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Some front line views of the war against God.
After reading some here I felt this fitting, not so much as a reply but as a dedicated thread.
There is a real spiritual war out there against God, and the forces involved know that the "Family", "The Mind", and "Journalism/education" is major spiritual high ground to take.
EXPELLED: No Intelligence Allowed
If you have a question about his intellegence and view please note this in His Bio Link below:
"He graduated from Columbia University in 1966 with honors in economics and as valedictorian of the 1970 Yale Law School class. He has worked as a poverty lawyer, a trial lawyer, a university adjunct (American University, University of California at Santa Cruz and Pepperdine University), a speech writer for Presidents Richard Nixon and Gerald Ford and a columnist for The Wall Street Journal, The Los Angeles Herald Examiner, King Features Syndicate, Los Angeles Magazine, New York Magazine, E! Online and The American Spectator. He also writes frequently for The Washington Post. Stein has written and published 16 books (seven novels, nine nonfiction books)".
Ben Stein (I) - Biography
He has wrestled through the core of the highest levels of Journalistic politic/correctness.
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Some front line views of the war against God.
i am deaf, what's the video all about?
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Some front line views of the war against God.
It's a clip about the censorship of God in the education system. The NEA (National Education Association) is entirely too cerebral to consider intelligent design as a viable option. It's a career killer to suggest such.
Good to see ya Buddy
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Some front line views of the war against God.
Intelligent design. What a funny name for mythology.
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Some front line views of the war against God.
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Intelligent design. What a funny name for mythology.
LOL
Seriously I believe this was due to "Ken Miller" who proved in a courtroom that intelligent design would not work inside of a classroom, dogmatic teaching results in a standardized form of belief and lacks the open questioning and inquisitive nature which is only a tiny part of our brain (im being sarcastic).
Intelligent design some believe would consist of a singular sentence and the rest of the year would be science and rationality and reasoning, intelligent design has no weight behind it therefore there is nothing to teach.
Of course you are welcome to take classes in mythology and religious studies yet let us not bombard our entire educational system with intelligent design.
The one thing teaching intelligent design in the classroom creates is a form of learning by where you are teaching literally 'not to learn and question'. Evolution teaches an underlying message of advancement of learning and an advancement of the human race as a whole, which is to be honest what is really happening to us.
So it fits in well with whatâ??s 'really' happening today as oppose to a backward form of Judea Christian teaching of creationism.
There is no mass conspiracy here, it is just the best decided method and I personally agree with it. Evolution may not be true, yet it is not as dictatorial as a teaching as oppose to "God Did It" if you wish to study intelligent design and believe in it then do so at your own free will, a science class will not stop you.
Remember still I take no side on evolution, and would not dictate it as absolute truth in a classroom to children or even 'tell them to believe it' it has still to be proven to be true.
Yet I do take a side on our childrenâ??s "evolutionary thinking" (as in moving forward and advancing).
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Some front line views of the war against God.
I see you guys have life all figured out. . . and your world works for you.
Wisdom is actually seeing that there are more questions than answers when knowledge is gained.
Do we not all have narrow views?
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Some front line views of the war against God.
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Originally Posted by dannyboy420
Intelligent design. What a funny name for mythology.
hahahahahahh
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Some front line views of the war against God.
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Originally Posted by Fallen_Icarus
Remember still I take no side on evolution, and would not dictate it as absolute truth in a classroom to children or even 'tell them to believe it' it has still to be proven to be true.
Well, no, nothing has to be proven to be true. Did gravity have to be proven before it existed? It just has to be proven for you to understand and accept it as truth.
Perhaps evolution isn't the end-all be-all theory of how we, or any living organism came to be. Neither is Intelligent Design. I agree with everything else you said, Fallen_Icarus.
The real question is, how did that first unicellular organism come into existence on our planet, before it evolved into a multicellular organism, etc? Did they come on an asteroid? If there is a God, did that God place it on our planet? Did Aliens plant it on our planet as an experiment? Did Aliens plant it on our planet to create an ally? Is, perhaps, our and every organism's existence on this planet evidence that there is extraterrestial life out there, somewhere? Without a doubt, there has to be. And I believe they are here -- but that's beyond the point.
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Some front line views of the war against God.
I would much prefer our public schools just teach the facts. Let them investigate mythology on there own or when they get to college or go to a private school. And quit demonizing drugs and abortion and other things in public school. Just the facts. Let the kids with there parents input decide what they want to believe in.
