Al Qaida works for US intelligence

Al Qaida (or most other terrrorist group) exists where US intelligence dominates. Al Qaida in US when Bush needs excuse to activate Mid-east war. That is 911 attack. Al Qaida is everywhere in Iraq now to bomb innocent civilians when US occupies Iraq. Strange to say, under the Saddam regime, there was no Al Qaida. Al Qaida seems only exist where the regime being controlled by US. So we see no Al qaida in Syria and Iran. But they appears to attack ordinary people when the government either is controlled by US intelligence or supported by US intelligence. That's why you see Al Qaida attacks in US, in Afghanistan, in Pakistan, in Iraq (after it is occupied by US). Because where they are protected by the intelligence, worked as a whip to beat people. When government want money and power, they beat the people with this whip (Al Qaida terror attack) People feel hurt then give up their civil rights and money to the government. DOJ got the Patriot Act and Pentagon got budget and Mid-east war.

Take the anger you feel, multiply it by 10 and you will feel what a dusgruntal Marine feels like after being deployed to Iraq.
It amazes me how a country like America functions when 98.6% of people dont agree with the direction we are headed.

Of and FUCK THE VA!!!!!!
throwing poisonous pill after poisonous pill down the throats of people who thought they were doing something to help the cause.

In fact, Al queda is no terrorist group in my eyes. THey do not have billion dollar bombers to fight with and pay for by the us taxpayer money so they use home made bombs. Yeah it sucked having to see young girls get blown up by "terrorist" or freedom fighters, but I see where they are coming from.

I realized the error in my ways, hopefully America will do the same.

I appologize to the people of Iraq, even though I was very respectful of their customs when I was there, tried to get as many of them help as I could.
Shit, bough them soap and shampoo with the majority of my check.

People are people, everyone wants the same thing, a job, a family, some peace and quiet. We are a lot less different than we assume.

It just amazes me that we have control of Afghanistan, 90% of heroin comes there, and when Marines wanted to burn opium fields, higher ups said no.

Al Qaida is created by Pentagon and US Intelligence as a false flag target with which they squeeze money and power from people.

Quote, "Al Qaeda does not exist and never has
8/19/2004

The basic truth is that Al Qaeda does not exist and never has. Al Qaeda is a manufactured enemy who was created by the Bush Administration in order to have an excuse to wage a war for the control of the world's oil resources.

Did an American even hear the words "Al Qaeda" before 9-11? Or were we told that its alleged leader Osama Bin Laden has family who themselves have personal business relationships with George W. Bush's family and that both families had financially profited conside

Al Qaeda does not exist and never has - Pravda.Ru

"Al Qaeda" is actually "the base" - referring to the Database of Mujahideen fighters setup by the CIA to fight the Russian invasion of Afghanistan.

Robin Cook wrote about this in the Guardian shortly before his death:
Robin Cook: The struggle against terrorism cannot be won by military means | UK news | The Guardian

From the same article:
"Bin Laden was, though, a product of a monumental miscalculation by western security agencies. Throughout the 80s he was armed by the CIA and funded by the Saudis to wage jihad against the Russian occupation of Afghanistan. Al-Qaida, literally "the database", was originally the computer file of the thousands of mujahideen who were recruited and trained with help from the CIA to defeat the Russians. Inexplicably, and with disastrous consequences, it never appears to have occurred to Washington that once Russia was out of the way, Bin Laden's organisation would turn its attention to the west."

Just throwing in some facts - make of it what you will.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Delta9 UK

"Al Qaeda" is actually "the base" - referring to the Database of Mujahideen fighters setup by the CIA to fight the Russian invasion of Afghanistan.

Robin Cook wrote about this in the Guardian shortly before his death:
Robin Cook: The struggle against terrorism cannot be won by military means | UK news | The Guardian

From the same article:
"Bin Laden was, though, a product of a monumental miscalculation by western security agencies. Throughout the 80s he was armed by the CIA and funded by the Saudis to wage jihad against the Russian occupation of Afghanistan. Al-Qaida, literally "the database", was originally the computer file of the thousands of mujahideen who were recruited and trained with help from the CIA to defeat the Russians. Inexplicably, and with disastrous consequences, it never appears to have occurred to Washington that once Russia was out of the way, Bin Laden's organisation would turn its attention to the west."

