1st closet grow - Indica - 400w HPS

Hey, new here, first time grower (unless you count 4 seedlings that were in my backyard that went missing a few summers ago). So, I got the seeds (Chemo) and light (400w HPS kit w/ Gavita enhanced spectrum bulb). The closet is a linen closet which will be painted flat white soon, the floor measures 21.5"x29", height is all the way to the ceiling if needed, but preferably will be no more than 68". I have germinated and spouted 5 of the seeds in a mix of vermiculite, perlite and sphagnum pete moss under 2 20w 2ft fluorescent tubes and they are now on day 10. I am hoping to get a female I can clone or two females would be great, we'll see...I was thinking only two plants would really be possible for the size closet I have. I am going to put them under the HPS as soon as I get everything set up in the linen closet. I need to buy a new door, put weatherstripping to keep the light out/in and put the ventilation (2 fans and a carbon scrubber) in the door, so I can just swap the door if anyone comes over or if I move. Also have a 6 inch oscillating fan to blow on the plants.

About the socket (pictured below) for the hps that goes to the ballast...I have figured that the brass is live, the other is neutral but where is the ground, is there one?

Any idea how much I will yeild per plant?

I'll keep everyone up to date as time goes on.

Any suggestions, comments, ideas are welcome.

Also, there is a plastic peice in the bottom of the socket at the end, below where the bulb screws in so it sandwiches...is this supposed to stay or do you take this out?

hey dude-
I have a similar grow going in a closet a little bigger than yours (roughly 24" x 38"), I have a 400W HPS like you as well. I am on my second grow. Let me tell you that the first grow was disaster/learning experience to say the least. It is very very hard to grow in such a small space with so much light. This was not something I would have thought of and I am sure you have yet to realize it as well, but 400W HPS puts out an incredible amount of heat. Especially with white walls unless you plan to leave the door to the closet open constantly you will essentially be trying to grow your babies in an oven.

My problem was that the temps. got so high that the soil actually began to get baked by the 400W HPS light. This totally inhibitted root growth and I could not get my girl to grow more than 2 sets of leaves and no more than 3 inches tall. The only way to keep the soil cool enough was to provide so much water that it drowned the plant, leading to mold growth on the stem (damping-off), and overwatering which eventually killed it.

Even with the 2 fans circulating air, you will get to a point where you are only blowing around 95-100 degree air... which doesnt help. Because it is a closet I doubt there would be a way to easily/cost effectively have a ventilation system to bring in outside cooler air and expel the hot air from within. This leaves you (as it left me) with only one option: You are going to need to plan on leaving the door to the closet open 24/7 if you want any chance of a sucessful grow. With your 2 fans (assuming they are strong enough) you may be able to set them up so a fan above the HPS light expels the hot air as it rises and a fan at plant level blows in fresh air across the top of the plant maintaining a lower temp.

Fortunately for me, the door to my closet is in the corner of a room. On the adjoining wall is a large window about 20" away. I realized I could use a large bed sheet to isolate the window and the door to my closet. I am now able to blow in COOL autumn air from the window and have it go directly into my closet, while blowing out the heated air that eventually leaves out the top of the window which i leave open a few inches. If you happen to be lucky enough to have a window near your cloest door I would HIGHLY recomend figuring out a way to use that to get a source of cool air.

If you have any questions or need further clarification/advise let me know on this thread and I'll be more than happy to help you out.

-JPG

I just started my grow room yesterday, I have a 600 watt setup. My closet is 7 1\2 ft. tall but the closet its self is 2 ft. wide and 7 ft. long, my walls are also white, it got extremly hot in there i woke up in the morning and my soil was dry to the crisp..my lamp NOW sits 2 1/2 feet from the bottom of the soil do you think this is still to low ? ..I planted my seed yesterday ..do you think it damaged it? Also what do you think would be the best ht. for my light? i dont want to damage my soil ...

