not your ordinary first grow

what's good everybody. i've recently started a grow with some bag seed. it's just some average 'corn...not sure about the strain etc. i'm doing this on no budget and basically just for fun.

i say again, i'm trying to spend the least money possible!

there is several reasons for this...

1. i don't have a bunch of money to blow on this, again this is just for fun.

2. let's just say someone i share a residence with someone who wouldn't like a visit from the field officer

3. i live in a small one bedroom apt.

4. i just want to do it with a minimalist approach. when the time and place are right so will my set-up be.

i would appreciate any help. i've read a bunch of tutorials and watched a lot of videos.

i started a few batches just by germinating them and putting them in plastic cups (around 12 oz. which i cut holes in for drainage) with some cannibalized, what i'm assuming was potting soil. i've lost a batch of five and 4 out of 5 on my second batch. the stems went limp just above the soil. the plant preceded to wilt. the same thing has happened to all of them.

i made a trip to wal-mart last night and picked up a lights of america 24" fluorescent "grow light". it operates at 17W, 2700k red spectrum putting out 1093 lumens. from what i've read the red or warm spectrum was better suited for flowering as opposed to vegetative growth.

grow light $9.96
potting soild $2.50
pots $4.80
_____
total $17.26


i've noticed that a lot of the videos tell you what not to do but don't show you how to troubleshoot the symptoms of problems that one might encounter during this little hobby of ours.

i'm germinating a new batch of seeds for use with the new pots and soil and such.

how far do i want the seeds to germinate? i mean i have a rough idea but i'm a novice at best in all of this. when they are ready to be planted should i just use a finger to push a hole in the soil put the seed in and cover? and just plop it in there root side down?

i'm also gonna be adding a fan here once things get started.

once again i'm doing this for fun. i understand that a proper set-up is required for desired/best results. i also understand that my "set-up", if you want to call it that is not and will never be capable of producing the best results. i'm just trying to see what i can do with less than $20.

i'll keep this updated to the best of my ability. i appreciate any and all help. i welcome all new knowledge. thanks in advance.

-shake

** i'll edit with some pics when i get back from work **

IMO you'll need to invest in at least 3-5 more lights of similar power. Or purchase one of the 150w envirolites (£20-30). I just ordered one myself, that plus my 70w hps should give me a decent yeild from a couple of Lowryder 2s...well I certainly hope it will.

Oscar Mike

i have found some cheap MH and HPS lights online and a really cheap MH/HPS combo light. i just don't have the space for that right now. i will have to look into something similar to what you recommended. i don't really have a "grow room". i'm just kinda winging this. it's not that i don't take the cultivation of miss mary seriously, i just kinda decided to do this on the spur of the moment just for the hell of it. when i move in the next 6 months i'll have a dedicated proper area/setup. i appreciate the advice and will look into it.

my buddy is about to do a computer case grow with some lowryder hybrids. i'll probably help him out. that should be fun!

-shake

edit: i also just found an LED setup that will cover 15 sq ft. for $140 US. it says it uses 45 watts and puts out the equivalent of a 250 HPS.

ok. i've got the germinated seeds in the pots. 3 of them have broken the top of the soil. i've got some backup seeds germinating just incase. i guess you have to have 50 posts or whatnot to post pics so as soon as i have reached that number i guess i'll post some pics to get some feedback on etc. until then...

-shake

Shake, Don't bother with the LEDs they just aren't there yet. You really don't have enough light to get them much pass breaking the soil. You can get some CLF's pretty cheap these days, Ralph's has them buy one get one free and I believe they are about $1 a piece they have both 6500K 23 watts and 2700K Walmart also has them for a little more. If you are only going to use a single spectrum the 6500K will do better then the 2700k. I'd say you could probably get a decent little micro grow for around $100-$200 not including cost of seeds but with only what you have got already going I don't think you'll be getting much in the way of results.

i appreciate it lunarose. i'll look into some of those CFL's. i've got a big box that my surround sound came in that i think i'm gonna setup. i'm gonna measure it and put up the info so maybe i can get some input as to how may lights i need. thanks again.

