we are honest people with morals and a sense of community.

When we all stand together peacefully and cooperatively with the common mission of showing our respective governments what we REALLY believe in, thereâ??s no force that can repress us.

For the guerilla farmerâ?¦

Since cannabis cultivation is generally illegal, if you want to hold yourself to a higher standard, it is important to remember not to put anyone else in danger, not to harm the environment, and not to break any other laws while cultivating your outdoor crop.

Where is it appropriate to grow cannabis?

That is a simple question!

You should pick your spot to avoid trespassing on private property and potentially endangering the owner of the land you plan to use. A homeowner could be in danger of legal problems if your crop is found by the police, even if the homeowner is not aware of it. He could still face having to pay outrageous legal bills to prove his innocence.

Places to look for are land owned by very large entities, who are far better protected from legal action, as they can reasonably well say that no representative of that entity is responsible for the plants.

The railroad company, the power company, and the government all own large tracts of land that are fantastic for growing cannabis. Beneath power lines and along the edges of a railroad cut are classic spots. Parks are good too if you are very careful. Land owned by a logging company can provide wonderful opportunities, as the roads are easy to ride on a mountain bike and the parts of the land suitable for cannabis cultivation are generally NOT suitable for timber harvesting.

What about the environment?

Take only pictures (and buds, lol) and leave only footprints, right?

Donâ??t leave your used fert bags or empty pots at the siteâ?¦ not just because of the risk of someone noticing them, but because of a respect for the earth. Notice the vegetation near your grow, and try to fit your plants into a logical spot where you arenâ??t going to need excessive irrigation or to cause a disruption in the ecosystem. Know what local plants are rare or endangered, and donâ??t interfere with them.

For everyoneâ?¦

This is an excerpt from a thread dated October 2006.


New Thread
Oct-03-2006, 12:55
stinkyattic
What do I do if I find cannabis plants growing in the wild?

This question comes up every year about this time.

You might be out hiking and stumble across a single cannabis plant, or a whole bunch of them.

Your first reaction might be, "wow, that's a lot of pot, I can't wait to get it home and smoke it! That's enough for the whole winter!", or even "I bet I can sell that stuff and pay off my car loan!"

But please stop and think for a moment.

Someone has put those plants there, taken risks, and worked hard caring for them since June. They aren't just growing there by themselves and someone is going to be heartbroken that they're gone.

Think about the grower as another person.

Maybe they would like to have some smoke for the winter, but can't afford the prices that dealers charge.

Maybe they are growing a few plants to sell.

Maybe they are counting on that income to help buy food and fuel for the coming winter.

Remember too that one of the obstacles to the legalization of cannabis is the theft, violence, and general dishonesty that can spin off of it. When tokers can be ethical and all get along without stealing each others' stashes, and then having the snots beat out of them for it, the case becomes stronger that it is a relaxing and peaceful way to alter your perceptions.

So when you stumble on a plant in the woods, remember that as a toker, you are part of this community. Just leave it there for the person who grew it.

Intellectual Property

An original strain is intellectual property of the breeder, the way a book is property of a writer and should not be reproduced without permission.

Since we are growing in a real legal grey area, we need to be a self policing community. The breeder often does not have the legal recourse to prevent knockoffs from being sold, as many breeders have to remain anonymous for fear of arrest.

Refuse to buy knockoffs! Itâ??s like the difference between burning a mix CD for a friend, and buying bootlegged videos off the street. If you want to make a few F2s and keep them as backup, or even give them to your best growing buddy, you have a reasonable right to do thatâ?¦ but to distribute them on a larger scale, or God forbid sell them for profit, is wrong.

This came from a thread that SubCool (an American breeder) started.

New Threadâ?¦ Part of Subcoolâ??s threadâ?¦
Jan-12-2007, 11:24
stinkyattic

Well I believe that ethically you should make every attempt to credit the original breeder if you are going to make a cross using his or her strain... for example, if I were to give you some seeds from a cross that I recently did with a really nice Afghani Dream that I got from a friend, and a Plan B Smashberry, I would give them to you with the heritage listed properly, just like the references in a scientific journal article, when you build upon previous research.