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Some front line views of the war against God.
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Originally Posted by killerweed420
I would much prefer our public schools just teach the facts. Let them investigate mythology on there own or when they get to college or go to a private school. And quit demonizing drugs and abortion and other things in public school. Just the facts. Let the kids with there parents input decide what they want to believe in.
Too bad it isn't like that, huh? Grade school thorugh high school is all bullshit. It is indeed a place to indoctrinate kids early to the American belief system, and society. It's hardly about learning what really is, especially when it comes to the subject of History. Biased textbooks, biased teachings given by teachers. The teacher's don't usually know this, either, because they have as well been indoctrinated. It's sad. We don't educate anymore... we indoctrinate. Although, college is a bit different, in that it does actually teach more than indoctrinate. But the indoctrination is still there, partly due to the fact that there's so much homework and reading. It becomes your life.
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Some front line views of the war against God.
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Originally Posted by mfqr
Did Aliens plant it on our planet as an experiment? Did Aliens plant it on our planet to create an ally?
You're leaving out the question of where the aliens came from. Most likely, some place very similar to we're from, only a long way off.
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Originally Posted by mfqr
Is, perhaps, our and every organism's existence on this planet evidence that there is extraterrestial life out there, somewhere?
Of course our existence is near proof of intelligent life somewhere out there. If we can exist here and there is an infinite universe out there, there has got to be someone else out there. The sad thing is that they're all so far away that we'll never see them in our lifetimes.
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Originally Posted by killerweed420
I would much prefer our public schools just teach the facts. Let them investigate mythology on there own or when they get to college or go to a private school. And quit demonizing drugs and abortion and other things in public school. Just the facts. Let the kids with there parents input decide what they want to believe in.
This is why I don't like education being run by the government, because of course the government is going to shove their views onto the poor, poor children. Of course, any private school is usually run by some organization that has it's own agenda also.
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Originally Posted by mfqr
We don't educate anymore... we indoctrinate.
Was it ever any other way?
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Some front line views of the war against God.
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Originally Posted by mfqr
Too bad it isn't like that, huh? Grade school thorugh high school is all bullshit. It is indeed a place to indoctrinate kids early to the American belief system, and society. It's hardly about learning what really is, especially when it comes to the subject of History. Biased textbooks, biased teachings given by teachers. The teacher's don't usually know this, either, because they have as well been indoctrinated. It's sad. We don't educate anymore... we indoctrinate. Although, college is a bit different, in that it does actually teach more than indoctrinate. But the indoctrination is still there, partly due to the fact that there's so much homework and reading. It becomes your life.
I had an article kicking around, unfortunately I seem to have misplaced it. Anyway, it dealt with exactly what you're talking about. It quoted documents from the 1930's where it was made clear that the American educational system was being revised to create a large mass of general labourers, easily manipulated and used to repetitive mind-dulling tasks, while shooting a select few rapidly to the positions of power. From what I remember, a lot of it is based on wealth - although it can carry over to simply being able to afford private schooling.
In any case, I'm of the opinion that we should teach scientific beliefs in schools, and religious beliefs in church. But that's me.
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Some front line views of the war against God.
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Originally Posted by cadmiumblimp
You're leaving out the question of where the aliens came from. Most likely, some place very similar to we're from, only a long way off.
I'm speaking about how we could have came to be, not how extraterrestials did. But if I were to go that far, that question would be asked.
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Of course our existence is near proof of intelligent life somewhere out there. If we can exist here and there is an infinite universe out there, there has got to be someone else out there. The sad thing is that they're all so far away that we'll never see them in our lifetimes.
Those were not questions I couldn't answer myself, just to let you know. They were a bit rhetorical. I already am 100% sure there is extraterrestial life, and I'm sure the universe is filled with it... intelligent or not.
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This is why I don't like education being run by the government, because of course the government is going to shove their views onto the poor, poor children. Of course, any private school is usually run by some organization that has it's own agenda also.
Yep.
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Was it ever any other way?
No, you're right. It most likely hasn't been, which is sad. Excuse me for saying "anymore." I'll rephrase: "We don't educate... we indoctrinate."
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Some front line views of the war against God.
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Originally Posted by LuckyG
I had an article kicking around, unfortunately I seem to have misplaced it. Anyway, it dealt with exactly what you're talking about. It quoted documents from the 1930's where it was made clear that the American educational system was being revised to create a large mass of general labourers, easily manipulated and used to repetitive mind-dulling tasks, while shooting a select few rapidly to the positions of power. From what I remember, a lot of it is based on wealth - although it can carry over to simply being able to afford private schooling.