I had a friend who grew
in a tiny closet the size of a pew

he used a 1000 watt hps...
he used a squirrel fan shaped like an S

he took off the door knob and in its place
he put the squirrel fan, what an ace

the closet air was pumped out into the room
lowering the temperature, ending the gloom

the room had a smell it really stank
a sweet skunk, the super dank


I love you

Thanks for the reply man. Alright, well, I just turned it on and damn is it bright...it doesnt seem too hot with the oscilating fan, but I need to go get a thermometer. The door is also completely off the closet right now, but it cannot stay that way, it makes the house too bright, so it would have to stay shut or I would have to find a way to shield the light from coming out. There is a bathroom right next to it with a small window, maybe I can rig up something so the intake fan will suck air in from there, like a long tube going across the cieling or something.

It is actually pretty cool in there and its been on for about an hour and a half now. That might just be because there is no door though. When I put my hand above the light, I cannot feel very much warmth due to the built in reflector, but underneath it is pretty hot up until about 12" away, so I put the light about 20 or 21 inches away from the plants.

Hmm...not sure what to do, I also have a cat, so it definitly needs a door or something of some sort...I'm gonna go get a thermometer right now so I can see where i'm at...I'll update once i'm back.

day 11 pics - in the new closet...

Thats a cool poem...gives me some hope. Anyways, the temp. in there is about 81 with the door wide open and about 85 with the door open just a crack, so i'm thinking with the fans, it should be fine. The soil isnt drying up and its been quite a few hours and the fan in the pic is the only one in there right now.

For the intake/exhaust, what type of fans should I get?

Has anyone here grown/smoked this strain I got? How is it? Any up close (or any) pics of a flowering chemo plant?

Ok sounds like if the temps stay as they are it could work. I would try to find a way to utilize the bathroom somehow. Goodluck.

Hmm...wierd...I woke up this morn at about 9 and notice just a blue glow coming from the closet...I called the hydro store, they ended up fixing it under warrantee while the plants were back under the fluorescents...he said "they" blew the capacitor, but I dont know what was wrong before that. It was working at 4:30 in the morn when I got up for a few mins and the temp was around the same...about 86. At that point it had been on for at least 12 hours. Its strange, with the built in reflector, the top of the room is the coolest part and I have the ballast up there. Anyways, its fixed now so we'll see what happens.

I was looking at those vortex fans, but damn are they expensive...about 160 for a 4 inch 175 cfm. Anyone know of anything cheaper/similar and where? There was a squirl type fan for $120, but thats still kinda high for me right now.

Is the distance for the light alright? (21" or so)

Day 12...

Well, the temp went up to 90 during the day, so I put a spare peice of glass from a side coffee table in between the light and the plants...the temp immediatly dropped to 85 again. Now I really need to get that door going with the fans since the top of the room will probably get pretty hot now.

Wow...this has almost been stressful so far...I hope its all worth it.

Is the glass going to effect the light intensity? Do I have to move the light closer?

Oops...almost forgot the pic...there are a few inches on either side of the glass for cool air to rise and it actually isnt getting too hot up top. I wonder if that space between the wall and the glass will be enough for air to flow when I get the intake/exhaust set up.

I dont think a squirrel fan will fit on the door and still have it open since it is a bi-fold door, so I am thinking of 3 or 4 of those 4"-6" computer style fans they also have at the hydro store.

indie... can you cut a hole in the ceiling and blow the air into your attic? you don't need to bring fresh air in... you need to blow hot air out (ideally).. when you blow the hot air out fresh cool air will come in through cracks and shit..

if you can, cut a small hole in your ceiling and put a fan in the hole blowing air out of the closet into the attic.. when you shut your closet door you should feel a suction and fresh air will come into your closet from the bottom of the door and blow out into your attic.. this will keep your closet COOL

I wish, but this is in a basment. My fiance wont let me cut up the wall that connects with the bathroom (or any wall) because we are renting (and yes, i've informed her that I can make it look like it never happened). The other thing is that I want to put weather stripping over all the cracks so no light will get in and switch from 24/0 to 18/6.

Could I have the squirrel fan on a shelf and then run a dryer duct out a hole that will be cut in the door and then maybe just cut a hole in the bottom of the door for fresh air...maybee put a computer fan in the bottom?