Just throwing in some facts - make of it what you will.

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For something to be a "fact", it generally has to be regarded as true. Bin laden never worked for the CIA, and was never funded by them. This story is a myth.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Breukelen advocaat

For something to be a "fact", it generally has to be regarded as true. Bin laden never worked for the CIA, and was never funded by them. This story is a myth.

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How can you be sure? I think Robin Cook (as Secretary of State) had a higher security clearance than either of us ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Delta9 UK

How can you be sure? I think Robin Cook (as Secretary of State) had a higher security clearance than either of us ;)

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Using that logic, then you'd have to agree that anything George W. Bush, former president of the U.S., says has "higher security clearance" than Cook. :jointsmile:

Seriously, there's no evidence to support the claim that bin Laden was CIA trained and supported.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Breukelen advocaat

Using that logic, then you'd have to agree that anything George W. Bush, former president of the U.S., says has "higher clearance" than Cook. :jointsmile:

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LOL - you got me there BA :thumbsup:

The CIA did supply the moojies in Afghanistan though, without that support they wouldn't have been able to lure the Soviets in - which is exactly what they did. The Russians fell for the trap and had it handed to 'em - that I'm sure we can agree on.

Who else handed them those 'handy' Stinger missiles that started swatting down Soviet Hind Gunships and Hip transports?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Delta9 UK

LOL - you got me there BA :thumbsup:

The CIA did supply the moojies in Afghanistan though, without that support they wouldn't have been able to lure the Soviets in - which is exactly what they did. The Russians fell for the trap and had it handed to 'em - that I'm sure we can agree on.

Who else handed them those 'handy' Stinger missiles that started swatting down Soviet Hind Gunships and Hip transports?

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It was Jimmy Carter that first started supporting them ("moojies"). The Soviets were not military "invaders" in the general sense, they were invited in by the legitimately elected government of Afghanistan. The reforms put forth by the (Marxist) Democratic Republic of Afghanistan, in the 1980â??s, were disliked by Muslims. These included outlawing on beards on men, banning burqas on women, and mosques were off-limits. At least they got that right.

Not much doubt that CIA's fingerprints are all over Afghanistan and Pakistan. They have involved themselves in a lot of shady deals for decades.

well i have to say thatfrom where i sit and see things thru the fog, it seems to me that it wasnt carter or reagen or bush or clinton admins. but it goes back to just after WW2 when isreal and other mid east countrys were created. i do beleive that for decades we have been funding the ( pick one please: freedom fighters, terrorist, arab patriots, etc. etc.) but we fund them for our own interests. there is absolutly nothing at all wrong with hired help. but when that hired help is no longer useful or goes against what your ideas and beliefs are thats when you have to do something about them. think about this when russia was fighting in afghanastan they were fighting the "freedom fighters" now that we are fighting them we are fighting the "terrorists". same group of people just depends on wich side of the coin your lookin at.

the hero the patriot and the terrorist are all the same person it just depends on weather or not you agree with them. if me as an american was to fly a plane into a sky scraper in iraq (if there is one) id be a hero here, but to them i would be a terrorist.

Is it any wonder why so many have a strong negative bias against cannabis???:wtf:

Pure crap like this makes fools out of all who smoke, toke and ingest the weed.

Of all the medical value of MJ it is pretty much known that no matter how great the bud...cannabis cannot make a wise person out of a total idiot.

I don't ever recall seeing so much stupid in one place before.

Well ok...the DNC Convention.:D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kathaksung

Al Qaida (or most other terrrorist group) exists where US intelligence dominates. Al Qaida in US when Bush needs excuse to activate Mid-east war. That is 911 attack. Al Qaida is everywhere in Iraq now to bomb innocent civilians when US occupies Iraq. Strange to say, under the Saddam regime, there was no Al Qaida. Al Qaida seems only exist where the regime being controlled by US. So we see no Al qaida in Syria and Iran. But they appears to attack ordinary people when the government either is controlled by US intelligence or supported by US intelligence. That's why you see Al Qaida attacks in US, in Afghanistan, in Pakistan, in Iraq (after it is occupied by US). Because where they are protected by the intelligence, worked as a whip to beat people. When government want money and power, they beat the people with this whip (Al Qaida terror attack) People feel hurt then give up their civil rights and money to the government. DOJ got the Patriot Act and Pentagon got budget and Mid-east war.