In any case, I'm of the opinion that we should teach scientific beliefs in schools, and religious beliefs in church. But that's me.
Haha, yes. That is it. Our educational system pumps out "obedient workers," for the most part. What the system does not do is pump out free thinkers.
And yes, I do agree that unbiased science and unbiased history should be taught in schools, and religion should be left to Church. Afterall, that is what Church is for, right?
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Some front line views of the war against God.
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Originally Posted by mfqr
I'm speaking about how we could have came to be, not how extraterrestials did. But if I were to go that far, that question would be asked.
My point was supposed to be that extraterrestrials likely came about in the exact (or similar) way we did.
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Originally Posted by mfqr
Haha, yes. That is it. Our educational system pumps out "obedient workers," for the most part. What the system does not do is pump out free thinkers.
And yet...here we are, thinking freely. I'm not disputing what you're saying, as I agree entirely, but schools (as they are now) can only go so far when it comes to indoctrination.
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Some front line views of the war against God.
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Originally Posted by cadmiumblimp
My point was supposed to be that extraterrestrials likely came about in the exact (or similar) way we did.
And yet...here we are, thinking freely. I'm not disputing what you're saying, as I agree entirely, but schools (as they are now) can only go so far when it comes to indoctrination.
Not everyone really thinks freely. In fact, very few people do.
And yes, I was going to say that extraterrestials probably came in the way we did as well. Also, we're already in contact with them. So it is in our lifetimes. Not we as a public, but we as in a very small amount of people. Don't worry, we'll see extraterrestials much more intelligent and advanced than us soon.
SETI has actually picked up many extraterrestial signals, too. But they have been covered up by the government.
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Some front line views of the war against God.
I do so love these intelligent design discussions.
As a Pastafarian or follower of the Flying spaghetti monster I feel it is important that my religion be taught so others can be "touched".
Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster
Note to mods this link is totally relevant to this conversation as is the FSM.
In the beginning, the Flying Spaghetti Monster created the Universe, presumably when he was drunk. This aspect, known as Unintelligent Design, has successfully been used to explained disco and Jar Jar Binks, among other things. His Noodiliness created pirates as absolute divine beings. The declining numbers of pirates over recent years has caused the Flying Spaghetti Monster to become angry and punish us through global warming. Heaven consists of beer volcanoes and a stripper factory, while there is no known equivalent to Hell. This in a nutshell, is Pastafarianism.
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Some front line views of the war against God.
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Originally Posted by dannyboy420
Intelligent design. What a funny name for mythology.
lol, best post in this thread :thumbsup:
"Intelligent" design isn't based on facts or evidence, it's based on ignorance, or as Christians call it, faith. But all that aside, teaching "intelligent" design in public schools would violate our first amendment for freedom of religion. I don't see why the argument should continue beyond this point, simply put, teaching "intelligent" design in government required education is unconstitutional.
If you want your kids to believe in some fairy tale, send them to a private school that will teach them everything your cult believes in. If you don't have the money to send your kids to private school, too bad, send them to church on the weekends but leave the others alone!
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Some front line views of the war against God.
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Well, no, nothing has to be proven to be true. Did gravity have to be proven before it existed? It just has to be proven for you to understand and accept it as truth.
Firstly, im not saying things have to be proven for them to exist, that doesnâ??t make sense because elements of life exist which have not been proved yet - like conscious air, or intuition etc etc.
Read what I wrote again, im just saying teachers should ATLEAST tell students that evolution has still to be proven to be true, there are numerous missing links and Darwin also stole much of his work from his Grandfather (not that this has anything to do with the validity of the theory of evolution) - Evolution births ideas such as eugenics - which im sure you understand has resulted in some horrid experimental catastrophes - teaching that intelligence is in a blood line and power is in a blood line is not morally correct.
Evolution itself has no morality - Richard Dawkins - a profound evolutionist has spoken of the complete lack of morality in terms of evolution.
And if you donâ??t prove anything, then your basis is only a hypothesis - what if the theory of gravity was in actual fact - not right? It was only shown to be true when it was PROVED.
Your correct in a sense, but its a question of odds, often some theories just happen to be true once proven, some people create good theories, yet there are theories LIKE EVOLUTION OF US which needs to be proven true because - they may just be wrong.
Sorry to ramble on, I hope you understand my point.