Holy crap...one thing after another...the light just did the same thing again...I called the hydro store and they said they just saw a lightning strike just before I called so that might have caused it. It works for hours and hours, then boom a little blue glow, but it does feel pretty hot on the bottom of the ballast box and when I looked, there is what looks like a red wire kinda sticking out of one of the vent holes at the bottom...maybe it melted the wire's insulation, then grounded out...

Anyways, they are giving me a brand new kit tomarrow morning so the little guys are back under the fluorescents for tonight.

I want to make sure this doesn't happen again. What I am thinking is that my ground from the ballast to my homade fixture is not strong enough...look at the pic below...the green wire that goes to the fixture is the ground. Do I need a bigger fixture or maybe clamp a chunk of metal to the one I got?

I did see the TV and all other lights flicker off, then back on, but everything that I saw flicker is on a different breaker than the light...maybe the house did get struck by lightning, but the ground was suffecient on everything in the house except for my homade fixture causing the capacitor to blow again. If so...I guess it needs more metal?

Strange...just plugged it in for the hell of it and it works fine again...maybe it just needed to be reset by unplugging it or something...

Anyone know what could be causing this? The fixture?

Yesterday, I think I overwatered one of the plants...the one with the end of the leave curled upwards and turning color. There doesnt seem to be as much perlite and vermiculite in that one and this happened a few hours after I watered it. Oh well...i'll be more careful.

Anyone know if my fixture needs more metal than what I have? Is that strong enough to ground on? I have another peice of metal clamped onto it right now and the light has been on all night, but the ballast is getting insanely hot. I had it on linolium and it melted indentations into it, so I put it on a wood shelf in a seperate room. I can pick it up by the handle and its warm...the sides of the ballast box get hotter and then the bottom is hot as hell...you could probably cook an egg on it (very slowly). Is this normal or should I just go exchange it for a new one right away?

day 13...

Damnit. They are slow growers. Reminds me of my first grow... I don't want you to fuck up, so I'm gonna give you a bit of info that'll help you out BIG TIME. Take your idea, with the inductor fan and ducting tubes... EXCEPT: Install the inductor fan in a window nearby the growroom, with the end of the ducting that's blowin' the fresh mountain (or wherever the fuck you live) air inside. Dosen't matter if your in the city either. The point is, it's FRESH. And it will make a fuckload of a difference in both your plants growth rate and temperature problems.. of course those two elements are kindof hand in hand.. Post pics before you install the fresh air tube, and a week after. Your gonna flip :thumbsup:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RastaKaze

Damnit. They are slow growers. Reminds me of my first grow... I don't want you to fuck up, so I'm gonna give you a bit of info that'll help you out BIG TIME. Take your idea, with the inductor fan and ducting tubes... EXCEPT: Install the inductor fan in a window nearby the growroom, with the end of the ducting that's blowin' the fresh mountain (or wherever the fuck you live) air inside. Dosen't matter if your in the city either. The point is, it's FRESH. And it will make a fuckload of a difference in both your plants growth rate and temperature problems.. of course those two elements are kindof hand in hand.. Post pics before you install the fresh air tube, and a week after. Your gonna flip :thumbsup:

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I might do this for my plant, do you have any pics of something similiar to this so i can get a better idea of what it might look like?

Its a good idea and I'd do it except that I am renting and if the landlord goes in the backyard, he will see the fan...I dont know what I would say its for since it is getting pretty cold outside here...thats the other thing, the air from outside will probably be too cold (its about 45 now and getting colder and colder each day) and the temp in the closet is only at 84 - 86 now with the glass.

The growth rate has increased incredibly since they have been under the HPS though (they were under 2 20w fluorescents and not cfl's either, just regular t12's, 1200 lumens per tube)...they have only been under the HPS for maybe a day and a half in total since I was having problems with the ballast.

I have noticed what looks like little yellow spots on the original two serrated leaves of a couple of the plants, but very faint...could it be time for nutrients soon?