Now if I were to take those same Plan B Smashberry plants and just cross them to each other, that would be an F2, and I would not THINK of selling those seeds without the written permission of the original breeders, and would actually hesitate to even give them to friends since that strain is still on the market and I would be guilty of basically bootlegging their work.

I think that once the strain is off the market for whatever reason, such as the retirement of the breeder (which is the case with MasterGrown seeds selling BOG Bogglegum F2's recently on seedbay), if I had the original genetics I'd be happy to give them to friends at that point since the strain is unavailable, and to keep it alive, but it should be easier to convince the original breeder to allow production of the strain, again, WITH CREDIT WHERE CREDIT IS DUE, and selling knockoffs without permission is STILL highly unethical. Remember that bitch 420Mory? mm hmm....

See what I mean?

MUCH RESPECT your way stinkyattic! Good karma always finds its way home and I'm sure you have plenty coming.:D

With all due respect to Latewood and Zandor I'm going to put a sticky on this.....I feel it's justified.:smokin:

Have a VERY good one!:jointsmile:

Thank you Psycho4Bud.
I appreciate the support.

Hey..OK with me. Nice post...

I don't totally agree with the seed breeding post though. I agree with not buying crap...like mory420 sold, or never delivered. All seeds came from somewhere, before they were bred. So if a grower decides to breed, and produces a quality product...In the name of free enterprise...If said grower turned breeder wants to take the risk of selling his bred creations...He shouldn't be chastized for it. However; I feel that in these cases; credit should be given to the origin of the seeds. peace. Sorry for the rant, but that is how feel. Keep in mind, I said "If" and "Quality".

a note: Skunk, and Haze...etc. were originally bred somewhere, but then the breeders discussed sell them, after making crosses...NO difference IMO. What makes one breeder favored over the other...Time? I think not. Quality and delivery of said quality product after purchase is my only concern. Maybe I'm wrong, and I am sure someone will bring it up. LOL peace

Great sticky though, peace

Quote:

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Originally Posted by latewood

a note: Skunk, and Haze...etc. were originally bred somewhere, but then the breeders discussed sell them, after making crosses...NO difference IMO.
.

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Well of course that's true! I just think that effort should be made to cite genetic background.. the way dog breeders list pedigrees...
But Skunk and Haze are also so common as to be prey to the same sorts of reproduction as store-brand snack foods... the Doritos of the pot world, as it were!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by latewood

What makes one breeder favored over the other...Time? I think not. Quality and delivery of said quality product after purchase is my only concern.

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Actually TIME is a neat point! Like the difference between Irish folk music and something that was written by a KNOWN composer and something that was written by a KNOWN, LIVING composer... So for strains that would fall into similar categories, the way I see it... Durban Poison would be like folk music... Skunk #1 would be like the work of a classical composer... something bred last year would fall into the final category... the newer the strain and its parent strains, the more effort should be made to track that information.
I think the legalization of cannabis will really allow that to happen more efficiently.
Of course though I agree that quality is of prime importance and that a breeder risks mockery for releasing a crap strain!
Oh and re-reading the original post, Mastergrown had express permission to make and sell F2s... just so there is no confusion... he was acting with the consent of the original breeder, who had retired.

LOL! :D I can't wait till you get to the part about scrounging street lights & security lights. (guilty!)

[QUOTE][TIME is a neat point! Like the difference between Irish folk music and something that was written by a KNOWN composer and something that was written by a KNOWN, LIVING composer... So for strains that would fall into similar categories, the way I see it... Durban Poison would be like folk music... Skunk #1 would be like the work of a classical composer... something bred last year would fall into the final category... the newer the strain and its parent strains, the more effort should be made to track that information.
I think the legalization of cannabis will really allow that to happen more efficiently.
/QUOTE]
Another intelligent explanation from the stinkfactor!

