Answers about CFL, HPS, How Much Light...

Although I'm still kind of a new poster, I keep seeing a lot of the same comments--many of which are answered an Dr. Khronik's excellent El Cheapo Guide to Lighting. But there are a few things I'd like to add in regard to watts, lumens, cfl, hps, and efficiency and how much light you need. Maybe this should be stickied?

Watts have nothing to do with light or growth. Watts measure how much power a light fixture uses to produce light. You can tell how efficient a light bulb is by looking at watts. A 23 watt CFL produces as much light as a 100 watt incandescent...even though the incandescent has more watts, it's useless. See what I mean?

What you care about is light...more specifically, light energy. That's what plants use during photosynthesis/growth. Light is measured in lumens. In my experience and reading, lumen amounts per sq. ft./sq. m. look like this

2000 lumens sq. ft./21500 lumens sq. m. = Absolute minimum for growth. You won't get much from this, especially after the plant has grown a bit. Not really enough to flower well.

3000 lumens sq. ft./32250 lumens sq. m. = Pretty Good growth. Enough light for the entire light cycle, although your yields may be lower.
4000 lumens sq. ft./43000 lumens sq. m. = Very good growth. Once you pass around 3500, growth rate and ability goes up fast.

Over 5000 lumens sq. ft./53750 lumens sq. m. = Optimal growth. Dense growth in all stages.

Keep in mind that using reflectors, using mylar or having flat white walls, and keeping your lights close to your plants keep you from wasting lumens. It's not just about having light, it's about getting the light to your plants. IMO, people ofter overbuy lights. This creates more light, but the light isn't always hitting the plants. And that creates more heat and ventilation issues, which causes stress problems.

That's why it's still impossible to tell anything about growth or yield based on just lumens. A guy that has an HPS that is too far away from plants that have no walls near them and no ventilation may get poorer results than a grower with CFLs that uses reflectors and has a couple of lights under the canopy in a well-ventilated spot.

HPS lights are often said to generate more heat than CFLs. That's not really true...it's just that they are more efficient at producing light, and there's a smaller surface area on the bulb itself for the resulting heat to dissipate. That means more ventilation. But the higher amount of lumens per watt means you use less power and get greater light penetration through your canopy. Still, I'm a believer that well used CFL's can give you great grows with less ventilation and heat issues. If you're in a small to very small area (less than 4 sq. ft./.25 sq. m.), I'd consider the advantages of CFLs in that way.

But HPS is more efficient. A typical 250 watt HPS bulb/unit will produce about 27,000 lumens. I've seen people use a 250w in a 3' x 3' room and get good results. That's 9 sq. ft. which = 3000 lumens a sq. ft. (Really, a 250w HPS is better in a smaller area.) to give you an idea of the difference in efficiency of CFL vs. HPS, think of this.

23w CFL = 1600 lumens = 69.6 lumens/watt
30w CFL = 2000 lumens = 66.7 lumens/watt
40w CFL = 2600 lumens = 66.3 lumens/watt

compared to

150w HPS = 14000 lumens = 93.3 lumens/watt
250w HPS = 28000 lumens = 112 lumens/watt
400w HPS = 50000 lumens = 125 lumens/watt
600w HPS = 90000 lumens = 150 lumens/watt

So you can see that HPS is more efficient than CFL...and as you get into bigger HPS bulbs, it becomes a lot more efficient. There's also fewer hassles with multiple cords and saved money on your energy bill. If you've got a big area and/or you can deal with the heat and ventilation, HPS is the way to go in flowering. Still, I'm a believer in small HPS lights and combo HPS/CFL grows...if you've got a 2' x 2' room, you can use a 150w HPS and 4 23w CFLs from Wal-Mart and get a terrific grow with very few heat issues.