Of course things do not have to be proven for them to exist but it would be nice to know if we actually did evolve from lower form animals into higher forms without any intervention, I was just saying people should not automatically rule out intelligent design as they do in schools, because they dont even give the kids an option (this is all I was saying).
There should be a balance in our schooling system by which children in science classes are still told that evolution is not proven IN OUR STORY (because it simply is not) there are numerous missing links blah blah.
Your American schooling system does not teach the benefits of communism and socialistic Governing im guessing?
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I do so love these intelligent design discussions.
As a Pastafarian or follower of the Flying spaghetti monster I feel it is important that my religion be taught so others can be "touched".
Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster
As stories of the bible are told at the beginning it should be said that nothing of the existence of Jesus Christ can be proven.
The same applies for the theories we teach our children of evolution.
They should know that it is as much BULL$%$£ a theory as the flying spaghetti monster. AND intelligent design.
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"Intelligent" design isn't based on facts or evidence,
Well, neither is evolution when you try and explain our existence.
I noticed someone speaking of 2 theories to choose from?
Creationism or evolution?
How about a combination of these?
Perhaps we were created and designed and engineered to evolve at such a rapid rate compared to our cousin animals whom according to evolutionists such as Dawkins have also been on the same evolutionary path as us.
If we can genetically engineer animals, and considering the size of the universe (and the probability of the existence of intelligent 'aliens') then why cant they also engineer "animals"? (us).
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Some front line views of the war against God.
There is so much more evidence that evolution is how things came to be than that God just put it all there. We know that earth has been in existence for millions (billions?) of years, that humans haven't always existed here, and that living things do, in fact, evolve. Just because we don't know every step of the way from a single-celled organism to our current state doesn't mean we can't say that certain things had a certain likelihood of happening. The reason intelligent design shouldn't be taught in schools is because it simply is not science. Evolution, however, is. When you take an honest look at both, you can't spin it any other way.
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Some front line views of the war against God.
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Originally Posted by Fallen_Icarus
Firstly, im not saying things have to be proven for them to exist, that doesnâ??t make sense because elements of life exist which have not been proved yet - like conscious air, or intuition etc etc.
Read what I wrote again, im just saying teachers should ATLEAST tell students that evolution has still to be proven to be true, there are numerous missing links and Darwin also stole much of his work from his Grandfather (not that this has anything to do with the validity of the theory of evolution) - Evolution births ideas such as eugenics - which im sure you understand has resulted in some horrid experimental catastrophes - teaching that intelligence is in a blood line and power is in a blood line is not morally correct.
Evolution itself has no morality - Richard Dawkins - a profound evolutionist has spoken of the complete lack of morality in terms of evolution.
And if you donâ??t prove anything, then your basis is only a hypothesis - what if the theory of gravity was in actual fact - not right? It was only shown to be true when it was PROVED.
Your correct in a sense, but its a question of odds, often some theories just happen to be true once proven, some people create good theories, yet there are theories LIKE EVOLUTION OF US which needs to be proven true because - they may just be wrong.
Sorry to ramble on, I hope you understand my point.
Of course things do not have to be proven for them to exist but it would be nice to know if we actually did evolve from lower form animals into higher forms without any intervention, I was just saying people should not automatically rule out intelligent design as they do in schools, because they dont even give the kids an option (this is all I was saying).
There should be a balance in our schooling system by which children in science classes are still told that evolution is not proven IN OUR STORY (because it simply is not) there are numerous missing links blah blah.
Your American schooling system does not teach the benefits of communism and socialistic Governing im guessing?
As stories of the bible are told at the beginning it should be said that nothing of the existence of Jesus Christ can be proven.
The same applies for the theories we teach our children of evolution.
They should know that it is as much BULL$%$£ a theory as the flying spaghetti monster. AND intelligent design.
Well, neither is evolution when you try and explain our existence.
I noticed someone speaking of 2 theories to choose from?
Creationism or evolution?
How about a combination of these?
Perhaps we were created and designed and engineered to evolve at such a rapid rate compared to our cousin animals whom according to evolutionists such as Dawkins have also been on the same evolutionary path as us.
If we can genetically engineer animals, and considering the size of the universe (and the probability of the existence of intelligent 'aliens') then why cant they also engineer "animals"? (us).
Haha, I understood your point from the start. I just felt like replying in the way I did, because the way you worded it meant that it has to be proven to be true, and you did in this post again, too. I knew what you meant, don't worry - I'm an intelligent being ;).