-shake

edit: the box is 27 1/4" x 20" x 17 1/2" (HxWxL). i can cover the inside with mylar or something else to help with the light. how much light/how many CFL's would one recommend?

Shake, You may need to get a fan even though you are using CFLs my grow space is 24"L x20"w x63"h with a single shelf I am using 6 of 6500K and two 2700K CFLs and without the fan it will get as high as 100 in there even with CFLs.

the box has two holes (handles) but they are both about a quarter way down. i was gonna mount two fans there, but i don't know how much good that would do for the bottom. i'll have to expierment i guess. i was thinking of going with 4 CFL's. i'm gonna start doing some damage tomorrow so i'll get some pics up.

-shake

okay. i've completed (to what extent i can) the grow box i decided to make. the measurements are 27 1/4" x 20" x 17 1/2" (HxWxL).

i currently have the 24" "grow light" running across the top of the box where the hand holes are. i was thinking about putting fans in the hand holes. i don't know how exactly that would work. maybe i should run a duct to the bottom. i guess i'll have to play with it. any ideas?

i've used some of the styrofoam that came with my surround sound to get the pots close to the light. i can hold my hand on top of the plants with no problem. should i get the plants a little closer?

i don't have a thermometer/hydrometer at the moment. that and the fans will be the next step. along with some new lights. i was thinking of going with 4 CFL's maybe? sound like enough?

i'll also be adding a couple of latches and seals of some kind to keep the light in. i was also gonna add another small fan inside to help simulate wind and strengthen the stalks.

that's about all for now. i'm sure there's more i'm forgetting.

i welcome all suggestions. should i consider LST?

well time to forget some more! i have some pics but am not quite sure how to put them up. also do i or do i not have to have 50 posts first? i read that in one of the forums. thanks agian.

-shake

ok. so this morning i got as far as i could with what materials i had on hand. i'm gonna try to get some pics up on here for some feedback/advice. here goes nothing.

pic 1 - miracle grow. any good? it's 24-8-16. i just picked it up from walmart.

pic 2 - only light i have so far. The correct model # is 7020GL and the color temperature of this lamp is 7800K .Lumen output is 680 lumens. (info given to me by the company's rep. although it doesn't match what was on the package. or other websites. so i don't know quite about this.)

like i said i'm seeking some advice about using CFL's. how many?

pic 3 - potting soil. .10-.08-.06.

pic 4- little 4" pots. x5

pic 5 - box in original state

more pics to follow.

-shake

pic 1 - side. the other side has the exact handle in the exact place opposite side.

pic 2 - front after being altered.

pic 3 - front with "door" swung open.

pic 4 - foiled out!!! i got my hands on a box of foil sheets from a local restaurant and used that because it was free. i hand taped the back of all those sheets.

pic 5 - the handle, inside out. and the corners that i put strips in to try to get rid of right angles.

more pics coming...

-shake

pic 1 - light across the top. i plan on getting those CFL's so i just have this stuck in there now.

pic 2 - 5 (hopefully) little girls. this is just some bag popcorn.

pic 3 - one of the little ones. all are around this size.

pic 4 - a top view with flash.

pic 5 - in the box.

last set of pics up next.

-shake

pic 1 - i used the styrofoam that the surround sound came in to make shelving.

pic 2 - another look inside box.

pic 3 - not to inconspicuous yet. it's still a work in progress.

pic 4 - another angle. she's still got some work to go.

like i said i'm looking for some lighting help. and help with the fans would be cool too. i still need to add the therm/hyd. as well. and a timer. not too bad with about $17.00 invested so far.

let me know what you think.

-shake

Shake, You'll definitely will need to list. Be careful with the miracle grow use only 1/4-1/2 strength only and you should not even need any nutes at least until after you transplant them. The lights should be fine for now. You could probably get away with an inexpensive table top fan and direct it towards the handle openning it just all depends on how warm it gets. Also becareful with those pots its easy to overwater with those bottom pans. Oh and you want a piece of plastic or something under the box so you don't screw up the carpet.

