Re-occuring tip burn/WALL of text

H=Hydro
R=RockWool in Geolite
D=Ebb and Flow system, 4 times a day for 30 minutes at a time
E= EVERYONE needs to answer lol!


E-indoor (grow tent)
E-hydroponic
E-Rockwool cubes planted in 1 gallon bags with geolite
CSL-Geolite
HCL-Hydro/Ebb and Flow
E-Filtered tap water (inner city)
E-Source water pH 7.0 (after filtered its ~6.5)
HRT-Source water EC (if hydro) - I donâ??t know what this means
E-Almost 3 weeks
E-Ionic Grow/Bloom
E-Rate of application (if hydro, this is your PPM number, preferably after each component is added) â?? I donâ??t know how to answer this question other than saying I water 4 times a day for 30 minutes at time
E-Lighting source and distance from plant â?? T5 Metal Halide/3 feet
E-Air temperature (both day and night if you are running a dark period) â?? Max 81, generally 78, drops to low 70â??s at night
HD-Reservoir temperature â?? most likely 60â??s or 70â??s
E-Air % Relative humidity â?? 40 to 50%
E- 18 on 6 off
E-Intake/Outtake fans in the tent, the room has no ventilationâ?¦I keep the door to the room open mostly however
TR-Pre soaked the rockwool cubes for 24 hours in 6.0 PH with ½ strength Ionic Bloom

To begin with the pictures that Iâ??m going to attach are all clones that were started just shy of 3 weeks ago in the system. The situation however is this has been a re-occuring problem. I have now tried and gone through two failed crops and working on my third with this one. What is happening is that I start getting white tips that turn brown and even leave curl and browning on the edges of the leaves. It doesnâ??t seem to start till they get to be about ~10 inches tall. The first crop which was started from seed from a swag bag got to be around 2 feet tall but by the time it got around to harvest the buds were like finger nail size and the plants looked like they would catch on fire in a moments notice (almost all brown/dried up leaves). The second crop was clones that got probably close to 12 inches before they started showing signs of the tip burn and edge curling/browning and it progressively got worse till I decided to harvest the slightly larger than fingernail size buds. Growth was slow on both attempts and I swapped them over to 12/12 light cycle with bloom at 12 inches. However, the tip burn usually started before I swapped them over to bloom. With this crop, 5 of the clones sprung up fairly quickly to about 9-10 inches and then rapidly deteriorated with the tip burn/leaf curling and browning. At the end of the first week I started noticing that the leaves were curling and there was beginning signs of tip burn with white tips. The 3 small ones however barely grew but the leaves they had were very yellow on the tips till the point of some of them being almost entirely yellow. By the end of the second week the small plants had barely gone anywhere with lots of yellowing on the leaves and the 5 bigger ones had excessive browning that started at the tip and on the edges. Iâ??d also like to say that I started out with 4x T5 metal halides and the 4x T5 equivalent to sodium lights in the ballast. At the end of the first week I removed the 4x T5 sodium lights and went with the 4x metal halides only but didnâ??t see any improvement by the end of the second week. I change the water every two weeks so when I changed the water this time, for the first time ever I tried reducing the amount of nutes (Ionic Grow) to 3.5 tsp/gal instead of 4 tsp/gal like the bottle recommends. Now at nearly 3 weeks (I trimmed most of the dead leaves off) the 3 smaller plants have almost caught up with the 5 big ones. The smaller plants also have mostly 5 leaf growth and the bigger plants have only 1 -3 leaf growth and they havenâ??t hardly done anything for this whole week. Also the smaller 3 plants have darker leaves than the larger and generally look more healthy overall with the exception of white tips on almost all their leaves. Iâ??d also like to mention that this is 40g resv. and Iâ??m filling it to 35gallons. I have been keeping the water in the resv. at PH 6.0 every grow attempt Iâ??ve made. Iâ??ve always used the recommend nutes/gal. on the bottle and this is the first time Iâ??ve tried nocking it down alittle and so far the plants havenâ??t really deteriorated anymore but they arenâ??t really hardly doing anything and the smaller plants are coming up slowly but it seems like their growth has been stunted from the beginning.