Hope this helps some people. And, yes, I wrote it all. :)

Good post. Well said.....:thumbsup:

A very good post when it comes to comparing CFL to HID in terms of Lumens and such but, plants "see" light differently than human beings do. As a result, lumens, lux or foot-candles should not be used to measure light for plant growth since they are measures used for human visibility. More correct measures for plants are PAR watts, PPF PAR and YPF PAR, although each in itself does not tell the whole story. In addition to quantity of light, considerations of quality are important, since plants use energy in different parts of the spectrum for critical processes.
Plants are sensitive to a similar portion of the spectrum as is the human eye. This portion of the light spectrum is referred to as photo synthetically active radiation or PAR, namely about 400 to 700 nanometers in wavelength. Nevertheless, plant response within this region is very different from that of humans.
The human eye has a peak sensitivity in the yellow-green region, around 550 nanometers. This is the "optic yellow" color used for highly visible signs and objects. Plants, on the other hand, respond more effectively to red light and to blue light, the peak being in the red region at around 630 nanometers.
Red light provides the most efficient food for plants. However, a plant illuminated only with red or orange light will fail to develop sufficient bulk. Leafy growth (vegetative growth) and bulk also require blue light. Many other complex processes are triggered by light required from different regions of the spectrum. The correct portion of the spectrum varies from species to species. However, the quantity of light needed for plant growth and health can be measured, assuming that all portions of the spectrum are adequately covered. Light for plants cannot, however, be measured with the same standards used to measure light for humans.
First, how do we measure light quantity for humans? The obvious way is based on how bright the source appears and how "well" the eye sees under the light. Since the human eye is particularly sensitive to yellow light, more weight is given to the yellow region of the spectrum and the contributions from blue and red light are largely discounted. This is the basis for rating the total amount of light emitted by a source in lumens.
The light emitted from the source is then distributed over the area to be illuminated. The illumination is measured in "lux", a measurement of how many lumens falls on each square meter of surface. An illumination of 1000 lux implies that 1000 lumens are falling on each square meter of surface. Similarly, "foot-candles" is the term for the measure of how many lumens are falling on each square foot of surface.
Clearly, both lumens and lux (or foot-candles) refer specifically to human vision and not to the way plants see light.
How then should the rating for plant lighting be accomplished? There are two basic approaches to develop this rating: measuring energy or counting photons.
PAR Watts for Plants
Watts is an objective measure of energy being used or emitted by a lamp each second. Energy itself is measured in joules, and 1 joule per second is called a watt. A 100 watt incandescent bulb uses up 100 joules of electrical energy every second. How much light energy is it generating? About 6 joules per second or 6 watts, but the efficiency of the lamp is only 6%, a rather dismal number. The rest of the energy is dissipated mainly as heat. Modern discharge lamps like high pressure sodium (HPS) and metal halide convert (typically) 30% to 40% of the electrical energy into light. They are significantly more efficient than incandescent bulbs.
Since plants use energy between 400 and 700 nanometers and light in this region is called Photo synthetically Active Radiation or PAR, we could measure the total amount of energy emitted per second in this region and call it PAR watts. This is an objective measure in contrast to lumens which is a subjective measure since it is based on the response of the subjects (humans). A PAR watt directly indicates how much light energy is available for plants to use in photosynthesis.
The output of a 400 watt incandescent bulb is about 25 watts of light, a 400 watt metal halide bulb emits about 140 watts of light. If PAR is considered to correspond more or less to the visible region, then a 400 watt metal halide lamp provides about 140 watts of PAR. A 400 watt HPS lamps has less PAR, typically 120 to 128 watts, but because the light is yellow it is rated at higher lumens (for the human eye).
Since plant response does "spill out" beyond the 400 nanometer and 700 nanometer boundaries, some researchers refer to the 350 â?? 750 nanometer region as the PAR region. Using this expanded region will lead to mildly inflated PAR ratings compared to the more conservative approach in this discussion. However, the difference is small.
While HPS and incandescent lamps are fixed in their spectral output, metal halide lamps are available in a broad range of color temperatures and spectral outputs. With this in mind, the discriminating grower can choose a lamp that provides the best spectral output for his specific needs.