EEEEKKKK.......headshake, this box is a fire hazard.

also, any enclosed growspace needs fresh air. cool fresh air in, hot stale air out.
Please find something other than a box to grow in......i would hate see on the news how a small apartment fire led to a 'grow op' as the news would probably call it. It also looks horrible for the rest of the growers that are growing the safe way.

luna, good lookin out. how often should i water? just keep the soil damp? i put a trashbag on the bottom of the box. but i will definitely will put something down.

keeko, this was more just a spur of the moment, see what i can do with what i have on hand/spend $20 at walmart, whim. a mock up if you will. i'm at the apt. 24/7. i truly appreciate the concern. i plan on putting together something better. i'm about to be going out of town for about a month so the plants will be relocating to a good home.

-shake

hi headshake, thought i'd stop by and see if i could offer anything
useful.

here's a link i think you should read
http://boards.cannabis.com/grow-log/...-grow-log.html

and stop by my garden for tips on CFL's, not that i'm an authority or anything,
just that i use CFL's and have done so exclusively for almost a year now so,
i'm not a noob either.

anyway, you're in the right place if you want to learn to grow weed, now
it's up to you to decide how badly you want to learn to be self-sufficient.

personally, i haven't had to buy weed in almost a year, and what i'm growing
is far better than what i used to buy, thanks in large part to the help i've gotten
from experienced growers here (and i'm still just growing bagbeans)

thanks bozo. ultimately being 100% self-sufficient would be the goal. when i get back from out of town i plan on working on a proper setup. (i've got some ideas and will be working on the design while gone.) i'll definately check out the log. and i've checked out your grow log as well. good info there. i just wanted a little real world experience under my belt before investing as well. a lot has to do with me moving when my current lease is up. 4 more months on that. so in the mean time i'll be reading my ass off (probably asking a lot of questions) and working on my applicable skills on this end.

i appreciate all the help, advice and answers from the forums. it's good to exchange ideas with like minded people. and knowledge is always golden.

thanks again!

-shake

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by headshake

thanks bozo. ultimately being 100% self-sufficient would be the goal. when i get back from out of town i plan on working on a proper setup. (i've got some ideas and will be working on the design while gone.) i'll definately check out the log. and i've checked out your grow log as well. good info there. i just wanted a little real world experience under my belt before investing as well. a lot has to do with me moving when my current lease is up. 4 more months on that. so in the mean time i'll be reading my ass off (probably asking a lot of questions) and working on my applicable skills on this end.

i appreciate all the help, advice and answers from the forums. it's good to exchange ideas with like minded people. and knowledge is always golden.

thanks again!

-shake

---

it's my pleasure man, a lot of folks took time to help me not that long ago, lol

if you find the time to go through my imaginary garden you will follow my
struggle to learn how to, reliably, grow the weed i could no longer afford.

watch as i attempt to apply barely understood principles of hydroponics,
all on a non-existent budget.

lol, anyway, i haven't run out of head candy for some time now

(thank you all that came here before me)

bozo, what branch of the service were you in? if you don't mind me asking. i was in the marine corps for five years. were you disabled during a time of war? sorry for the questions. i just respect those that came before me.

-shake

i think i just hijacked my own thread...lol!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by headshake

bozo, what branch of the service were you in? if you don't mind me asking. i was in the marine corps for five years. were you disabled during a time of war? sorry for the questions. i just respect those that came before me.

-shake

i think i just hijacked my own thread...lol!

---

UASF, and no, i went in in '73 so i missed Viet Nam thank God.

disability is non-service connected

Semper Fi man, my uncle served on Iwo Jima in the corp

Quote:

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Originally Posted by justanotherbozo

UASF, and no, i went in in '73 so i missed Viet Nam thank God.

---

no doubt! UASF? i'm not sure what the abbreviation stands for? i see the Irish flag so it could be something i'm not familiar with or a typo. no disrespect!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by justanotherbozo

Semper Fi man, my uncle served on Iwo Jima in the corp

---

Semper Fi! luckily i missed combat too. got called up on 72 hour notice a couple of times and i was in okinawa japan Sept 11th happened and most of my unit got called to guam to be closer incase sh*t popped off. i stayed back in oki though and lucikly our rotation landed us back home before it hit the fan.