After reading through some posts on here I do now realize Iâ??m maybe .2 high on my PH but I donâ??t really feel like thatâ??s the answer to all my problems. I tried looking at my water report online but couldnâ??t find any pertinent information on the web other than what chemicals were in the water and that my local PPM is ~120. Also I wanted to know about my lighting situation. I have a 8 light ballast. I have 8x metal halides and 4x T5 red lights. What should I be using?? Someone recommended I run 4x metal halides and 4x T5 reds and Iâ??m not sure if its adding to the problem or not, but like I said earlier Iâ??m only running 4x T5 metal halides at the moment. :(

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I'd also like to mention that there is a white clacium type buildup that shows up on the upper layer of geolite where the water level floods to.

That looks like hydro to me so your very first problem would be that your ph is too high for hydro apps. It should be no higher than 6.2.....5.6 beng ideal imo.. Yes, your ph is abnormal enough to kill off your plants by creating "less than healthy" plants.. Second, let me ask about your home water filter. How is it filtering your water.....through some sort of sodium? Most home filters do and the resulting sodium level is too harsh for cannabis.

Last question; what kind of grow tent are you using?

Well, I am keeping my PH in the resv. at 6.0. I am filtering my tap water through a britta filter. My tap is 7.0 PH and after being filtered through the britta filter it nocks it down to ~6.5. After I fill my resv. I put in my grow or bloom, then use PH down to get it to PH 6.0. But I've been using PH 6.0 for everything.

And my grow tent is 800 cubic inches, like black nylon stuff on the outside and the inside is this white reflecting pastic kind of stuff.

Hmmm Bertox is an EQ named mob is it not? You say you are running lights at 18/6 but using Bloom, are u veggin or flowering? Also the white calcium looking stuff is most likely a salt residue, possibly from the Rockwool. Do you flush on a normal basis?

Yes, it is an EQ name, god of disease. Funny someone noticed! Anyways, I run my lights as 18/6 veg and 12/12 bloom. And when you mean flush, do you mean with just PH adjusted water? And how many cycles? All I do, every two weeks is pump the water out of the resv. and fill it back up with 35g of water, then put either grow or bloom nute depending on if they are veg or bloom and PH adjust the water to 6.0 before they get watered. Again, this is a 40g resv.

Ok, what is the Name of your grow tent? Is it an older style tent or have you grown successfully in it before? Hydrohut made one set of tents that caused growers plants to die off due to a weird gas the tent or the poles gave off. You don't see many of them anymore is it an issue that the company has resolved. Just trying to cover all the bases.

Now, you seem like a go getter to me. Call Britta and ask them what chemicals they use in their filters to "soften" the water and exactly what is removed from the water during this process. I believe the answer will not only surprise you, but also cause you to switch the water you are using to either plain tap (sometimes it works well in hydro apps; just depends on your water. Personally I would use RO or distilled water and CakMag for hydro apps.) Definitely lose the Britta filter imo.

PS...if your ph is going in to e and f at 6 but coming back higher thats a different issue. is it?

good luck

Well, I've spent an hour digging around for my receipt and I can't find it. Neither can I find the instructions for building the tent which, by the way were terrible to say the least. But to give you an idea this tent was purchased in late 2008. I have yet to grow anything successfully as of yet. This set of clones is my third attempt at growing. I would assume however that these are newer tents, but who knows at this point. Here is the info I got off the net about the brita filters...

What do Brita® Faucet Filtration Systems remove from tap water?
Brita® Faucet Filtration Systems with Advanced Features (Model FF-100) and Brita® Faucet Filtration System (Model OPFF-100)
The Brita® Faucet Filter removes microbiological cryptosporidium and giardia. It also reduces lead, TTHM, VOCs, lindane (pesticide), 2,4-D, alachlor, atrazine (herbicide), chlorine (taste and odor) and sediment1. For more information about the impurities that Brita® Faucet Filters reduce, including any health risks they may help avoid confusion.

Also...

How the Brita® Faucet Filter works
An added layer around the filter traps large particulate matter from the water
Activated powdered carbon acts like a sponge, sucking up Chlorine (taste and odor and Benzene)
A zeolite acts like a magnet attracting Lead

I am still not educated enough to know if any of that listed is a problem or not.