But I see what you're saying, that God gives morality. You don't think we're smart enough to come up with our own ideas of morality? That perhaps our consciousness and intelligence evolved over time, thus everyone naturally taking the course of Altruism? Most people help others out if need be, and not all of them believe in God either. And since they don't believe in God, then God doesn't share his morality with them. You know, it's funny though, because all religious people will always find an excuse and justification for anything - because it's all covered in religion.
"God gives morality" - How is that even a working argument? It isn't, because you have not yet even proven that God exists. We have way more evidence for evolution than for God. A lot of religious people use the Bible to actually argue. Which is a totally incorrect way of arguing, because one has yet to prove that the Bible is right about everything. It's really too bad that people are so brainwashed. I feel sorry for people who have dug their great intelligence and consciousness into a deep hole with religion. Sorry, that's just my view. But it is a real sad story, and hopefully one day this will all be ended.
I think Evolution is the closest we have gotten to how it is, but it's possible it's different. God creating everything? Give me a damn break... it's such a load of crap. Only the ones involved in religion can't see it - we atheists and agnostics can smell it from a mile away.
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Some front line views of the war against God.
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There is so much more evidence that evolution is how things came to be than that God just put it all there
And what do you think 'put your theory here'?
What 'put the evolutionary process' here?
Did it just form out of thin air and start evolving into different animals?
Well according to evolution (and if you know anything about the subject), we evolved from rocks!
Did you just make this comment up yourself with no thought or reasoning? I mean have you actually researched into the lack of evidence supporting the theory of evolution?
The fact that I speak of 'intelligent design' should not auto drive your brain toward me indoctrinating people into a Judea Christian God creationist perspective of reality and existence. All I am saying is that it should be taken into account that there is as much evidence for evolution to be truth as much as there is evidence to prove that everything was created by God.
I am not a creationist and you are free to form an attack on creationism all you like but to not firstly understand the complete lack of evidence for evolution firstly this is a pillar of evidence one must overcome!
Evolutionists believe they are climbing the mountain of knowledge - just remember when you reach the top a creationist could be already sitting there.:thumbsup:
Evolutionists say that apes have the same amount of chromosomes (donâ??t quote me on this) as humans, well there is something else which has the same amount of chromosomes than humans, and its tobacco lol. Did we evolve also from tobacco?
So may I suggest to the atheist/evolutionist to do research on the actual validity of your own 'belief' before making comments on how "ignorant" and "futile" the creationists argument is.
This is all im saying.
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Just because we don't know every step of the way from a single-celled organism to our current state doesn't mean we can't say that certain things had a certain likelihood of happening.
And it also does not mean you can flood schools with this belief, call it truth while dismantling any creationists perspectives or arguments when you yourself are defending a belief which was founded by a plagiarist and which gave birth to some of the most immoral theories on human control around today.
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The reason intelligent design shouldn't be taught in schools is because it simply is not science. Evolution, however, is. When you take an honest look at both, you can't spin it any other way.
May I suggest you read a book called 'Islam and Science' and then tell me that religion has not aided science in any way in history.
This is a joke.
Science took its foundations from religious doctrines and ancient civilizations, science didnâ??t just begin in America, people such as the Mayans, Aztecs, Hindus, Caral, Sumerians, the Islamic Empire etc, all of these people had profound knowledge of the universe, nature, the human body, physics and chemistry etc not to mention the profound knowledge of our solar system, the Egyptians etc, all also were incredibly spiritual and religious.
Some of these civilizations lived for a millennia in peace, (research the 'Caral'), ancient civilizations built or created what we use today such as forms of Government, politics, socialistic idealism, mathematics and construction which we cannot yet match (pyramids).
Like I said, you should respect religion.
To do not is ignorant.
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Some front line views of the war against God.
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But I see what you're saying, that God gives morality
I do not recall saying this, infact I do not recall saying anything about where morality should or does come from.
All I said is there is a considerable question of morality about evolution, you could say to an evolutionist - "but what about morality?" If survival of the fittest has no morality one should kill one another to survive, is this moral? (the evolutionist MUST answer yes or he/she will be in contradiction).
I hope your reading my posts thoroughly and not just skimming the text! lol
Im not saying that all evolutionists are evil (but there is a question of morality which must be placed to them, which often as dawkins experiences on a regular basis, cannot answer) I dont proclaim that evolutionists are vindictive people who are looking out for only themselves, often people cannot live happily knowing they have done harm to others, its called guilt and that is a form of punishment.