-shake

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by headshake

no doubt! UASF? i'm not sure what the abbreviation stands for? i see the Irish flag so it could be something i'm not familiar with or a typo. no disrespect!

---

you're gonna kick yourself, lol, United States Air Force (lol, shit, i'm kicking
myself, i just realized you didn't get it because of my typo, it's USAF)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by headshake

Semper Fi! luckily i missed combat too. got called up on 72 hour notice a couple of times and i was in okinawa japan Sept 11th happened and most of my unit got called to guam to be closer incase sh*t popped off. i stayed back in oki though and lucikly our rotation landed us back home before it hit the fan.

-shake

---

i'm glad you didn't see combat, my local hydro shop is run by 2 brothers,
the younger of which lost both his right arm and his right leg in Iraq to
an IED

thank God and John McCain we're winning over there now and we can
start bringing our troops home!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by justanotherbozo

you're gonna kick yourself, lol, United States Air Force (lol, shit, i'm kicking
myself, i just realized you didn't get it because of my typo, it's USAF)




i'm glad you didn't see combat, my local hydro shop is run by 2 brothers,
the younger of which lost both his right arm and his right leg in Iraq to
an IED

thank God and John McCain we're winning over there now and we can
start bringing our troops home!

---

i'm glad i didn't see combat as well. but i would have went willingly. you know how it goes better than most around here. lmao @ the typo. i was running through all kinds of acronyms.

sorry to hear about the younger brother. i lost several friends over there.

on a higher note. i've got some new pics. i'm yet to buy some CFL's. i probably will this weekend. along with some fans. i've got ~4 sq ft. you think 6 lights would be enough? and should i go with all 6500k or should i mix it up? 4/2 or something?

i forgot i had some more seeds germinating so i've added 3 more to the cab for a total of 8. the first set of 5 has started getting the second set of serrated leaves!

pic 1 - shows some yellowing at the tips of the first set of serrated leaves. any ideas? it is close to the light, but the light doesn't get hot. i can keep my hand on the bulb. i did water 2 days ago and mist a little diluted miracle grow on them.

pic 2 - the garden.

pic 3 - one of the plants. looks like an indica, but it's still early right?

-shake

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by headshake

i'm glad i didn't see combat as well. but i would have went willingly. you know how it goes better than most around here. lmao @ the typo. i was running through all kinds of acronyms.

sorry to hear about the younger brother. i lost several friends over there.

on a higher note. i've got some new pics. i'm yet to buy some CFL's. i probably will this weekend. along with some fans. i've got ~4 sq ft. you think 6 lights would be enough? and should i go with all 6500k or should i mix it up? 4/2 or something?

i forgot i had some more seeds germinating so i've added 3 more to the cab for a total of 8. the first set of 5 has started getting the second set of serrated leaves!

pic 1 - shows some yellowing at the tips of the first set of serrated leaves. any ideas? it is close to the light, but the light doesn't get hot. i can keep my hand on the bulb. i did water 2 days ago and mist a little diluted miracle grow on them.

pic 2 - the garden.

pic 3 - one of the plants. looks like an indica, but it's still early right?

-shake

---

stop feeding it man, those spots you speak of are probably nute burn.

your plants are very young, too young for nutes, also, you have them too
deep in those pots. you want about an inch between the dirt and the rim.
otherwise, air collects and stagnates at the base of the plants.

personally, i use plastic cups for pots and i use a soldering iron to make
the holes, heres a couple pics to illustrate my meaning. and i use these
cups for dirt also, not just hydro.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by justanotherbozo

stop feeding it man, those spots you speak of are probably nute burn.

your plants are very young, too young for nutes, also, you have them too
deep in those pots. you want about an inch between the dirt and the rim.
otherwise, air collects and stagnates at the base of the plants.

personally, i use plastic cups for pots and i use a soldering iron to make
the holes, heres a couple pics to illustrate my meaning. and i use these
cups for dirt also, not just hydro.

---

thanks bozo! so should i add more soil? that's funny about the soldering iron. i used mine to put holes in some cups too. on that hydro setup, i know you made it. it looks pretty basic (not an insult). is it ebb and flow? i want to build a little hydro setup myself. do you leave the nutes in the basin always or flood and then drain? got any schematics?

does it not matter about the lights? the more the better? mix the spectrum?

i've watched a ton of videos and am gaining tons from the forums. i'm just a hands on guy, ya know? thanks again.