Now onto the water thing you mentioned. If after reading this you think its better for me to just go ahead and use tap then I'm all over it but, you say that RO water or distilled water using CalMag is my best option. First, considering I'm using a 40g resv. I really want to get my water from the house. I don't know much about plumbing so I don't know how hard installing an RO filter will be in addition the cost of one of them. If I did get an RO filter is there any way I can make it where its not "inline" with the rest of my plumbing? Like something I could attach to a faucet or something easy like that? Also, how would I go about distilling water? Would it be too much of a hassle considering its a 40g resv. and I drain/refill it every two weeks? I've never checked my grow store for CalMag because I didn't know anything about it till I visited this site...do you think most grow stores will carry it? Also, if I were to use just plain tap if you think its better than using a brita filter, should I still use CalMag or do you only use it for RO and distilled water? My water treatment plant said average is 120PPM, after reading some other posts that doesn't seem all that bad to me, and if thats the case is it low enouph where I should use CalMag?

I'd also like to say that there is a easy quick connect RO filter but its kinda pricey. Here is the link. Premium Counter Top, Portable Reverse Osmosis Systems & Drinking Water Filters I just don't know if I can commit to that but if you guys think its the answer I will invest in it.

Well I couldn't figure out how to edit my previous posts so I'm just going to make another post. I'd like you to pretend that I won't be able to purchase a RO filter or a Distiller machine. One thing I would like to mention though about putting the water in the resv. every two weeks is that I fill it with gallon jugs. Now, I fill the water in the jugs with the brita filtered water the day that I actually drain and fill every two weeks. What I'd like to know is if I should fill the water and let it sit for a while and if that would matter at all. Also, I'm not really all that hot on how the lighting makes affects on the plant other than when heat affects them and I'm positive heat isn't a problem because I'm using T5's. What I want to know is if there could ever be a situation where there is TOO much light, or is there no such thing? The reason I ask is cause I was using four T5 metal halides and four T5 red lights (I don't know what they are called, they have a kind of pinkish color to them and I'm supposing are the equivolent to sodiums). Right now I was affraid that the four red lights may have been causing issues so I'm only using four metal halides right now but I could theoretically use eight in the tent.

On the question bout the PH in my e & f setup, I'm filling it with only brita filtered water, then I put in the nutes, and then I lastly PH it down to 6.0. Usually it will go back up to maybe 6.2 overnight and I have adjust it maybe 3 times total and then it generally stays at 6.0 for the remainder of the two weeks. There have been a couple instances where I had to nock it up, and just recently with these plants when I first put them in the system I had to nock it up to 6.0 at least five times before it stabilized. I do think that maybe because I'm alittle high on my PH that it could be part of the problem but at this point I'm just totally at a loss of what to do. I will say that generally the PH goes up very slowly though from what I can remember from these last three attempts, I've rarely had to raise the PH, I usually have to nock it down. I will say as of right now, the plants are not really deteriorating much anymore but the smaller darker leaf plants have white tips and the lower bigger leaves tips are starting to burn very slowly. What I'm afraid of, is that now that I'm using 3.5 TSP of nutes/gal. instead of the recommend 4.0 TSP nutes/gal. that I've slowed the nute burn issue to some degree but maybe now the plants aren't getting enough of some of the other elements in the nute mix. Five of the plants sprung up real fast and then started burning real fast and then the other three didn't hardly grow at all and there was alot of yellowing on the leaves from the tip and edges moving inward. Now the ones that were yellowing have much darker leaves than the five that sprung up real fast but still have white tips and some of the lower leaves are starting to actually burn and turn brown on the very tips and the big ones haven't really grown at all, but haven't really deteriorated any further after I used 3/4 nutes instead of full nutes. I would like to also mention that I'm pretty much considering these clones as test subjects because I've got seedlings going and they are springing up very quickly. I soaked rockwool cubes in 1/2 bloom for 24 hours and then planted the seeds after they started showing roots comming out of their seeds. I watered them twice a day with PH 6 water only for about 4 days and already have roots comming out of the rockwool so just yesterday I started watering them twice a day with PH6 water with 1/2 strength grow and they are already three inchs tall and looking healthy so far. But I'm trying to figure out what my problem is with these clones first hopefully before I need to actually put these seedlings in my system because they are good quality seeds (AK-47) but are un-sexed. With all my fiasco's so far, if I can get these to stay healthy and bloom, I plan on seeding the females if at all possible because I'm down to swag seeds and clones isn't really a steady option for me at the moment until I can get something to grow.