The Doritos of the pot world.....lol. Great one:thumbsup:

growing weed is not a bad thing; don't make yourself a bad person by turning it into one; good stuff stinky

I agree!

wooo!:woohoo:

a nice standard to hold yourself too if u can money and greed do crazy things to people sometimes n what do u mean by selling the work do you mean selling the seeds or selling the nug from the plants that grown from the seeds that they gave knowing what was planned for them ur still sayin that credit should b given to the source n draw heat un-necisary to him just a hypothetical situation here but if i gave some1 seeds to grow n they choose to sell to sell the weed thats wrong? i think i might just be confused by what exactly you mean

please, friends don't let friends steal other people's dope crops.

Cracky

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stinkyattic

Intellectual Property

An original strain is intellectual property of the breeder, the way a book is property of a writer and should not be reproduced without permission.

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It is definitely a good thing to keep track of heredity for historical, scientific, and breeding purposes, BUT I STRONGLY OBJECT TO THE TERM INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY. This implies that the egos of growers must be stroked to have a proper growing community. The plants do their breeding by whatever higher power each grower does or does not believe in; the grower just babysits and makes sure they do not kill each other or break up the furniture. At best a farmer is a day laborer, but he/she is not the architect of the fruit.

I am thinking of the above metaphor of the dog breeder, and I do not think anybody believes a person should have intellectual property rights over the appearance and performance of the offspring of two different yet horny dogs they have kenneled in the back yard. Sure they would die if the breeder did not feed them, but we should be more concerned with the dogs than the breeders and likewise with weed.

Our society is evolving away from the notion of intellectual property rights, and I think that is a good thing. Ownership of anything is dangerous enough, but genetics? How are you going to feel about this after decriminalization and Pfizer with their 150,000 employees has intellectual property rights over your stash? Then bootlegging will be allowed, I am sure! :D

stinky did you forget about us?

Tea Party (are you really banned?) it is intellectual property if someone took the time to figure out the genetics (I don't mean like ATCG, more like Mendel's works). Even simply crossing a vigorous male with a very oily lady, that's not god, allah, or anything (well.. maybe the Tao...) anyway, it's human intellect, that may or may not be influence by a higher power, but then who's to say that any author, artist, whoever produced something wasn't influence by said power. SO, by acknowledging that there is intellectual property (i.e. books, paintings, strains of plants) then anyone who has put a thought into what they produced, has made it their own.
Oh, and btw, there's a reason why pretty much every commercial apple strain (even the ones you buy at the nursery) are either registered trademarks, or are copyrighted. Breeding cannabis is a trade, so is producing it, thus, if you name your stablized strain "booboo-kittyfuck" it's booboo-kittyfuck and nobody should call it anything else, nor should they intentionally disregard your work and not cite your work.

BAH!

oh, and the breeder's ego need not be stroked by anyone, just give them credit, at least by using its given name... ie booboo-kittyfuck

I think you're right, it's the effort put into creation of something that does not exist in nature that justifies putting the creator's own stamp on it and asking that it not be reproduced without the blessing of its creator.

Thanks for setting a standard guys. It's nice to see responsibility in the community. :)

I think it should also be said that we should try to avoid buying into the black market. IF you feel like you want to sell some, don't charge black market prices. Sell it to make enough to cover some of your supplies because it DOES cost money, even though it seems like free weed. $50+ for a gallon of nutes is not free! If you choose to sell it for a profit as some will inevitably do, you should donate a percentage to a charity or some kind of organization like the MPP or NORML. Its time to change the view of marijuana growers as criminals and start putting this plant and ourselves in a better light!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dejayou30

IF you feel like you want to sell some, don't charge black market prices. Sell it to make enough to cover some of your supplies because it DOES cost money, even though it seems like free weed...
...Its time to change the view of marijuana growers as criminals and start putting this plant and ourselves in a better light!

