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Just a couple of pics of an aero/fog ponic tray I built. This is 1/2 half of "fogfognugen" a 2 tray 4'x4' franken fogger I built. It uses two types and sources of fog; one is a "dry" fog made by a FrapaPlas ultrasonic fogger and second is a series of misting nozzles run off a pump currently running @ 180psi.
Going to start it out out with 2 TI Pro-Bloom's together on a light rail.:)
Was just working on light foot print/spacing of lights. Just abt ready.:D
Grown in da clouds.:cool::cool::cool::cool:
I love the future, brah.
Weeze
nice setup what kind of led light is that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubberbubbler
read the post!Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmac
looks awesome old mac! i can't wait to see it in action. i've got a fogger sitting around that i was thinking of putting to some kind of use.
i'm subscribed!
-shake
thats awesome what did u use for lids?
Headshake pointed what I had said, but to be clear I should mention the whole name.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubberbubbler
The LED's are made by Theoreme Innovations Inc. and are SmartLamp 600 with the Pro-Bloom option. These particular lights are now more then a year old and are the original housings, made of stainless steel unpainted. Newer lights have a different housing.:)
Hi disrupt86,Quote:
Originally Posted by disrupt86
The lids and trays are made by American Agritech now Botanicare, and I purchased the lids "blank" or un-drilled.
The holes are 44mm or 1 7/8" to use 2" net pots. Which I have found are not all the same. While the sample I used fit very nice the few thousand that we bought are slightly larger and don't fit as nicely. The neoprene collars I'm using are called "black stars" and are so much nicer then the typical EZ-clonner ones.
BTW: For anybody interested, I put up an album showing the building of fogfognugen.
Couple of pics of net pots and collar. The net pot on the left is the sample I used the one on the right, slightly larger.
thanks oldmac for replying with the whole name of the lamps. and headshake I did read the post quit looking for something to jump at somebody it was a simple question. thanks. I am not trying to get anybody going just tired of when I ask a question someone is their to smear it in your face
No problem Rubberbubbler. :)
In Headshake's defense I'd like to mention that he was just probably watching my back; I've had a few recent postings' that got ignored or miss read and I get really annoyed at the lack of reading comprehension sometimes.
"it's all good" as 'shake would say.
:thumbsup:
That pic with the fog flyin'... I actually drooled on myself....:thumbsup:
Looks awesome OldMac! Clone tray or SOG? If SOG, how long will u veg? I've never seen so many net pots in 1 place! lol
Also, can you elaborate a bit more on the dry fog? I'm intrigued.
Hello Joefarmer,
This is a SOG setup, and the trays are going to be used for flowering only. What veg times they get, they get in the clonner. Depending on strain, they will be in the clonner abt a week from showing roots. In the clonner they are just in the neoprene collars, transplant consists of putting collars into the net pots so they can't stay too long or the roots become a pain to get into the net pots.
I have built smaller setups that grow from cutting to finish in the same tray, which is fine for hobbyists' or personal grows, but to do production runs it is more efficent to clone cuttings seperately.
I use the term "dry fog" for the ultrasonic fogger because that's how it feels. You can put your hand in front of the output and your hand stays dry because the fog particules are so small. It has been shown that particules 5 microns or less are directly available to the roots' pores. By contrast if you put your hand near one of the mister nozzles it will feel and be wet, since the majority of it's fog particles are larger then 5 micron. This is really the difference between fogponics and aeroponics and why I consider this an aero/fog unit.
:)
Just for DreadedHermie, to drool over. Are you sure that was just drool? :D
Very cool popsā?¦very cool. Are me gonna see it in action?
Sonnyboy
i never needlessly smear anyone's face in anything. nor did i smear yours. it was said in jest. so don't get pissy with me because you "read" the post but missed pertinent information. i would think the words "light rail" would have given it away.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubberbubbler
i figure that once you are around for more than 18 posts you will figure out how the boards run. it's a tight knit family around here. don't take everything personally.
as far as people smearing your for asking questions, what is the common denominator? again, just trying to solve your questions.
like old mac said, it's all good! i've got no need to smear anyone. if you take time to read my posts you will see the majority of them are me trying to help others. same way that i helped you. you just didn't like the wording of the answer you got. to avoid this in the future perhaps searching for the answers oneself would alleviate this?
i always got your back old mac! just get tired of answering questions that have been answered or due to lack of paid attention. i suppose it could always be an honest mistake. either way, the answer was in the post. and a simple google search could have turned up what he was looking for. and it would have probably taken less keystrokes than it did to post the question.Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmac
i guess keeping my mouth shut is not one of my virtues, but perhaps something i should learn.
can't wait to see the plans you've worked up. i mean after all, i've been drooling over it with DH!
does it require any particular nutes or any special steps or anything?