Holy Crap!! You were not joking. Before going further do this test for me.

Take some of your regular tap water (like a gallon) set it to a certain ph (lets say 5.6) Then leave it overnite and check the ph in the morning and let me know what it is....Don't buy anything until you've tried this. Let's start there.

Will do, I'll test it tommorow when I wake up and let you know where its at. I'm starting right now which is.. 9:08EST. I will set it to 5.6 like you said, thanks for the help by the way, I really appreciate it!

I noticed the EQ name cause I have been playing for about 7 years now and still do. As for water for Hydro, all I use is tap water with GH Flora series nutes and adjust the PH down to 6.0 only other thing I put in the water is Superthrive but that gets takin out of the mix for flowering. By all means listen to what WH tells ya!! WH has a thumb alot greener than mine and I just try to help where I can :jointsmile: BTW my avatar is my main EQ toon hehe

@Weedhound - My PH this morning when I tested it I left the pen in there for about 2 minutes it sat at 5.8 for a while and then near the end of the two minutes dropped down to 5.7. Again last night I did as you said and adjusted it to 5.6. I made very sure it stayed 5.6 consistantly before I set it aside for the night. This PH test done this morning was probably 30 minutes shy of 12 hours from when I adjusted it last night.

@ tinytoon - I noticed your avatar lol. What are you a halfling druid or cleric? I can't remember if halflings can be clerics or not lol. I played EQ for about 4 years, almost 5. I'm playing a different MMO now however but I'll never forget the good times I had in EQ, they were the best.

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Originally Posted by bertoxxulous

Well, I've spent an hour digging around for my receipt and I can't find it. Neither can I find the instructions for building the tent which, by the way were terrible to say the least. But to give you an idea this tent was purchased in late 2008. I have yet to grow anything successfully as of yet. This set of clones is my third attempt at growing. I would assume however that these are newer tents, but who knows at this point. Here is the info I got off the net about the brita filters...

What do Brita® Faucet Filtration Systems remove from tap water?
Brita® Faucet Filtration Systems with Advanced Features (Model FF-100) and Brita® Faucet Filtration System (Model OPFF-100)
The Brita® Faucet Filter removes microbiological cryptosporidium and giardia. It also reduces lead, TTHM, VOCs, lindane (pesticide), 2,4-D, alachlor, atrazine (herbicide), chlorine (taste and odor) and sediment1. For more information about the impurities that Brita® Faucet Filters reduce, including any health risks they may help avoid confusion.

Also...

How the Brita® Faucet Filter works
An added layer around the filter traps large particulate matter from the water
Activated powdered carbon acts like a sponge, sucking up Chlorine (taste and odor and Benzene)
A zeolite acts like a magnet attracting Lead

I am still not educated enough to know if any of that listed is a problem or not.

Now onto the water thing you mentioned. If after reading this you think its better for me to just go ahead and use tap then I'm all over it but, you say that RO water or distilled water using CalMag is my best option. First, considering I'm using a 40g resv. I really want to get my water from the house. I don't know much about plumbing so I don't know how hard installing an RO filter will be in addition the cost of one of them. If I did get an RO filter is there any way I can make it where its not "inline" with the rest of my plumbing? Like something I could attach to a faucet or something easy like that? Also, how would I go about distilling water? Would it be too much of a hassle considering its a 40g resv. and I drain/refill it every two weeks? I've never checked my grow store for CalMag because I didn't know anything about it till I visited this site...do you think most grow stores will carry it? Also, if I were to use just plain tap if you think its better than using a brita filter, should I still use CalMag or do you only use it for RO and distilled water? My water treatment plant said average is 120PPM, after reading some other posts that doesn't seem all that bad to me, and if thats the case is it low enouph where I should use CalMag?

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Distilled water for a 40 gallon rez is not an option. Distilling takes time and work. Any filter is better than none although 120 ppm's are not bad if you can trust that. MY bro has well water and uses a brita filter. He was having problems till I got him to try calmag, he only uses half what it calls for and he says it's boombastic. I might would go to slowes or the homedepot and get a cheap filter and some fitting to hook it to an garden hose. So you can hook up and then take it off. A 2 stage or any filter will help and some one there can show you the fittings for a hose. At 120 ppm's I would maybe just try a little calmag. Your water only has some salt , chlorine and floride in it.