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Dejayou you have the kind of honorable thinking that makes med growers and activists proud.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dejayou30

I think it should also be said that we should try to avoid buying into the black market. IF you feel like you want to sell some, don't charge black market prices. Sell it to make enough to cover some of your supplies because it DOES cost money, even though it seems like free weed. $50+ for a gallon of nutes is not free! If you choose to sell it for a profit as some will inevitably do, you should donate a percentage to a charity or some kind of organization like the MPP or NORML. Its time to change the view of marijuana growers as criminals and start putting this plant and ourselves in a better light!

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I second that! I was thinking of starting one of these non-profit
co-ops and donate the profit's to Hep-C research and the cities
low-income programs...I think it could bail them out!!
just think no more homeless,starving people in your city!!
The city i currently live has alot of $$$$ problems first thing
that gets cut is help for low-income families.
I have been watching these medical marijuana despenciaries and
I don't see any of them donating any profit's back into the communities.
I see them making 2 million to 10 million a yr and keep it all,this is wrong.
on a goodnote i have seen a few of them that
are getting it rite,free meds, yes ty

wow...cant believe it took me this long to find this thread...i agree totally here....i would never breed anything without credit due. i may not have permission at times, like my cross now is sensi seeds jack herer and dutch passion bubbleberry....i write that every time, but i dont have their permission.
basically, i think you should get permission when you can, but ALWAYS give credit to breeders...how pissed would i be if i helped out another grower with beans, and all of a sudden, someone is on here having "created" bubble jack...i went through alot to pick out parents and select phenotypes of these...i cant do shit though if they did....
So always have respect for other growers/breeders.
:Smokebong:
whiskeytango

bump!

A question that has come up in our circle a few times regarding breeding and strains...

What about bagseed?

let's say you find a bean or 2 in a good bag that you want to grow but you have no way of finding out what strain it is or where it came from?

Is it best to just leave it as a great "unknown" smoke? or is it cool to give it a little nick name? would you find it unethical to share some clones of it with your grow pals? What if you wanted to use it in future crosses or breeds?

just some thoughts...
Skeet

IMHO, it's always going to be 'bagseed' or 'super local mystery mix' or something that reflects its origins as best you know. I am running a couple unknowns. One came from a mixed breeder pack from bushy old grower, so it's called 'BOG mystery'. Another is a local outdoor strain that even the growers are unclear on as to the origins, so it's 'Vermont Purple Shit'. Say I got something from my friend's carpet (yes, this has happened)... I'd probably call it 'rug nugs'... lol!

If you think it's worthy of sharing, go for it! If you think it's breedable, hey knock yourself out! If you end up stabilizing what it was that you liked about it in the first place, yes, you should definitely give it a name. It's a long process, and you'd have earned it.

Food for thought... ChemDawg, which has since become a legend, has been passed around in clone form for over a decade, and is the male parent of East Coast Sour Diesel (force-herm pollen against a female Massachusetts Super Skunk), was a bagseed...

Great Thread Stinky:thumbsup:

I want to bring Veggi's question to the top again because I feel it is worth a little discussion. Where is the money from these dispensaries going? I can see the overhead to run them, But if they are bringing in 10 million that is allot more than overhead. I do not live near any MM state or dispensary and I have no Idea what they charge So I guess I need allot of enlightenment on this subject.

My only real concern is if these dispensaries are making big profits and not giving some back to the community they are giving the movement a black eye.

JG

It's funny, I think about that too, and my take on it is that it is further impetus for all of us to grow our own. Since the site is so heavily sponsored by dispensaries, I am going to try to avoid getting into a big essay on the achievements and failings of MMJ legislation state-by-state but I WILL say that I am impressed by the VT style laws which are a true product of the Yankee do-it-yourself attitude: They say, in no uncertain terms: Grow it yourself, or register your Aunt Betty, the one with the crazy punkin patch, to grow it for ya. High prices for any medicine make me cringe, and when MMJ starts feeling like Big Pharma, I am going to cry.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stinkyattic

IMHO, it's always going to be 'bagseed' or 'super local mystery mix' or something that reflects its origins as best you know. I am running a couple unknowns. One came from a mixed breeder pack from bushy old grower, so it's called 'BOG mystery'. Another is a local outdoor strain that even the growers are unclear on as to the origins, so it's 'Vermont Purple Shit'. Say I got something from my friend's carpet (yes, this has happened)... I'd probably call it 'rug nugs'... lol!