-shake
Quote:
Originally Posted by headshake
I was just asking about the light. Like I said I was not trying to get anyone pissy and yes it was the wording you used and your right I should not take things so personal but it is kind of hard not to when someone makes you fell dumb. anyway I am just trying to be part of this wonderfull cannabis fourm and try to learn and or help if I can:)
no worries. i've been there. and i assure you that i never meant to make you feel dumb. i would never intentionally do that to anyone, unless it was warranted. it was obviously not in this case. stick around, we always need good people around here!Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubberbubbler
-shake
I don't know if anyone else looked into a T1-ProBloom, but they are $1395 each.......jesus christo man, that's a lot of moola for lights.
ForgetClassC,
Oldmac has two prototypes and I have one of their production units.
They are a bit of $$$ but work as advertized. They should last 7 years or so and still be on specs and uses about half of my equivilent HPS rig's power to get the same results. The output is so cool I can grow up to 6" or so from the bottom of the lamp (at which point light intensity becomes an issue instead of heat.) I'm on my second TI Probloom powered grow and loving it.
I'll leave oldmac to speak for himself, but I'm sure it will be positive.
M.P.
thx OM, will u use clay pellets in the netpots? Or will they be naked. I dream of someday not having to use cubes or pellets.Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmac
Don't sweat it, RB.Quote:
I was just asking about the light.
I reread oldmac's post and I couldn't find it either, and I know about those T1's. :stoned:
Of course, Hermie also could not find his shoes. :stoned::stoned:
Then, Hermie peed on his foot. :stoned::stoned::stoned:
THEN, Hermie found his shoes. Why are they all wet? :stoned::stoned::stoned::stoned:
Go in your control panel and turn on your rep! Left ya some!
Hermie :rastasmoke:
This is a SOG setup, and the trays are going to be used for flowering only. What veg times they get, they get in the clonner. Depending on strain, they will be in the clonner abt a week from showing roots. In the clonner they are just in the neoprene collars, transplant consists of putting collars into the net pots so they can't stay too long or the roots become a pain to get into the net pots.
Thereā??s something that Iā??m not gettingā?¦ā?¦.It looks to me fogfognugen would be an effective cloner. Why not do it all here and skip the transplant.
Sonnyboy
First post! in da middle.Quote:
Originally Posted by DreadedHermie
It's da nature o da meds.:stoned::stoned::stoned::stoned::stoned:
For wet shoes?
See Alice.
Weeze
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horsemanrocks
Not a bad observation, for a kid.;)
It's an extremely effective cutting starter.
Then all ya gotta do is reset da timer.:rastasmoke:
Aloha,
Weeze
As MP pointed out, you get what you pay for. These lights work and work very well. Have the most complete spectrum of any LED light produced.Quote:
Originally Posted by ForgetClassC
This tray is being set up with 2 lights and a light rail, more as an experiment, my partner wants to use 4 lights per tray. I do too, just got to get some money together. Can you imagine $5000+ worth of lights per tray? I can!:D
(remember also that 1 tray is just 1/2 of fogfognugen)
No medium all all Joe, just netpot and neoprene collars. Well that and fog. One of the main reasons I am going in this direction is to do away with a medium. In my personal grow I use RW and I have grown to hate it. Disposal problem with RW took me 1 1/2 years to figure out; you need to burn it so it will break down and burn it some more to eleminate the root evidence.:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Joefarmer
Hey Horsemanrocks (and 'Weez, DH, HS et al)
Fogfognugen is capable of growing from cutting to flower finish, but this machine was built for production and can do abt 6 cycles per year. I don't want to waste precious flowering time on rooting of cuttings that can be done in a couple of EZ-clonners. Since this was built over a year ago, I have built 2 smaller versions, using less expensive nozzles, pump and fogger. Both of these are being operated as clone/grow/flower machines with excellent results.