Other than that I would like that quick hook up R/O filter but the price is just too much for me right now.

Why did the CalMag help Loc Nar? Because that's what his Britta filter is stripping it from his water and leaving the sodium. The thing about RO or distilled.....it pullls EVERYTHING from your water....including the extra sodium our plants DONT need, We started out with a Britta filter as well before going to RO and it was a MESS. We use well water and had trouble holding ph. You apparently do not have the same issue!!! lucky you!!


What's the ppm of your tap without the filter? If it's 200 or under, lose the filter and add a couple mls/gal of Cal Mag. That would the very first thing I would try.

Good luck.

PS......looks Loc Nar beat me to it. I won't forget that loc nar. :D

@ LOC NAR - Well, I was recommended to get a 40g resv. and from some of the things I've read that it isn't necissary and I could have been just as good as with a 20g resv. In fact, I don't even really know what the benefits of having a 40g resv. would be other than that its a big pain in the ass to fill/drain and clean.

I would like to ask another question regarding the size of my resv. though...the water level doesn't drop that drastically in this size resv. so I don't really have to worry about the pump not being submerged when its flooding even at the end of two weeks. I have not been topping this resv. off or adding any nutes...I just drain/fill every two weeks. I was reading something in the faq. that recommended topping the resv. off throughout the week with just PH balanced water and then at the end of the first week adding 1/2 strength nutes to the resv. With 4 tsp/gal. which is what the bottle recommends for Ionic Grow/Bloom that is like 2.917 cups of nutes at 35gal. This last week I did 3/4 nutes which was 2.5 cups for 35gal. Now, should I be adding 1/2 strength nutes for 35g at the end of the first week or not? And, should I be periodically putting more water throughout the week in resv. even though its so big?

I do not have PPM meter right now so I've no way of knowing how much nutes are in my system because where I got my info from didn't recommend me purchasing one. Also, after reading in the faq. about nute deficiences the three small plants sound alot like a Phosphorus deficiency, and the five larger ones sound something like a Potassium deficiency. So am I not giving the plants enough nutes because I only give them nutes every two weeks in the 40g resv.? The thing is though when I dropped the nutes to 3.5 tsp/gal. instead of 4 tsp/gal. they are not really growing much but they aren't having the hardcore tip-burn stuff going on last week. The smaller plants are still having white/yellow tips at the very end and the lower leaves are showing browning on the tips but the plants are actually looking healthier by far than they were last week after dropping the nutes to 3.5 tsp/gal. instead of 4 tsp/gal. but I do think that because I've been using 6 PH I may have also been locking out nutes as well, I just don't know if thats the case or not. The PH in the resv. is now at 5.6.

get you a ppm reader. How many plants have you got going in this 40 gal res?

@Weedhound - Thank you so much for the early response, I'll be heading to the grow store today. So your saying 2 ml/gal.? I'm also going to drain my system and refill with tap. Should I still go with 3/4 nutes still or go with full nutes? Also, I'll keep my PH at 5.6 as well. By the way my tap is 120 PPM.

@Weedhound - I've got 8 clones going in the 40g resv. right now. I can probably fit 16 one gallon bags in my flood table but I can probably fit around 8-10 at full growth before it gets too cramped.

There are several basic rules to follow in hydro: When in doubt, decrease nutes, make sure of your ph, and increase aeration. So I;m going to say less nutes for now because a deficient plant will get worse with less nutes....but overnuting can kill your plants right off so it's always a better bet than raising nute levels "just to see if it helps" Usually a deficiency or lockout will simply become more apparent with less nutes.....helping you pin down the problem as many plant problems appear similar and sometimes all you can do is change things one by one until you find it.

I'd start with 1/2 strength nutes as directed on bottle. Your regular water minus the Britta.. Then I'd add 2-3 ml/gallon CalMag, adjust ph and see how they are looking tommorrow.

Ps ...check out Stinkyattic's Sticky on using RO or distilled water and cal mag. It's in the hydro forum and has tons of useful info about water chemistry.