This is two examples of light spectrums: for 2 different light bulbs. The first one is a High Pressure Sodium bulb, the second one is a Metal Halide bulb.

Got a question for you light smart guys ^^

as of late ive been reading about how i should be using a 5700 light spectrum bulb for vegging and a 2700 for flowering ( think those numbers are accurate, if they arent they are atleast close). I use all cfls and i was curious as to if there is a way to tell exactly what light spectrum the bulbs putting out by looking at the bulb itself? I bought the parts for and setup a rubbermaid box grow a while ago and ive just gotten into flowering and id like to make sure i have the 2700's in there. I know i could just go out buy some of them and put them in but id rather not waste the money if i already made the mistake of using them for vegging. So...anyone got an anwser for me? ^^

Some manufacturers put the Kelvin temp info on the CFL bulb or package, but it seems like most don't. It's enough to drive a person nuts. Plus the confusing terms: "cool white" or "warm daylight". If you don't see the Kelvin temp number, you don't know for sure, otherwise, they all look alike to me....:stoned:

6500K=veg
2700K=flower

They do better with Floro tubes.

First, to growbe. Technically you may be right (although PAR watts don't account for differentials in energy to produce blue and red photons). But you're overcomplicating things for a grow light FAQ. If you've got lights in the correct end of the spectrum (blue light for veg growth; red light for flowering), lumen output is much, much easier to determine and almost as accurate.

The guys at Sunmaster--where you cut and pasted your info from, yes?--will give you all sorts of computations to discuss PAR watts and PPF PAR. But, realistically, the differences between that and lumen output if you're using the right bulb is fairly small...small enough so that doing the equation for PAR watts isn't worth it unless you're doing a grow over lots of square meters. And that's if you know how many PAR watts your bulb puts out; most people don't for a very good reason. Manufacturers usually don't list them. It's kind of a marketing ploy if you ask me.

Put it this way...a pretty typical 400w HPS puts out around 125 PAR watts. For top level growth, you need 135 PAR watts per sq. m.; 105 will go a good job; 75 will get you by, but you'll lose some yield. So your 400w HPS grow light will do a great job on .93 square m., a good job on 1.19 sq. m., and a mediocre job on 1.67 sq. m

But it's a lot easier to just look at the lumens...you get around 50,000 lumens from a 400w HPS. I said that 5000 lumens sq. ft./53750 a sq. m. gives you a top level grow, 4000 lumens sq. ft./43000 a sq. m. gives you a good grow, and 3000 lumens sq. ft./32250 a sq. m. gets you an okay grow with lower yields. If you use lumens instead of PAR, you get these numbers: .93 of a sq. m. for a great grow, 1.16 sq. m. for a good grow, and 1.55 sq. m. for a mediocre grow. Like I said, the difference in the calculations is small.

Still, you could argue that PAR is more exact...except very few bulb manufacturers list PAR watts for their bulbs. But almost all of them list lumens and color temp (kelvin).

So keep it simple. If you're going heavy into growth and have access to PAR watts...good for you. If you're buying your bulbs at Wal-Mart or a regular store or (my favorite) 1000bulbs.com...just go with the lumens and make sure your bulbs are in the right spectrum. To answer your question Gundari...some, but not all (or many) bulbs will list their spectrum. (Sometimes its listed like this--2700k or 2.7mk, which both stand for 2700 kelvin.) The best bet is to look at the box they came in. Barring that--lights for flowering are in the lower end of the visible spectrum. They'll look noticeably yellower or, as they say, "softer." Daylight bulbs--6500k is best--will be bright white. Hope this helps.

Figured id get an anwser that was along the lines of "your outta luck" Mine are kinda a soft white...atleast thats what i think they are but i dont really have anything to compare against. Suppose next time im at lowes or somewhere similar to that ill look and see if i can find anything anything in the 2700k area. Ty for the help.