Someone asked about nutes, since it has an ultrasonic fogger it needs something that won't crude up the fogger. While it is not as sensitive as a pond fogger it still needs periodic cleaning. The cleanest nutes for pond foggers has been Humbolt Master, but I really don't like thier product line. So I was originally going to use Dutch Master Advance, but have been thinking of DM Gold, like I use in RW for this also. I'll see which runs cleaner. Aero or fog usually needs much less nutes then regular hydro. I'll be starting out with 20% solution for the starts then abt 40% after the first couple of weeks.
As to showing this thing in production, I'm really not sure. Alot of people start to get uppity about seeing something that has more then the "federal guidlines" of 99 plants. I must admit I wasn't comfortable even showing an EZ-clonner 120 filled (got 2 filled right now!). In my own defense when this thing is running, it produces one large root mass and all the plants are geneitically idendical......so it is one plant with 138 branches! Well that's my story and I'm sticking to it.
:)
Shameless bump to update.
Currently going thru a experimental run, have found that I can run consisitently 200-210psi thru the aero misters.
And to all that asked about it working with cuttings, that is going to get tried next. I found a problem with trying to go from the ez-clonners to the fog tray. There is a wilt off problem while the rooted clones become acclamated to the fog. This transplant shock seems to take a week to ten days to overcome, so it might be better and quicker (and cheaper) to simply put cuttings into the tray and start with fog to eliminate the transplant shock.
The other solution is to introduce fog to the clonners. We'll see.:)
DUDE that is an awsome setup wish I had one to play with. Let me know how you make out pics would be greatly apprciated
hey oldmac,
I would suggest introducing a fogger to the clone unit, that is if the roots are exposed to air inside the clone unit, if they're just floating on the oxygen rich water then there's no point.
Hey Pudish,
I will certianly do some root porn pics, still not sure about showing that many plants in one area tho.
Hello JMORGAN,
The clonners' are a pair of 120 Ez-Clonners, so they are basically a water spray culture, with plenty of room for fog. Each chamber of an Ez is about the size of the shallow trays I use abt 8 cuft each. I could support that much with the Frapaplas fogger I'm using but means running some pipe to another room. Or it means another fogger dedicated to the clonners, this is actually my first choice. But, it would cost nothing to simply take cuttings and start them out in the trays.
Currently running a very short flowering strain, shiva skunk, that takes abt 6 1/2 weeks, if I start in the trays I'm only looking at abt 8 weeks total. Not the worst for production.
The long term answer here is to introduce fog to the clonners. Thanks for your input.:thumbsup:
OLDMAC
Where would you suggest I am a fogger from. Anywhere you know that is cheap. I want one to play with. That is all. Something new. I might like it and use it all the time. Info would be awesome.
Thanks for the update oldmac.
M.P.
Sorry bout ^^^ thatā?¦.just couldnā??t stop myself.
No medium all all Joe, just netpot and neoprene collars. Well that and fog. One of the main reasons I am going in this direction is to do away with a medium.
So in time the root structure builds itself into the netpot. And being a SOG thatā??s enough support to carry it through?
I found a problem with trying to go from the ez-clonners to the fog tray. There is a wilt off problem while the rooted clones become acclamated to the fog. This transplant shock seems to take a week to ten days to overcome,
So what would you imagine if the reverse were to be true. Iā??m contemplating building an ultrasonic fogger/cloner and then moving them down the line to a bubbler pre-veg tray.
There was discussion on a thread that you participated in over at ICMag about the difference in the type of root development between the two (fog and splash). Canā??t say as I understood it completely. Iā??d love to get your take on the subject.
And, would you anticipate an acclimation period if the procedure was reversed.
Sonnyboyrocks.
I was just thinking about running a fogger-only clone unit, but I remember that if you have an air embolism in the stem it'll die pretty quick... so I guess there should def be some type of root structure before trying a fogger-only clone unit. or I could just be st0ned outta my head.
JMORGAN
:smokin:
Sorry to hear that HMR,
I tried the other day to answer you but the server timed out on me then would not let me sign on. Oh well got a few minutes now, let me try again.