-shake

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by headshake

thanks bozo! so should i add more soil? that's funny about the soldering iron. i used mine to put holes in some cups too. on that hydro setup, i know you made it. it looks pretty basic (not an insult). is it ebb and flow? i want to build a little hydro setup myself. do you leave the nutes in the basin always or flood and then drain? got any schematics?

does it not matter about the lights? the more the better? mix the spectrum?

i've watched a ton of videos and am gaining tons from the forums. i'm just a hands on guy, ya know? thanks again.

-shake

---

lol, look at my sig for links to my garden and my cloner for answers to
most of your questions.

and you're right, those pics were early in my evolution, proto type #2
to be exact so still pretty crude, everything i have is make-shift DIY
due to a very tight budget.

check it out and tell me what you think, we talk about lights too

i'll check it out bozo. i have been through it but i guess my brain is mush at the moment. i'll give it a good thorough read through. like i said, i like the DIY approach. i don't believe in paying for over-priced crap. it's much more rewarding to DIY. any a**hole can buy a setup and call himself an expert. but it's ingenuity that pays off!

-shake

plus i added soil to the tops of the 5 regular pots. i'll do the same once the others sprout and have grown enough. that's about all so far. maybe i'll make an excursion to a home improvement store today. if not, this weekend.

the cab is getting pretty full. and i still have some seeds germinating. damn. i need some lights. asap! yikes.


pic 1 - all of the little ones.

pic 2- a top view, and you can see the second set of serrated leaves.


-shake

edit: was trying to add a pic. didn't know you couldn't. please see below.

you can see the plants a little better without the flash.

pic 1 - -flash

-shake

edit: added a pic. damn i need some green! it's messin with my brain.

update: one of the four new germinated seeds that have been planted, the second of the first three. man i gotta get those lights!

-shake

what's up everybody? i've been busy for the past week or so and haven't had time to post. i've added a digital thermometer/hydrometer, two new light fixtures, new bulbs (3 6500K daylight and 1 2700K soft white), 2 120MM fans, and one 80MM fan. the 2 120MM fans are pc case fans and are rated at 72CFM. i'm not sure about the 80MM fan, it is for your car.

i currently have them arranged with the two 120MM fans on the sides (where the handles are) and the 80MM on top (blow-hole style). i have the two 120MM fans blowing out and the top one blowing in. i've tried them in the reverse as well.

i can't seem to keep the box cool. it stays in the high 80's. some of the plants look saggy, some don't. maybe it's just me. it's obviously my first grow. i've also tried adding a cup of ice to lower the temp. could it be the styrofoam in the bottom that the plants are sitting on? i'll post some pics after while. just trying to get some advice cooling this damn thing. any help would be greatly appreciated.

-shake

okay guys, here are some pics.

pic 1 - digital therm/hydrom.

pic 2 - timer

pic 3 - first fans used, still used one for a blow-hole

pic 4 - 12V AC to DC converter for fans

pic 5 - side fans, 120MM pc fans

-shake

pic 1 - bulbs x3. 6500K.

pic 2 - bulb x1. 2700K.

pic 3 - original side fans w/o blow-hole.

pic 4 - box as of right now.

pic 5 - top of box.

a few more to come.


-shake

pic 1 - inside box as of right now.

pic 2 - same.

pic 3 - with occupants.

pic 4 - occupants.

pic 5 - my forrest!


a few more to come.


-shake

pic 1 - welcome to the jungle baby!

pic 2 - another shot, see the droopy plants? too much heat?

pic 3 - it's a funny angle! any snatch fans?

pic 4 - and yet another one.

pic 5 - one more group pic.

ok, i lied. i've got a few more pics to follow. sorry, i've been busy and have been wanted to get this posted and possibly some help. thanks.

-shake

maybe these will help with a diagnosis. thanks again for all the help!

all pics will be individual plant pics.