I miss stinky.....:(

Well total things I'll be changing today then, I've got a 20gal resv. that I'm going to swap out with the 40gal, I'm going to put in the 2-3ml/gal Calmag, 1/2 strength nutes, and use tap instead of brita filtered water. I'll let you guys know when I've got that all set up. Hopefully they have CalMag at the store.

What happend to Stinky?

She got a life, damn her. :S2:

Sounds good; hope that works for you and I'd been willing to bet your hydro store has some sort CalMag (hope)

Also....not necessarily today.....but consider.a ZYME product for root health. Ask your hydro guy about them.......I love them myself and good ones really do hold root rot at bay. (not that I think this is your problem right now.......just thinking ahead.)

Keep us informed how it goes.........good luck..

double post....sorry :(

I can't remember if you have well water or not.....is there chlorine in it before you filter or are you guys on a well? If you are using CITY tap water, let it sit overnite before you use it to let the chlorine dissapate.....well water....no such problems unless you are adding something yourself.

Well, I'm just about to go, but I was reading up on that stuff you had suggested and your guide and I've got a question, you measure everything in PPM and I guess I don't know how to convert that PPM over to some metric or standard amount to use for the nute solution. I just isn't making sense to me I suppose. I don't know if I'll be able to afford a PPM meter or not but I'll let you know when I get back this evening...it does seem like a necissary thing however..I can see the importance in it. Another thing I'd like to ask...I've got Spray-n-Grow and I was wondering how much you think I should use it? I've been doing something like once a week foliar.

Yes, I live and die by pppms (actually it's the plants.....haha) so I feel a good meter is important but I like to take things step by step. If you are giving 3/4 strength nutes then I'm certainly comfortable dropping that level back because the plant has already seeen that level....so I know a lesser level is safe.

While we went out one day and spent a BUNCH of money one day to buy EVERYTHING we'd ever need it just doesn't seem to work out that way. You'll buy more equipment down the line as you dial in how you like to grow. Your growing style will change. Some people love the control you can achieve with hydro, while others find it a comlete hassle. There are those who never touch a ppm meter in hydro but I wouldn't even try it. There's more than one way to skin a cat you know (I've always hated that phrase but it fits here.....sorry all kitties) which is why I'm suggesting things rather than telling you that you need them.

PPMS are actually a less accurate term for measuring the nutrient content in your solution. The actual thing being tested is EC....the electrical conductivity of your water. This is the most accurate waya to test nute strength because it remains the same......the terms ppms (parts per million) and TDS (total dissoved solids) (both mean the same thing) are converted by your ppm meter; usually at calibrations of either 700 or 500. So basically the true meter is an ec meter........and it automatically calculates the ppm number for you.

Quite frankly, since I wrote that guide I no longer really use any foliar sprays except when needed; such as for pest control and mold prevention etc......I just don't really like what it does to the leaves after awhile. That said; if I was still using one it would be Liquid Light by Dutchmaster. Expensive, but DM products work well. I'd save the $$ on foliar sprays and let the nutes and light do the work.

Sorry, have never heard of Spray and grow so no help there.

Good luck.....it's just a matter of finding out what works for you and what doesn't There's merely a few million more details work out..........:D

@WeedHound - Well I just got back from the store not too long ago and and I do now have a decent PPM meter and some CalMag. I would like to let you know that I talked to the guys at my grow store and now realize what the fuss was about with the 40gal resv. I have a 2x4 flood table that is ~6 deep. The 40gal has enouph water to flood my table all the way. They also said that adjusting PH and nutes is easier in a larger resv. So it looks like I'll just stick with the 40gal. Now the other thing I was thinking about is that, I have only 27 one gallon jugs for filling, so I won't be able to let all of the water sit out over night. I usually put 35gal. in the resv. so thats a difference of 8gal. that would be able to sit over night. The brita filter said it pulled chlorine out of the water so I was wondering if I should fill those last 8 with brita filtered or just regular tap? And lastly....about the PPM thing...I guess what I'm trying to say is, how do I know how much overall PPM I'm supposed to be sitting at, at any given time (for example, I know I'm supposed to be at 5.6-5.8 PH, is there some number like that for PPM)? And, if thats the case how do you mesure your nutes based off of PPM instead of tsp/ml/gal or whatever? I'm going to measure my PPM in my resv., tap, and brita filter and let you know what I come up with.