Who cares where I got the info. the fact is that I have done lots of homework when it comes to lighting like you. Most peeps just look at lumens "hey isn't this light bright, man I have to ware sun glasses!" and off they go to the races. We all know, well maybe not, that like you said in your first post (Still, I'm a believer in small HPS lights and combo HPS/CFL grows), dual spectrum works best for the entire grow. If you can't find out the par watts, call any manufacturer and they will tell you after a few forwards-it's not hard, just takes some effort, and not just searching these boards where 90 percent of the answers are: mh for veg, hps for flower-and get the most lumens-not!. I use to grow mh during veg and hps during flower. I use to go by lumens only but could not understand why my grows did not get any better/bigger when I went with the fancy/overpriced high lumen bulbs. Hmmmmm, I wonder why.
Anyhoo, yes I'm a firm believer of the KISS method, and there are plenty of great grows where people just look at lumens. Hell, my ave. yield under a 1000 watt bulb was around 34 oz's, and lumens was all I looked at. First time I went dual (600,400), same strain from clone-38 oz's and the plants were much healthier.
Here's a pretty good site-kind of old: Grow Marijuana FAQ, Cannabis cultivation - marijuana growing tips & photos
And the best damn 400 watt bulb on the mrkt. Phlips MasterColor Ceramic Metal Halide ~ CMH ~ HPS-Retro White
Peace and good luck to all.

It's great that you call up light manufacturers for PAR wattage and have 1000w grows. (btw...having two separate lights is often better because the intersection points of the two lights have an area that is receiving good light from two directions. It's like a Venn diagram.) But most people aren't doing grows that big. Lots of people live in foreign countries where they can't just call light manufacturers. And, again, you don't get any particular benefit from PAR watt information IMO. The people that are pimping PAR watts are grow light manufacturers. There are plenty of threads that discuss whether PAR is useful, but I'm just not seeing a whole lot of positive response from actual growers.

I'm glad you did better in a grow with a change in bulbs...but, honestly, what you're describing is a 10% difference in yield. And, as someone who has obviously done a lot of grows, you know that a ton of things can affect things that much...from having lights one inch closer, to having the dual light overlap I mentioned above, to a small change in water salts, to having a bulb that's been used twice before and has lost ten percent of its output.

For most people doing small to medium grows--let's just say under 1.75 sq meters or 20 square feet--you can make life a lot easier by using proper reflectors, keeping walls and surfaces close to your plants properly reflective, getting good ventilation. This is especially true with the small grows (under 6 sq. ft.) that a lot of people do here. My goal with this thread was to talk to them. Using lumens to compute lights needed is both easy and practical for them. Necessary light, ways to use all the light you have, not overlighting if you don't need to to avoid extra heat and stress...that's the type of practical information that I think people want. And I wish you luck with all grows, growbe.

I no longer grow using a 1000 watt system. I'm now just a 670 watter. I took one of my old super sun reflectors and cut a hole on the opposite side. I now have an eye 400 blue on one end and a 270 watt super agro on the other. Makes for a pretty good over all spectrum. And I get get almost the same yield as before with a mover.
By the way, in regards to the 1000 watt compared to the, 600 and 400, there was a drastic change in plant and bud structure.
I have my grows pretty damn dialed in, but I'm no pro. It's just a hobby for me.
Peace

Crap. I was about to make this a sticky and it got off topic. I'm going to pick the individual Qs out, give them their own thread, and stick this. It will be useful.

Gundari; You really want the 'Daylight' bulbs for vegging. They're 6500k and emit a full spectrum for maximum growth. Come flower, I think numbers could be argued, but you'll want a few 3500k 42watt CFLs IMO. For flower; I guess you could say the redder the better;)
Good Luck!