-shake

sorry about some blurriness. my camera sucks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by keeko

EEEEKKKK.......headshake, this box is a fire hazard.

also, any enclosed growspace needs fresh air. cool fresh air in, hot stale air out.
Please find something other than a box to grow in......i would hate see on the news how a small apartment fire led to a 'grow op' as the news would probably call it. It also looks horrible for the rest of the growers that are growing the safe way.

---

While I'll agree it is not good 'practice' to grow in a cardboard box.. it is hardly a fire hazard when involving flourescents in actual use. I had 300 actual watts in CFL's setup in an array in a 2'x2'x3.5' box.

As long as you have adequate cooing I don't see a problem. While it's true that the ballast in a CFL bulb does get warm.. typically it does not get hot enough to start a fire and often times the the two filaments will burn out before the ballast get's hot enough to cause a fire. When this happens the ballast stops operating; ending heat production for that 1 bulb.

What is more likely to happen and something that should be carefully monitored is CFL glass breakage. Mercury is contained with CFL' and mercury will evaporate into the air. It is not good for either the plants nor is it good for you.

In regards to CFL's, cardboard boxes and fires... well you're just as likely to start a fire in one of these things below than you would in a cardboard box:

Arc Paper Lantern Floor Lamp : Target

IKEA | Lighting | Floor lamps | DUDERÃ?â?? | Floor lamp

IKEA | Lighting | Floor lamps | HÃ?â??RUP | Floor lamp

Now that's not to say that I don't agree that it would be better for you to grow in a non flamable environment for your plants it is actually the contrary, I do believe and recommend this; but it is to say it's not nearly as hazardous as people claim it is.

Just looking over your grow. Nice! I say when i first started my plants looked droppy Just like that. They where in 90+ degree hot stale air. And they looked just like yours. I say open that box as much as you can to keep circulation going. I have adequately put fans in my grow room seems to be helping alot. I would wait till the soil is bonedry to water. Also i laughed when i seen your CAR Fan. Because i bought the same one from Wal-greens for 10$ . Hope u wired it to a 12vDC charger and not a 120 Regular wall plug. Anyways good luck and keep it up. I have been growing CFL . You can check out my log. Its on my Signature
-Swisha

k i just seen your 12v dc chargers =D
gL

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by headshake

what's up everybody? i've been busy for the past week or so and haven't had time to post. i've added a digital thermometer/hydrometer, two new light fixtures, new bulbs (3 6500K daylight and 1 2700K soft white), 2 120MM fans, and one 80MM fan. the 2 120MM fans are pc case fans and are rated at 72CFM. i'm not sure about the 80MM fan, it is for your car.

---

To determine how much cooling you need.. take the cubic footage of your area and divide by 5 minutes.

so if you're growing in a 3x3x3 area that would be 27cu.ft.. to evacuate that in 5 minutes you would need a fan the blew about 5.5CFM. However I've never been a fan of the 5 minute rule. I like to use 1 minute for reference or faster if I can help it.

So in this case you would need 27CFM of unrestricted air flow. Computer fans do not have high velocity such as inline fans or squirrel cage fans, therefore I would recommend more powerful fans which it appears you have covered.

Unless you're running CO2, you cannot have too much exhaust.

Quote:

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i currently have them arranged with the two 120MM fans on the sides (where the handles are) and the 80MM on top (blow-hole style). i have the two 120MM fans blowing out and the top one blowing in. i've tried them in the reverse as well.

---

You want them all set to exhaust. You want to create several passive intakes very low in the box. Your passive intakes must be, at minimum, equal in size and number to the number of exhausts/exhaust holes you have. Furthermore you want to try, TRY, to have all your exhausts setup to the top of the grow area in a blow hole fashion.

This will draw cool air in from the bottom of your grow box.. allow it to travel upward with the rising hot air and back out the box.

The reason you want passive intake is that because unless the intake and exhaust are running equal amount of pressure (flowing the same rate of CFM) then all you're doing by putting an active system in is creating a restriction and turbulent air flow.. basically hot air that just swirls around, inside your grow environment.

So in summary set all your fans to exhaust, put them at the top of your grow box, create as many passive intakes low in the box as you have exhausts...

I have more advice I can give, but give that a go first.