If you think it's worthy of sharing, go for it! If you think it's breedable, hey knock yourself out! If you end up stabilizing what it was that you liked about it in the first place, yes, you should definitely give it a name. It's a long process, and you'd have earned it.

Food for thought... ChemDawg, which has since become a legend, has been passed around in clone form for over a decade, and is the male parent of East Coast Sour Diesel (force-herm pollen against a female Massachusetts Super Skunk), was a bagseed...

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Either way... credit paid where credit is due. THe seed that I grow is from breeders and seed banks. I *ALWAYS* refer to each strain by its name.... such as Arjans Ultra Haze#1, or Afghani Hundu Kush, or Sensimillia. THe last stuff I got from my brother(with medical card) in California, I didn't know what strain, so it it was refered to as "Cali Pharma".

If I had spent the time and money to produce a particular strain, I would sure as hell hope that the name I gave it would stick, and that my time and work were appreciated. Just keep in mind that once MJ is legal, there are going to be a hord of folks headed to the patent office for all of the induhvidual strains.

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Originally Posted by Mississippi Steve

Just keep in mind that once MJ is legal, there are going to be a hord of folks headed to the patent office for all of the induhvidual strains.

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HELL YEAH. You think Monsanto isn't already getting prepped to slap patents on whatever it can?
You bring up a really good point, the implications of which are that if growers DO have a good record of pedigrees and agreed-upon names and lineages, it will be harder for the agri-giants to steal them from us.
United We Stand, friends.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mississippi Steve

Either way... credit paid where credit is due. THe seed that I grow is from breeders and seed banks. I *ALWAYS* refer to each strain by its name.... such as Arjans Ultra Haze#1, or Afghani Hundu Kush, or Sensimillia. THe last stuff I got from my brother(with medical card) in California, I didn't know what strain, so it it was refered to as "Cali Pharma".

If I had spent the time and money to produce a particular strain, I would sure as hell hope that the name I gave it would stick, and that my time and work were appreciated. Just keep in mind that once MJ is legal, there are going to be a hord of folks headed to the patent office for all of the induhvidual strains.

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i thought u said all these new strains were shit old boy:rastasmoke:chill out bro,....thumbs up to stinky,smart man,he knows his shit,:thumbsup:steve just chill out and listen carefully to sticky and even subcool...u will learn a lot:rasta:

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Originally Posted by bigmumma

i thought u said all these new strains were shit old boy:rastasmoke:chill out bro,....thumbs up to stinky,smart man,he knows his shit,:thumbsup:steve just chill out and listen carefully to sticky and even subcool...u will learn a lot:rasta:

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Stinky just so happens to be a mad sexy ultra foxy....lady

Almost a year old. Must have dug a few pages back to call the inactive Queen of cann.com a guy.

More than a few handfuls have made the same mistake. =P

be

Im new to this site and readng through this is awesome, why cant all tokers have morals? stinkyattic props for being one of the few honest people out there :)

Great thread ...

Is Stinky still around ... havent read anything new from her lately ...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by legalize_it420_4ever

a nice standard to hold yourself too if u can money and greed do crazy things to people sometimes n what do u mean by selling the work do you mean selling the seeds or selling the nug from the plants that grown from the seeds that they gave knowing what was planned for them ur still sayin that credit should b given to the source n draw heat un-necisary to him just a hypothetical situation here but if i gave some1 seeds to grow n they choose to sell to sell the weed thats wrong? i think i might just be confused by what exactly you mean

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Is this English? Huh, what?

Great post with lots to keep in mind while working with the green wonder.

Good on you stinky........the need for education, exposure, and further enhancement will be justified one day. Looking forward to more ethics......Doin it with ease.