Well, I'm guessing this isn't good news because earlier you had mentioned that if my tap was 200PPM or less then I could get away with using the CalMag but I just measured my tap and its at like 305PPM and using the brita filter doesn't seem to really make a difference either. My 40gal. resv. that I have my clones in right now is at 965PPM, with only PH balanced brita filtered water and Ionic Grow nute solution.

So maybe things are starting to come togather for me but I just looked on my jug of Ionic Grow and it recommends an EC of 1.8mS. My PPM pen says its TDS Factor is 0.5, and referring to the chart at hydroponics articles - Electrical Conductivity that you had linked back in your guide would mean that my Resv. should be at 900PPM at all times? Am I starting to understand this or am I wrong? Also, I'm not sure what to do about the water now that my tap water PPM is 300+.

Ok first....what type of tds meter do you have? What exactly is it measuring, tds or EC? I don't care either way but it matters because of conversion rate......is yours at 500 or 700 or is it reading straight ec?

Second.....amounts are a guidline ALWAYS. Watch your plants reaction and learn to feed and nute based on how they look. Believe me, the company is giving you averages, not absolutes. Always stay on the light side if you are not sure. I'm afraid I'm not familiar with Ionic grow nutes......perhaps someone else is?

Three..... your water. What happened to ppm 120? is that after the Britta? You say it's 300+ plain. Ouch. Thats some mean water. However, Loc Nar's point about not being realistic to RO or distilled a 40 gallon rez is a true one. So we'll have to figure out a compromise.....most likely back to your Britta with some CalMag which is exactly what Loc Nar said in the first place. Have I mentioned that I've never trusted that guy? :D

Lastly, your 40 gallon res. You say it holds just enough to fill the entire flood table and that you change it everry two weeks. But you don't top off in between. How much does the water level go down in that two weeks? In other words....are some plants NOT getting watered the way they should as the level goes down? Yes, you should be checking your ph daily and checking, adjusting ppms and topping off every few days as needed. That MAY be a part of your issue right there....just to throw some more stuff at youl. :D

@WeedHound - I'm using a Milwaukee with a TDS factor of 0.5. I'm assuming it measures in TDS, there is no documentation that came with it specifically saying it measures in TDS other than the "TDS Factor of 0.5."

About the 120PPM, that number I read off my local water treatment plants website. Now, to take into consideration I live in an older neighborhood built in the 50's and I'm assuming the plumbing infastructure around here is less than to be desired (thats my hypothesis anyways). So after I got my PPM pen home I I tested the water and it came up at 300PPM. I also tested brita filtered water and it also came up at 300PPM. When I did this test I did not let the water sit for a while at first. I then measured the water I was using for my seedlings and it was at 660PPM with 1/2 strength nutes, and my resv. was at 1030PPM. I then tried to nock down the PPM in my resv. by adding 7 gallons tap water and was only able to get it down to 900PPM due to the resv. being almost full to begin with. The brita filter seems to actually raise the PPM when I measure it right after filling the gallon jug however.

I've been doing a top off at the end of the first week between the two week cycles but the last week I didn't. I also didn't understand this whole PPM thing last week either =p My eye's have definately been opened thanks to your help and this wonderful website and I really really appreciate it. I think now I'm in a situation of trying to find the sweet spot in PPM's for the plants. About the CalMag though, how much do you think I should use in PPM?

Well there's two ways you can go here.......actually 3 I can think of. One would be to just use the water at 300 and skip the CalMag, second would be use the britta and the Cal Mag.

What exact number did your tds number show you in your res? It sounds as though your meter reads x 500 conversion......mine use x700 so your numbers shouldn't match mine anway.

There is no one sweet spot.....as your plants grow and change so will their needs. The only time I've ever kept the number the same is in later bloom when they are at max performance. Hydro really isn't made for the "set it and forget it" crowd although there are those that do it that way and can make it work. I'm just not one of them.

You are low on options.....the size of your rez; your tap water above 300......option three would be to change your e and f table to something like DWC or drip...another type of system that wouldn't require a 40 gal rez and THEN buy an RO machine. This is simply something to think about for the future.