I have a blue-print of my design.. I'll try to scan and upload it for ya tommorow. You can get everything you need at Home Depot. And, trust me, the cold air is good. You get free air cooling during the winter this way.. simply lose the glass and place the outside air exaust near your lamp, temps will even out.. They do for me :D

kgnome u almoast made me cry with that sweet sweet peom. (ps im high :()

If you can post the blueprint, that would be awsome. I'd like to take a look...I would have to be able to take it down quickly if I needed to.

Hey indicloset...

I was looking @ the pic you posted on #14.... question, the metal strap... it works as a ground strap and as a support strap... Ok, I see the green ground wire from the socket getting hooked-up to the strap... but what about the other side of the ground?

Is that the yellow wire coming in from the top? Is that wire connected to the strap? I mean, I see that it's all threaded into the strap and everything, but is it actually stripped (from its insulation) and connected (metal-to-metal) to the strap?

Maybe your bulb/ballast problem is the ground... ???

Well, the yellow wire is just to hang it...no insulation is stripped off of it. The other end of the green wire goes to the ballast (whatevers hooked up in there, the shop did) along with the black and white wires for the socket.

I guess I should have mentioned that the ballast issue seems to be straightened out...I clamped another peice of metal to the metal strap to help it ground better and its been working fine ever since...the shop said its supposed to run hot like I was describing...I didn't end up getting the new one they offered me since this one started working.

day 14 update...a couple of my plants are drooping a bit more, so I'm not going to water for a while...about the first 1/2" of soil has dried now since the last time I mentioned I watered and the leaves started to doop. One plant fell down (or maybe my cat got it somehow...the door was open a crack), so I propped it back up.

pics...

There is this little runt, whose seed was three times as big as the rest...it also took twice as long to germinate (48 hrs instead of 24) and about three times as long to sprout. It was planted in the soil one day after the rest. Anyways, it has to be propped up, the leaves look funny, thick and dark and the stem kinda goes in a spiral right when it gets close to the ground...thats the weak point...it wont stand up because of that, its so skinny down at the bottom.

That one plant where you see the spots...those have been there since day 12 (ever since the HPS light went out the first time and I possibly over-watered), they are yellow, but you cant really see in the pic.

Oh well..2 of 5 seem to have no flaws...so far...

I brought my answer to your question from my Thread!........

I believe this fan could help out your grow closet alot by reducing unwanted heat,I say it would reduce your temps considerably!...............just add 6 inch's or so of duct to both sides of the booster fan for better suction!....good luck or you could run some flex duct towards the bulb or even close to the bulb should suck the hot air away from the canaopy...

how do you like the gavita bulb? I have been looking at that and wondering how good it would work...

latewood...The guy at the hydro store said its awsome for all-round use, but I cant really tell you from experience, this is my first HPS so I have nothing to compare it to. He still recommended Hortilux over them cuz thats what he uses, but they were out of Hortilux.

Mellow man...Thanks...I hope I get a chance to get going on this soon.

Do the plants look alright? Are they streching? Anyone know what the yellow spots are?

indicloset.. Today I got a timer for my 600 watt and when I turned it on threw a powerbar i had near to test it I got the same blue glow light you described, but when I took it out and plugged it back into the timer/wall socket it worked fine ..was wondering if you were connected to a direct wall socket or not ..

From what I've noticed, I guess what happens is if the ballast has been on for a while and is hot, then for some unrelated reason it loses power for a second and turns off (ie..you unplugging it to plug in timer, lightning at my house, etc..), when you plug it back in (or when it regains power) it wont turn on right away because something is too hot in the ballast box or it has a delay or something. Basically, just let it sit for 4 mins with a fan on the vents in the box, then plug it back in and it should work.

I unplugged it just for a second today and this same thing happened with the blue glow...it just need to cool off...I had the fan on it for maybe a 2 or 3 mins and it worked fine after that, but you have a bigger lamp.

I dont know if all HPS do this, but the Gavita first starts with just a strong blue light, then fades to yellow then orange/red, etc..