Nice thread; keep up the good posts:thumbsup:

Growbe how many plants do you have inside that sunroom? also what sq. footage is that and how much light covers it? I noticed you made that growroom yourself and inspired me to use my pragmatic ingenuity in creating my own. Im fairly new though, only having one solo grow and wanting a bit of experienced advice.

i have a question...dutch pimp was saying 6500k for veg and 2700k for flower but im looking at 1000bulbs.com and they have MH at 4200k and HPS at 2100k will that make a difference at all??

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jmello

i have a question...dutch pimp was saying 6500k for veg and 2700k for flower but im looking at 1000bulbs.com and they have MH at 4200k and HPS at 2100k will that make a difference at all??

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No, the MH and HPS are fine like that. The HID lights have their own rules...:D...MH for veg....HPS...for flowering.

The 6500k and 2700k are the preferred color temps for CFL's.

If someone runs a New wave T5 4' long by 21" wide with 6500k bulbs that all contribute to 40k lumens, would that be enough to flower also?

INSpectadeck...there are 144 square inches in a square foot. so, for your area,

18" x 18" = 324 sq. in.
324/144 = 2.25 sq. ft.

You've got 2.25 sq. ft. Really, you want to have at least 4000 lumens per square foot...5000 and up is better. At 1600 lumens per bulb, you should have 6 bulbs or more. In that small of an area, I'd try it with 6 bulbs and make sure that the wall surfaces reflect well. Check out some of the Rubbermaid grows on here...they have grow areas similar in sized to yours. See what type/how many lights they use, and how they did.

turksteelman...yes, you'll do a GREAT job with a T5 like that. 40000 lumes is good for 8 sq. ft. with no problem...that's 48" x 24". And you can use the T5 in flowering too...just switch out some/all of the bulbs for 3000k bulbs. HTG supply sells those for 4 for $20.

High Tech Garden Supply

Good luck to both of you!

I have a 400 watt MH setup from HTG Supply. What kind of results will i get if i try flowering my plants with this bulb compared to a 400 watt HPS or with a conversion bulb for my current setup?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dgsgandalf

I have a 400 watt MH setup from HTG Supply. What kind of results will i get if i try flowering my plants with this bulb compared to a 400 watt HPS or with a conversion bulb for my current setup?

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Many growers flower with MH...some like it...some don't.

Your gonna have to try it one way...then the other...to know which is best for you....:cool:

on a budget ide say mh more flexibile lt spectrum is fuller and with the right bulb plenty of red spectrum

I'm going by this chart for the correct colors until someone shows me a better way.

Preferably 5700 for veg, second choice 6100.
Preferably 2450 for bud, second choice 2750.

In between on either is bad.

i dont like this RoughRider character.

who's with me

all you'r specs are only length and width wheres the height?
this is a three dimensional world isnt it,you gotta splain it to me lucy, cause i dont know how you figure all this without height being a factor, or distance from the plant.
so please add that in your formula so use newbies can figure it out .
thanks

Uh, why? What did he ever do to you? True, I don't exactly agree with everything he's saying, but that's not a reason to dislike someone. At least he's making an effort to contribute things he cares about or is interested in. I like everyone until they give me a reason not to, and he's given me no such reason so far. In this world of billions of different opinions and thought processes, it doesn't make much sense to dislike the people that think differently than myself. That would pretty much be everbody.

i didnt see anything wrong with rough either what ya mean?
i thought it was informative reading.
ima a dork you did say squared my bad dodedooo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bombdiggity

i dont like this RoughRider character.

who's with me

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And you are...? And what did I do to piss you off?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Opie Yutts

Uh, why? What did he ever do to you? True, I don't exactly agree with everything he's saying, but that's not a reason to dislike someone. At least he's making an effort to contribute things he cares about or is interested in. I like everyone until they give me a reason not to, and he's given me no such reason so far. In this world of billions of different opinions and thought processes, it doesn't make much sense to dislike the people that think differently than myself. That would pretty much be everbody.

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Thanks, man. Not saying I'm an expert, but I'm good with lighting and math and have some experience.