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Al Qaeda is in fact a label created by the FBI under the CIA's advice, in order for any prosecution for 9/11 to be valid. Seemingly in US law a registered/associated entity is required to prosecute and organisation such as "Al Qaeda"

This was supposedly mainly because the entity had no legally identifyable name.. so they gave it one. And a name for people to associate terror with heh...

Perhaps you mean the terrorists we call Al Qaeda because the FBI make up organisational names to prosecute unorganised criminals, which perhaps, work for the government, cough do, cough halliburton..
heheheh


peace,
Denial

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Breukelen advocaat

For something to be a "fact", it generally has to be regarded as true. Bin laden never worked for the CIA, and was never funded by them. This story is a myth.

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Yes, but what isn't a myth is that George bush has been in business with Bin Laden for quite some time.

Also, what isn't a myth that George Bush Snr.'s company was closed down due to the fact that a court of law found it was funded by Nazi money. When they refused to close it the government liquidated it instead and this is how the bush million$ fortune began, from the liquidation lol, surprise!

If only more people stated facts instead of accusations, then we could be shocked about them, letting the truth speak its own story.

To summarise.. some facts arouse suspicion yes.. but assumptions without fact create outright paranoia!

Peace,
denial

There is some intelligence here in a lot of these post's, but there is a lot of stupidity as well......

Ok lets get one thing straight - US Goverment = Terorist Organisation

FACT: CIA rely on inteligence from terrorist organisations and terrorist cells in order to make their decision on which group they intend on attacking.

FACT: 9/11 was known through CIA inteligence as going to happen and that a terrorist cell was operating and preparing on US soil, but did nothing about it.

FACT: US Geverment used the 9/11 incident as a point to attack the Taliban, not Al Qaeda.

FACT: Al Qaeda was created by the US Goverment as a gorilla group (can't quite remember for which war)

FACT: US Goverment put Sadam in power.

I could keep going in what involvement the US Goverment had in the way some countrys have Hitler Regimes. You can garuntee that anyone the US goes against, at some point in the past they have put them in power.

Take a look at the Al Qaeda, they where created and funded by the US Goverment to fight the Russan occupancy and then turned on them once Russia left and paid for another side to fight Al Qaeda.

Now I'm not saying that the rest of the goverments in the world don't play there part in it, cause they do. But at the fore front of it all everytime is the US Goverment, Al Qaeda in my eyes is retribution against US Goverment for what they did to them but I don't condone what they do ether.

Now lets come away from the economics of war and look at the current financial crisis in the world, which country is at the fore front of the biggest financial crisis in this world. Non other than America and the US Goverment yet again did nothing about this and was warned in the early 90's that if they continued to allow the way finace is run over there that this would happen.

I'm a big firm belever in that the goverments of the world, all grew a back bone and said to the US Goverment enough is enough. But guess what they won't and you know whay that is, because they own most of the worlds goverment in one way or another.

Now I have nothing against the American people, or America itself. But I don't like the fact that if the US Goverment shout jump, everyone else asks how high. What has to happen before people realise the shit they cause and stopped it.

Interference in other countries politics was always going to come back to bite the west in the arse.

Stupid monkey says as stupid monkey hears....

Maybe inbred stupidity runs in the family of POHMs?

Dunno...maybe change your meds?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CanGro

There is some intelligence here in a lot of these post's, but there is a lot of stupidity as well......Ok lets get one thing straight - US Goverment = Terorist Organisation
FACT: Al Qaeda was created by the US Goverment as a gorilla group (can't quite remember for which war)

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It was a war against those red, banana-stealing orangutans!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Breukelen advocaat

It was a war against those red, banana-stealing orangutans!

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Typical yank that hides behind hysteria and doesn't see the truth, learn right history for once and not what you see on tv.

I hope that Obama does what he promises and show himself to be a true leader and not hide be hind congress and war.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by psychocat

Interference in other countries politics was always going to come back to bite the west in the arse.

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Correct, we rebuke what we create.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CanGro

There is some intelligence here in a lot of these post's, but there is a lot of stupidity as well......Ok lets get one thing straight - US Goverment = Terorist Organisation
FACT: Al Qaeda was created by the US Goverment as a gorilla group (can't quite remember for which war)

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by CanGro

Typical yank that hides behind hysteria and doesn't see the truth, learn right history for once and not what you see on tv.