Also with your ppms......start low and raise the number every few days; keeping a VERY CLOSE eye out for the signs of overnute that tell you to go no higher. You can read the symptoms for overnute in my Feeding Schedule.

also check your reps,

Well I WOULD use the Brita but after using the Brita, the PPM's actually go up about 15-20+ PPM's instead of down, so the Brita is actually putting more TDS's in the water than taking out. So, I think my only option is to go ahead with the just using tap water and maybe using the Ionic hard water formula and 1-2ml/gal of CalMag. I read the description of the Ionic hard water formula and it says it has lower amount of trace elements like calcium in it.

So, what I think I'm going to do right now, is with these clones and seedlings, I'm going to continue using the rest of the regular Ionic Grow/Bloom formula with straight tap water, and maybe take my resv. down to about [email protected] (300PPM tap, 200PPM Ionic Grow) for the clones right now.

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also check your reps,

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I'm not sure what you are asking me to check?

go to user CP and check for messages. I left you one.

Yes; i like your plan although it DOES surpprise me that the britta ADDED something to the total number.....kind of a hoot but I'm not in your position so you most likely are not too amused. I thought you mentioned something about a hard water formula, but in rereading I couldn't find it so honestly thought I imagined it, lol. Every little bit helps here. Go with it for now and consider RO and CalMAg down the road. Maybe WAY down the road but something to think about. That's when we hydro growers REALLY start feeling GODLIKE......controlling EVERY SINGLE aspect of our grow.

happy growing.

@WeedHound - Oh yes that is a very nice guide, much appreciated. Yea I really wish I could afford an RO filter at the moment but, I'm glad I invested in the PPM pen and CalMag. I am at least using distilled water from the bottle I bought at the grocery store today and going to water my seedlings with that starting at [email protected] 50/50 CalMag & Ionic Grow.

I lowered my amount of gallons I'm putting in my resv. right now to 30gal. I think I'm now sitting at [email protected] with tap and Ionic Grow only. So thats like. 195PPM for the Ionic Grow solution in my resv. atm. They got one watering in with this and they started getting kinda droopy, I'm going to maybe keep it like this for the next two days and just see what happens unless they do something crazy on me, in which I'll be back here freaking out again lol.

My seedlings are really starting to come up, the first set of leaves actually look kinda rough, I don't know if thats cause I was watering them the last couple days with [email protected] Ionic Grow/brita water or if its just the strain (AK-47...supposedly, I got them from someone else that told me they were AK-47 and I'm not actually totally positive they are or not). I can share some pictures later if you'd like. I think I may try even doing a grow log of the seedlings cause as I said, these clones really are just test material for me right now and I'm going to trash them as soon its time for the seedlings to go in my system and I've already got about 4 that have 3+ roots poking out of their rockwool cubes already (its only been 7 days)! I don't really like the idea of trashing these clones but I've really stunted their growth and yea, I may be able to get them to full growth and bloom but they also are mostly having 3 leave nodes on most of their leaves and I'm afraid there may have been some contamination in the hormones that were used for the clones. Lastly, I need more seeds anyways.

The last thing I'd like to make mention is some brown sedimentary looking stuff that I've had happen before but was in the bottom of my resv. when I drained it today (and its only been filled for 2 weeks). I was very suprised it was there after only two weeks, it seems to have taken much longer to occur in the past. I'll make another post and show some pictures of everything with how it stands right now.

So I was wrong really off on the whole two weeks thing....its actually been 4 weeks today. So this stuff is in the bottom of my resv. after one month. :wtf:

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Notice my lights are going the wrong way, that would go back to the comment I made about the tent I had having really horrible directions, or lack there of...infact there were no words, just one small sheet of paper probably 5x5 inchs with little lines on them. So my lights are going perpendicular to my e&f system but I figure I'm putting out so many lumins and I can drop my lights practically on top of my plants without too much concern for them causing heat problems. BUT! I'm not planning on leaving it that way either. My big rush to get at least one harvest in is due to summer. This room I have it in has no ventilation. I can only control the temp. in the room when its cold outside. So, when summertime rolls around I don't plan on growing till the fall again, so maybe you can see my need for trying to get this right once-and-for-all or at least on the right track so I can get some plants to full growth and budding that don't look like they could catch fire at a moment notice. Yea, as you can see I'm running a total dog and pony show here lol.