The reason I started this thread was for fairly new growers because, in my experience, they often don't understand light. Because of that, they either make things too complicated (PAR watts is a good example) or have too much or too little light. Often, I see first time growers describing their new grow areas and I think, "Man, you do NOT need that much light." After a certain point, extra light results in heat and stress issues. My basic belief is that people should always start small and simple and cheap and learn from their mistakes. This thread is just trying to eliminate some of those mistakes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fiddyonefiddy

all you'r specs are only length and width wheres the height?
this is a three dimensional world isnt it,you gotta splain it to me lucy, cause i dont know how you figure all this without height being a factor, or distance from the plant.
so please add that in your formula so use newbies can figure it out .
thanks

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The height of your grow area isn't as important in terms of light. It's important for ventilation and heat questions--to see how many cubic feet your room is and figure out if a fan is clearing/circulating enough air, for instance. And a smaller overall grow area will retain more heat. But, really, height is only an issue as it relates to heat and air and how tall you want your plants to be...if you've got enough air circulation and can keep your temps down, how tall/short your grow area is doesn't matter, as long as it's big enough for your plants.

(For heat...do the hand thing. Put your hand a foot or so under your HID grow light. Feel any heat? If not, good. If you feel only a little, okay. If it's pretty warm, you need to raise your lights or have a taller grow area. I know this is covered in other threads better than I am doing it here...just search for that.)

Thanks for your input Roughrider. Your words have iron.

sorry idk what was with me.

please forgive me D:

Question about light roughrider.. I am starting my very first grow.. My space is 3 foot wide 3 foot deep and 6 foot tall.. How many lumiens do you think I need or is there a "FORMULA" that you know so I can figure it out.. Because once I solve my light issue then I can get to growing.. :thumbsup:

Hey Gundari, if you are still around (sorry just read thread), I have a Philips fouro tube box. On the box it states:
soft white = 3000k
cool white plus = 4100k
30 watt bulb.
Just in case you can read the tube..sorry all I have are soft white right now. Don't know if this helps or if maybe I am too late.

good luck
Fishens:jointsmile:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Damion5050

Question about light roughrider.. I am starting my very first grow.. My space is 3 foot wide 3 foot deep and 6 foot tall.. How many lumiens do you think I need or is there a "FORMULA" that you know so I can figure it out.. Because once I solve my light issue then I can get to growing.. :thumbsup:

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3' x 3' = 9 sq. ft.

5000 lumens per sq. ft. and you'll do fine. So that's

9 x 5000 = 45000 lumens

...which is pretty much dead on what you'll get from a 400w HPS. I would use that to flower. It will cover your entire grow area very well. Make the most of the light--flat white plant or mylar on the walls.

However, for veg, I stick with the budget alternative. Get two 10.5" clamp lights at Wal-Mart for $10 each. Get six Y-socket splitters for $1.50 each. Get three three packs of 26w GE Daylight (6500k) CFLs for $8.00 each. Put one Y-socket into each of the clamp lights and then a Y-socket into each end of the screwed in Y-socket. Now you've got four bulb sockets for each clamp light with a good reflector. Those lights will put out about about 7,000 lumens each...perfect for taking 6-8 plants through the first few weeks of vegging. IMO, CFLs do the best job in vegging...each one of those could even take a plant all the way through flower if you wanted. Regardless, it's $55 well spent.

Quote:

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23w CFL = 1600 lumens = 69.6 lumens/watt
30w CFL = 2000 lumens = 66.7 lumens/watt
40w CFL = 2600 lumens = 66.3 lumens/watt

compared to

150w HPS = 14000 lumens = 93.3 lumens/watt
250w HPS = 28000 lumens = 112 lumens/watt
400w HPS = 50000 lumens = 125 lumens/watt
600w HPS = 90000 lumens = 150 lumens/watt

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There is a 32 watt CFL (by Supra Lite? I can look it up if interested) that gets 73 lumens/watt. That is the best CFL ratio I have found.