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:jointsmile::D:thumbsup:;)

Keep 'em coming, you're doing great. Gorillas are our friends, lol.

The Al-Qa'aeda aren't nearly as dangerous as the U.S. government...who has bigger bombs, more money, slicker rhetoric, and who's killed more people? I await the volley of shouts about how the Al-Qa'aeda are monsters who blow up innocents...just how guilty do you think your average two-year-old blown to bits by the U.S. Marines is?

I see it as two rival factions, nothing more. Both are brutal and commit unspeakable acts, and both have some legitimate grievances as well as a lot of bullshit they need to let go.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by overgrowthegovt

The Al-Qa'aeda aren't nearly as dangerous as the U.S. government...who has bigger bombs, more money, slicker rhetoric, and who's killed more people? I await the volley of shouts about how the Al-Qa'aeda are monsters who blow up innocents...just how guilty do you think your average two-year-old blown to bits by the U.S. Marines is?

I see it as two rival factions, nothing more. Both are brutal and commit unspeakable acts, and both have some legitimate grievances as well as a lot of bullshit they need to let go.

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Typical relativism is not applicable in the case of Islamofascism, for many reasons.

For instance, if a child is killed by U.S. military, it's usually an accident and those responsible consider it a tragedy. If it is suspected to be a deliberate act, the suspects will be court marshalled and tried. The Islamic terrorists not only kill anybody they want, they actually recruit and use children to perform jihad - which is about the most cowardly act an adult can commit for a cause.

Kidnapping innocent people, and beheading them, is another favorite of their's.

The belief system of Islam is insane, and as dangerous, sick and degenerate Christianity is, it's not nearly as deadly and backwards in this day and age as Islam.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Breukelen advocaat

The belief system of Islam is insane, and as dangerous, sick and degenerate Christianity is, it's not nearly as deadly and backwards in this day and age as Islam.

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Relgion is the route of all evil, storys made up by man to control man.

Wait most war has the same path as above..............

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Breukelen advocaat

Typical relativism is not applicable in the case of Islamofascism, for many reasons.

For instance, if a child is killed by U.S. military, it's usually an accident and those responsible consider it a tragedy. If it is suspected to be a deliberate act, the suspects will be court marshalled and tried. The Islamic terrorists not only kill anybody they want, they actually recruit and use children to perform jihad - which is about the most cowardly act an adult can commit for a cause.

Kidnapping innocent people, and beheading them, is another favorite of their's.

The belief system of Islam is insane, and as dangerous, sick and degenerate Christianity is, it's not nearly as deadly and backwards in this day and age as Islam.

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If the truth be told then they are more likely to be considered as collateral damage and acceptable losses.. ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CanGro

Relgion is the route of all evil, storys made up by man to control man.

Wait most war has the same path as above..............

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I'm more inclined to go with greed , religion is simply a tool used by those who seek power , just like politics.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Breukelen advocaat

Typical relativism is not applicable in the case of Islamofascism, for many reasons.

For instance, if a child is killed by U.S. military, it's usually an accident and those responsible consider it a tragedy. If it is suspected to be a deliberate act, the suspects will be court marshalled and tried. The Islamic terrorists not only kill anybody they want, they actually recruit and use children to perform jihad - which is about the most cowardly act an adult can commit for a cause.

Kidnapping innocent people, and beheading them, is another favorite of their's.

The belief system of Islam is insane, and as dangerous, sick and degenerate Christianity is, it's not nearly as deadly and backwards in this day and age as Islam.

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Psychocat has a point...you're right about how it's probably usually an accident, and it may even be viewed as a tragedy, but not ENOUGH of a tragedy. The children seem to just get shrugged off as collateral damage. And regardless of whether or not the killing is intentional, the point is that far too many innocent people die because of the fighting. Just how many of the Muslims who die do you think are bloodthirsty terrorists, and how many do you think are just people wanting to living a quiet life with their family? It's probably a pretty unbalanced ratio.

I agree with you that, with the present arrangement, Islam is the more irrational faith (by a hair). But let's say it was the other way around, that the Muslims kept Christian lands in a vice grip and have for the last 60 or so years? You'd see some Christian terrorist organizations, that's for sure, striking the foreign oppressors in the name of God.