Yup, just a 2" netpot and a neoprene collar is all thats needed to grow SOG or even larger. I use to grow 4' tall plants in a NFT system using just 3" net pots. It helps if the roots can reach the bottom, adds more stability. :D
There is a difference even between types of fog and of course water splashing. With an EZ-clonner type propagator, that is just water spray primary roots form first then some or a few laterals. With aeroponics that has a fog with an average droplet size of 50 microns, primary roots form then more laterals and some or few hair roots. With ultrasonic foggers like the Frapaplas creates a fog with droplets of 5 microns or less, you get primary roots, good laterals and more hair roots.
Rooted cuttings from an ez-clonner type propagator lack hair roots and enough laterals to get enough moisture uptake if left in only fog. They need or take time to develope the appropriate roots. Even the aero fog or mist, unless run for longer periods, will lead to wilt off. This will not happen tho if going from aero/fog propagator to say a water based growing culture, since the primary or tap roots will get all the moisture they need and can handle. And they must be present since they are the first to grow and must be present to develope lateral roots and hair roots.
Hope that helps lift the fog HMR, not sure what to tell MORGAN tho.;)
You gotta remember that song.
Sonnyboy is foggy???
Thanks for acting so surprised.
Iā??ve followed your fog brained posts at ICMag and at Fogponics. Iā??ll keep reading at fogponics, but I think that the discussions at ICMag have been more in depthā?¦.(so far). I do catch on rather slowly.
Okā?¦..for a wild ass guess here, I would imagine that if you added 5 micron fog to your EZ cloner that you would need to fog more predominately and only occasionally splash to get what youā??re trying to accomplish.
I do see the air roots form as they leave the bottom of the netpot and then disappear when the roots meet the solution below.
This will not happen tho if going from aero/fog propagator to say a water based growing culture
Well I just picked up a little ā??one lungā? ultrasonic fogger to create a very compact fogger/cloner. Say eight 3.75 inch netpots or possibly just neoprene collars. (Havenā??t decided yet) If I remember correctly the term at Fogponics is ā??on rails or aerorailā? (4X4 or 6X6ā? vinyl posts). Your reply of aero/fog propagator makes me think. I could easily add an airstone on each rail and fog some and splash some. I suppose that would all depend on how long that they stayed in the cloner.
For ease on my partā?¦.letā??s say that I built the cloner with the netpotsā?¦ā?¦used the 3.75ā? netpots with lava rockā?¦..do you imagine that the lava rock would mitigate the effectiveness of the fog. Lava certainly doesnā??t seem to stack anywhere near as tightly as hydroton.
There is a difference even between types of fog and of course water splashing. With an EZ-clonner type propagator, that is just water spray primary roots form first then some or a few laterals. With aeroponics that has a fog with an average droplet size of 50 microns, primary roots form then more laterals and some or few hair roots. With ultrasonic foggers like the Frapaplas creates a fog with droplets of 5 microns or less, you get primary roots, good laterals and more hair roots.
Rooted cuttings from an ez-clonner type propagator lack hair roots and enough laterals to get enough moisture uptake if left in only fog. They need or take time to develope the appropriate roots. Even the aero fog or mist, unless run for longer periods, will lead to wilt off. This will not happen tho if going from aero/fog propagator to say a water based growing culture, since the primary or tap roots will get all the moisture they need and can handle. And they must be present since they are the first to grow and must be present to develope lateral roots and hair roots.
I do appreciate the in depth explanation. I gives me something to look for in root development. For some of usā?¦..you really have to ā??spell it outā?.
Many thanks,
Sonnyboyrocks
__________________________________________________ _______________
What would Oldmac do?
Holy netpot! Thats alot of netpots!
Cant wait to see your thing of beauty in action...
Hi Old Mac,
Complete newbie here. I wanted to thank you for sharing this project with us. I find it very interesting and wait anxiously to hear how it goes.
When I get a lot more experience I would love to try a grow like this on a much smaller scale. I have faith that LED technology is able to get better results than what I have seen.
That is definately the coolest set-up ive ever seen. Im all of the sudden really diggn the foggyfog idea. REAL SICK!!!!
Man im so curios i HAVE to ask, what kinda w/g are you avgn?