And a 2 foot 2 tube T5 Biax system that gets 84.5 lumens/watt. This appears to be the best for tube fluorescents.

Might be worthwhile to add this info as the ratios are definitely coming much closer to HPS.

Almost all CFLs are in the 65-75 lumens per watt area, and it doesn't seem to be improving much or soon. I think 75 is the upper barrier for CFLs; it may get to 80. You're right...T5s are more efficient. I've heard of them getting 90 or even a little more lumens per watt.

But once you get to a 250w HPS, you're going to get at least 100 lumens per watt. The difference between 70 and 100 doesn't sound like much, but it is. To cover a 5 sq. ft. area, you can use one 250w HPS. Or you can use about 360 watts of CFLs. CFLs are great for grows in less than 3 or 4 sq. ft. Once you get to 5 sq. ft. and above, HPS (or T5, I guess) is just better.

Thing is, a lot of people do grow in 4 sq. ft. or less, and CFLs will do a great, great job in situations like that with a minimum of hassle or start up costs.

sorry double post

Ok so I somehow found this site about Australian Street lights (who the hell makes a site about that? lol) but anyway I'm glad they did because it tells me 99% of Victorian (where I live) street lights have changed to HPS. I was wondering how much it would cost approximately to get a ffixture/lamp/whatever you use for one of these street light globes. Anyone have any idea?

Ok so dw about my last question, I went to Bunnings and tried to get a 400watt hps coz it was only $30 then I asked this guy what I would use to plug it in to and he said "I dunno" then asked this other lady working there and she said "what're you using it for" and the guy goes "growing his marijuana" and i just fake laughed and said "nah im using it for plants though". F*$^ my blood was boiling he was one of those typical 'stoners are lowlifes' people.

Anyway point is I can't get anything for HPS so can anyone give me detailed info on how to connect 4 CFL's to one extension cable? Then connect the cable into a wall socket.
I have 4 bayonet CFL's.

THANKS PEOPLE!

Any HPS bulb will require a special type of base/fixture and power regulator. The power reghulator for HPS (and MH) lights is usually called the ballast. These types of lights must have very constant energy flow to their bulbs. A sudden change in energy will cause the bulb to short out and, possible, break. So to use an HPS bulb, you must use a HPS ballast and fixture. You'll need to go to specialty light store for this sort of thing, or order it off the internet (ebay.com.au should have some). You should be able to find a 400w setup (bulb/ballast/fixture/reflector) for around AU $175-200.

As for the bayonet CFLs...sorry, I don't know how you'd get multiple bayonet fixtures. You could try to find the equivalent of the outlet/bulb converters sold in other countries. Just go to a hardware store and ask about an item that has a plug on one end and a bayonet socket on the other. If you've got four of those, it shouldn't be too hard to rig some sort of lights.

Thanks Roughrider. I should be able to afford that price. If not, summer will be round soon anyway.

As for the CFL's, I just bought some really cheap lamps from K-Mart, smashed the outside and used the cord and ballast/fixture whatever. I wired two (one on each end) of an old fish tank cover. Then I just have one good lamp that I can't smash with a home-made reflector. These three bulbs equal 4 650 lumens. For one plant. I'm working on getting another cheap lamp to smash lol. I will then put that into the fish tank cover also and this should suffice for a while right? Once I have more than a square foot to cover I might purchase four more bulbs and lamps to put around the sides and have four on top. Think this would do the trick?

That sounds okay. Remember you need less light during vegginm, because the plants are smaller. One 23w bulb will pop a seedling and get you through a couple of weeks of vegging. So if you've got 3 or 4 CFLs, that's actually enough to get 3-4 plants going for a few weeks. You can go smash more cheap lamps after that. :thumbsup:

Actually, look into getting a 10 1/2" clamp light with a reflector at Wal-Mart. They're around $10 American. I bet one of those and a Y-socket adaptor would be less than AU $20. Maybe even cheaper than cheap lamp--and you get a reflector too!