When a bomb is dropped, or a missile is launched at targets, all deaths are intentional. Bombs and missiles do just what they were created to do..kill. Labeling the killing of children and innocent civilians something other than murder, is just a way to make it seem like an accident, or "collateral damage", is just part of the game. Anyway you look at it, it boils down to murder, and nothing more. Wars do nothing but breed hate and lead to other problems down the road.

I am amazed at how people look at the world today, truly amazed. Somebody always finds some kind of excuse to justify the murder, raping and pillaging of another country, state, home, and person. These are people who have just as much right to live than you or I do, no matter what they believe. That's the gift of being free. Now when your thoughts turn into actions that cause another one loss or hurt, then you should be held accountable for your actions.

This whole preemptive war idea is just mind blowing. I mean I could have the same mentality and just attack anyone in public who I see as a threat to my well being. Does that sound like a good idea? Of course it don't, because it is insane to think that way. If I were deliberately attacked then that is a different story. Even if I was attacked by someone, I sure wouldn't go after his neighbor for it. I would handle it with the same man, or woman who attacked me.

Anyway, back on the subject of the thread. It is true the intermingling by the US in other countries has bred a lot of hate towards the US. The US is not innocent and has it's hands in a lot of dirty laundry. When a country is led by people who live in a life of blackmail, greed, and lies, how do you think that country is going to be ran?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by overgrowthegovt

Psychocat has a point...you're right about how it's probably usually an accident, and it may even be viewed as a tragedy, but not ENOUGH of a tragedy. The children seem to just get shrugged off as collateral damage. And regardless of whether or not the killing is intentional, the point is that far too many innocent people die because of the fighting. Just how many of the Muslims who die do you think are bloodthirsty terrorists, and how many do you think are just people wanting to living a quiet life with their family? It's probably a pretty unbalanced ratio.

I agree with you that, with the present arrangement, Islam is the more irrational faith (by a hair). But let's say it was the other way around, that the Muslims kept Christian lands in a vice grip and have for the last 60 or so years? You'd see some Christian terrorist organizations, that's for sure, striking the foreign oppressors in the name of God.

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Deliberately attacking from where there are children and non-combatants placed, knowing full well that their enemy will look like murderers when they retaliate, is another common earmark of Islamic warfare. War is hell, but those who wage it in this fashion are beyond despicable.

How much more "irrational" Islam is compared to Christianity isn't the central issue - it's their actions that people notice. What is boils down to is why this little strip of sand in the desert, called Gaza, has to threaten the peace and well-being of the entire world. If it wasn't that, would it be something similar? If a civiliztion does not move forward, it goes backwards - and trys to take everyone else with it.

Despite, or because of, the Iraq war, the extremist rhetoric and terrorist actions seem to be less pronounced lately. Let's hope this is a signal of better days to come, but it's hard to say. There's some intelligent ex-Muslims out there who are speaking up, but not enough at this point.

You're allowing yourself to be sidelined by tags,Islam, Christian, it's all just bullshit.
There is no reason for the wests attempts to control the politics and policies of other countries, the simple fact is that it is never in the best interests of the country involved.
The west is guilty of some of the dirtiest games ever played and thier attempts to place puppet goverments , the continued double standards, the disregard for anything short of complete dominance and simple greed have created the modern day "terrorist".
It's easy to label them as religious fanatics and show video of a few nutters but the truth goes so much deeper than that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by psychocat

You're allowing yourself to be sidelined by tags,Islam, Christian, it's all just bullshit.
There is no reason for the wests attempts to control the politics and policies of other countries, the simple fact is that it is never in the best interests of the country involved.
The west is guilty of some of the dirtiest games ever played and thier attempts to place puppet goverments , the continued double standards, the disregard for anything short of complete dominance and simple greed have created the modern day "terrorist".
It's easy to label them as religious fanatics and show video of a few nutters but the truth goes so much deeper than that.

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I totaly agree with you, though most people seem to forget about history and go on whats going on the world now.

War on Iraq is a prime example of pupet goverment - Sadam was put into place to protect the oil fileds, this is the only reason we went to war against him - WMD's where never found.