And yes, its plugged directly into a wall outlet, but its going to be on an extension cord soon so I can put it back on the shelf.

I am moving in an apartment soon...its on the top floor (3rd) and in the corner, the way it is designed is so the front door goes outside instead of in a hallway, there are no hallways, the buildings are all open to the outside and neighbors doors aren't right next to each other.

Inside, I have a choice of a huge storage room almost the size of a bedroom with no windows and the door is in the middle of the apt. or there is a normal sized closet I can devote and its right next to the bedroom window. I am leaning towards the closet because I think it would be pretty hard to ventilate the storage room. Either way, I'm sure it will work out better than what I have now.

Anyways, until then, I have to make due...I tried to make that fan with the bag and the ducting, but I think my fan is too small for the lenght of ducting I need (16 feet to go from window to closet), so I put the fan back the way it was and left the ducting going from the room, straight out the window. I can feel a slight breeze at the other end of the ducting so they must get at least a little more air. I have to go get a better fan tomarrow.

sounds like a f-king construction site on this thread.. contractors, worker bees, formen, inspectors, the whole f-ing 9 yards..

should turn out AWESOME

lol yeah if you need help give me a ring ..ill built you a green house for some yield :D

Haha...yeah, and it all started over a seed I found in a bag that didnt sprout, dissappointed me so I went to the seed bank in vancouver, then the store, then again to the store, and again...

I sure hope this turns out good, its getting too expensive to keep buying it...I've been smoking quite a bit lately.

Oh hey, look at that, its 4:20...am...woohoo...gtg

Oh, by the way, I took that fan with the bag and ducting idea and just did it with my bathroom exhaust fan (a bit shorter distance than the window), it said 50cfm when I had the cover off, I hope it works alright, the duct exit the top of the closet where its cracked and just runs along the ceiling to the bathroom fan.

This is some really decent weed I got, dont know what it is, just did a couple hot knives of it though...anyways, now I got to sleep, the kid past out an hour ago, now I can... :smokin:

indicloset: find someone that sell old appliance and ele heaters and get the squirrel fan out of it works realy good... be about $$30.oo that what mind cost.
MAKE sure the you LIGHT is the right one for the ballast I bought a light and it was not the right one and it did the same thing you are taking about...

Thanks for the tip, the 50cfm fan is not even making a noticable difference with the temp. Anyways, I got to run out the door, but later today, I should get a chance to get the fan.

A couple of the plant are drooping really bad. Maybe I should take a couple pics in normal light once I get back so you guys can see better. I think I may still be overwatering, but I waited until the first 2 in. of soil felt dry, but after I watered last, it seems like they drooped a bit more and one hasn't really grown since.

And the bulb is correct, 400w, ballast is 400w. I read more on this though, I guess its not the ballast that needs to cool down, but the bulb...it makes sense, if you look after you turn off the light, you can see it glowing, I guess you know its ready when the bulb stops glowing. The bulb and ballast seem to be working just fine now.

What I was trying to say, was they give me MH and I have HPS sys. it would work and then die cool off and work again and so on.

Oh, I see...no, its a HPS, it says on the package. Its working great now, it was just my ground before, it not coming on right away after it was unplugged is supposed to be normal (or so i've read).

I got the fan that you suggested Mellow Man except I got the 5 in. one, its supposed to be a bit more powerful, there was a sheet that said the sizes it comes in are 4", 5", 6", 8" all ranging from 80cfm to 465cfm. I attached it to the 4" ducting using a 5"-4" adapter that goes out the bathroom window. My temp is stable at 78 now, but I had to leave the glass in there, without it, it would just go right to 86-90 again, even with the air blowing straight at the bulb maybe a couple inches away. I think my bulb light produces more heat than others since the built in reflector directs all the heat downwards. Anyways, I cant wait to see how they do with the new temp and fresh air.

I noticed on my bulb where the glass meets the metal part to screw in, it looks kinda loose, there is a bigger gap on one end then the other and its tilted to an angle slightly...is this something to be concerned about?

Forgot the pics...

indicloset - how much did you pay for the fan setup?