Al Qaida is only heard after 911. It is created to take the responsibility of 911. Before 911, Al Qaida was only a data base in internet to represent Mujahideen. Why created a new term? Because everybody knows that Mujahideen was supported and trained by CIA. To prevent people to link 911 to US intelligence they created a fictional Al Qaida.

Quote, "A norwegian professor believes al-Qaida is a Pentagon-fiction:

Feilmelding

Al Qaida exists where US intelligence dominate. Al Qaida in US when Bush need excuse to activate Mid-east war. That is 911 attack. Al Qaida is everywhere in Iraq now to bomb innocent civilians when US occupies Iraq. Strange to say, under the Saddam regime, there is no Al Qaida. Al Qaida seems only exist where the regime being controlled by US. So we see no Al qaida in Syria and Iran. No wonder Assad doubt it:

Syrias president questions the existence of al-Qaida:

May 26, 2003
«Syria Denies Existence of Al Qaeda»

«KUWAIT CITY (Talon News) -- Syrian President Bashar Assad revealed in a newspaper interview on Sunday that he does not believe there is a terrorist group called al Qaeda, the organization widely believed to be the perpetrators of the hijackings on September 11, 2001 as well as the recent attacks in Saudi Arabia and Morocco.»

«"Is there really an entity called al Qaeda? It was in Afghanistan, but is it there anymore?" Assad asked.»

«Assad speculated about the existence of al Qaeda and its notorious leader Usama bin Laden in a Kuwaiti newspaper called Al-Anba. »

«Nevertheless, questioning the existence of the al Qaeda terrorist network is very popular in Arab countries. Many people in these countries believe that the United States has hyperbolized the danger of al Qaeda as a means for portraying Muslims as violent and dangerous.»

GOPUSA -- File Not Found

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Breukelen advocaat

Deliberately attacking from where there are children and non-combatants placed, knowing full well that their enemy will look like murderers when they retaliate, is another common earmark of Islamic warfare. War is hell, but those who wage it in this fashion are beyond despicable.

How much more "irrational" Islam is compared to Christianity isn't the central issue - it's their actions that people notice. What is boils down to is why this little strip of sand in the desert, called Gaza, has to threaten the peace and well-being of the entire world. If it wasn't that, would it be something similar? If a civiliztion does not move forward, it goes backwards - and trys to take everyone else with it.

Despite, or because of, the Iraq war, the extremist rhetoric and terrorist actions seem to be less pronounced lately. Let's hope this is a signal of better days to come, but it's hard to say. There's some intelligent ex-Muslims out there who are speaking up, but not enough at this point.

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You didn't acknowledge the key point I made...that a reversal of the status quo would most likely result in Christian terrorism. The U.S. does not engage in guerilla-level terrorism because it does not need to, sucking as hungrily as it does at the teat of world power. Instead, its government strong-arms any divergent nation. The terrorists are no more amoral than Congress--they're both deadly groups of self-servers. Actually, what the terrorists want is freedom from Western/Christian paternalistic handling of their affairs, and all Congress wants is, as Tony Soprano would say, "motherfucking, cocksucking money." The former strikes me as a touch more admirable goal.

ok again i will say this

the difference between a patriot and a terrorist is simpley POINT OF VEIW.

dont you think that when Sherman made his march to the sea, burning Atlanta on the way he was labeled a terrorist by the people living in the south?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by overgrowthegovt

..... what the terrorists want is freedom from Western/Christian paternalistic handling of their affairs, and all Congress wants is, as Tony Soprano would say, "motherfucking, cocksucking money." The former strikes me as a touch more admirable goal.

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as is usually the case, you seem to miss the point entirely. when you couch a group's aims in the most extreme terms, any goal can be made to seem honorable or evil. these disparate groups are really after the same thing - POWER. the ends being equal, it is the means by which we should judge which is the more admirable cause. each side is fighting to gain control over a wider swath of the population, one through the use of economic and political power and the other by the indiscriminate use of explosives. now tell us again how you can see any cause to admire a group that advocates strapping on an explosive vest and wandering into a crowded marketplace.

the west may have a grand love affair with the underdog, but that doesn't make the cowardly actions of the little guy any more admirable. can you honestly say that hiding behind children and women's skirts while lobbing bombs at noncombatants is any more honorable than the horrors of collateral damage?

"your deeds show your character".......StinkyAttic.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by overgrowthegovt

Actually, what the terrorists want is freedom from Western/Christian paternalistic handling of their affairs, and all Congress wants is, as Tony Soprano would say, "motherfucking, cocksucking money." The former strikes me as a touch more admirable goal.

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I wouldn't be so quick to think that I know what Islamofascist terrorists really want.

Fuck "Tony Soprano". Organized criminals are sociopathic, degenerate subhumans - but not even close to being the lowlife scum as Islamofascists are.

How long did the affleunt west believe it could manipulate the politics of other countries before the whole shit pile blew up in thier faces ?
Dirty games using underhand tactics lead to explosive situations.

It all comes down to greed and the hunger for power.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by psychocat

How long did the affluent west believe it could manipulate the politics of other countries before the whole shit pile blew up in their faces ?
Dirty games using underhand tactics lead to explosive situations.

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so manipulation warrants murder? the return on investing billions in building infrastructures around the world and actually having the audacity to expect a return on that investment is suicide bombers and decapitations?

for that matter, how are we assessing affluence? are we taking into account the fortunes in oil revenues flooding into so many of these countries? fortunes squandered on disproportionately large militaries and luxuries for the few while the masses are kept in ignorance.

and just how far back are we going with this? are we counting europe's colonial period, where those nations spread disease and war around the globe? are we taking into account the centuries of aggression surrounding most every civilization, next to which our present sins seem downright peaceful? or are we just blaming those evil americans today, for attempting to spread their ideology around the world through economic leverage and political maneuvering?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by delusionsofNORMALity

so manipulation warrants murder

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The support of Pinochet caused thousands of deaths and yet you forget it was US "manipulation" that allowed him to sieze power
In the US you have the right to shoot invaders of your home. isn't that something the inhabitants of other countries should also have a right to ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by delusionsofNORMALity

the return on investing billions in building infrastructures around the world and actually having the audacity to expect a return on that investment is suicide bombers and decapitations?

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Investing in US companies to rebuild what they destroyed.
Isn't that a bit like me knocking down my neighbours house for no good reason then offering to rebuild it for him, as long as he pays of course. :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by delusionsofNORMALity

for that matter, how are we assessing affluence? are we taking into account the fortunes in oil revenues flooding into so many of these countries? fortunes squandered on disproportionately large militaries and luxuries for the few while the masses are kept in ignorance.

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The attempts to control the fortunes of countries outside our own are what allow the corrupt regimes to continue to thrive.
What has it to do with us how another man spends his money ?
Is our society any different when the majority serve an elite minority.
Do you truly believe that the wests idea of democracy is any less corrupt than those you rail against.

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Originally Posted by delusionsofNORMALity

and just how far back are we going with this? are we counting europe's colonial period, where those nations spread disease and war around the globe? are we taking into account the centuries of aggression surrounding most every civilization, next to which our present sins seem downright peaceful? or are we just blaming those evil americans today, for attempting to spread their ideology around the world through economic leverage and political maneuvering?

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Since America and Britain helped to create so many puppet goverments it falls to them to carry the can for the consequences of thier actions.
Also , I don't know if you realise but the question of the OP directly adresses the issue of the US and the existence of Al Quiada.

No country has the right to impose it's will upon another.

As for history and conflict , it just goes to show how stupid the human race really is

Al Qaeda is More of a U.S. Propaganda Campaign than a Real Organization
12/24/08
Former British Foreign Secretary Robin Cook wrote:

Al-Qaida, literally "the database", was originally the computer file of the thousands of mujahideen who were recruited and trained with help from the CIA to defeat the Russians.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2005/ju...7.development:

Former National Security Adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski told the Senate that the war on terror is "a mythical historical narrative"
www.senate.gov - This page cannot be found..

And see this Los Angeles Times Article, reviewing a BBC documentary entitled "The Power of Nightmares" <http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/video1037.htm>, which shows that the threat from Al Qaeda has been vastly overblown (and see this article <http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1207-26.htm> on the people within the U.S. who are behind the hype).
Is Al Qaeda Just a Bush Boogeyman?

Not only has the U.S. government hyped Al Qaeda, but it has issued numerous fake terror alerts <http://georgewashington.blogspot.com/2007/02/everyone-knows-bush-has-issued-fake.html> to scare people.

George Washington's Blog: Al Qaeda is More of a U.S. Propaganda Campaign than a Real Organization