There is good and evil in every school of thought, you will find corruption in religion aswel as in evolution you will also find good in each because good and evil lies within us all, this is the reason why it follows us into every doctrine of belief, system of governing or theory we create.
I am just saying to the evolutionists whom castigate the terrible attrociousness of religion to firstly think of their own belief and what that has contributed in terms of evil beliefs and doctrines such as eugenics as one particular example im sure you are familiar with.
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"God gives morality" - How is that even a working argument? It isn't, because you have not yet even proven that God exists.
I never once put forward this arguement, I have not once even said I believe or do not believe in God.
I presume you are not directly debating with me and simply asking good questions.
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A lot of religious people use the Bible to actually argue. Which is a totally incorrect way of arguing, because one has yet to prove that the Bible is right about everything. It's really too bad that people are so brainwashed. I feel sorry for people who have dug their great intelligence and consciousness into a deep hole with religion. Sorry, that's just my view. But it is a real sad story, and hopefully one day this will all be ended.
Go on youtube.com and type in "Dr Zakir Naik" and then come back and let me know if its had any effect on your current opinion.
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I think Evolution is the closest we have gotten to how it is, but it's possible it's different. God creating everything? Give me a damn break... it's such a load of crap. Only the ones involved in religion can't see it - we atheists and agnostics can smell it from a mile away.
Well whats the atheists Bible?
The origin of species?
Whos their Jesus? their God? - Charles Darwin?
Do you see the paradox?
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Some front line views of the war against God.
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Originally Posted by Fallen_Icarus
I mean have you actually researched into the lack of evidence supporting the theory of evolution?
No, I can't say that I have, though I do believe I know enough to say that it is quite plausible and much more plausible than...other things.
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Originally Posted by Fallen_Icarus
The fact that I speak of 'intelligent design' should not auto drive your brain toward me indoctrinating people into a Judea Christian God creationist perspective of reality and existence.
This would be fine, but the words 'intelligent design' actually refer to a very specific viewpoint put forth by fundamentalist Christians. To be honest, because of that, I've always seen 'intelligent design' as a bit of a misnomer, since it has nothing to do with science. Myself, I believe it's very likely there are higher powers out there that may or may not have had a role in our creation, but I believe that SCIENCE is more on the side of our having evolved from SOMETHING, rather than everything having just appeared here over seven days.
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Originally Posted by Fallen_Icarus
Evolutionists believe they are climbing the mountain of knowledge - just remember when you reach the top a creationist could be already sitting there.:thumbsup:
I have no problem with that, except for the fact that a "creationist" generally refers to a fundamentalist Christian who believes the world was created in seven days approximately 10,000 years ago. Completely preposterous.
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Originally Posted by Fallen_Icarus
So may I suggest to the atheist/evolutionist to do research on the actual validity of your own 'belief' before making comments on how "ignorant" and "futile" the creationists argument is.
This is all im saying.
Again, the very thought that the earth was created in seven days approximately 10,000 years ago is preposterous. Also, as I said, I have no problem with the possibility of a higher power.
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Originally Posted by Fallen_Icarus
And it also does not mean you can flood schools with this belief, call it truth while dismantling any creationists perspectives or arguments when you yourself are defending a belief which was founded by a plagiarist and which gave birth to some of the most immoral theories on human control around today.
Science deals with what can be seen and observed. That's why you don't have intelligent design in science classes -- it can't be seen and observed. If there's no designer to be seen and observed, you can't really put it in a classroom. Evolution, on the other hand, CAN be seen and observed.
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Originally Posted by Fallen_Icarus
Like I said, you should respect religion.
To do not is ignorant.
When religions stop spreading falsehoods I'll start respecting them. Religion has a tendency to become just as immoral as as anything else.
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Some front line views of the war against God.
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No, I can't say that I have, though I do believe I know enough to say that it is quite plausible and much more plausible than...other things
Well may I suggest you do some reading into what you seem to 'believe' in, before you form any attacks on 'creationism'.
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This would be fine, but the words 'intelligent design' actually refer to a very specific viewpoint put forth by fundamentalist Christians.
Not true, seemingly you have not purchased yet a dictionary so I will paste you the meanings of the words 'intelligent design'.
**Yawns**
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it is a noun and its abbreviated form is ID. It means a theory that nature and complex biological structures were designed by intelligent beings ...
bloggerparty.com/newest_words_in_the_dictionary_for_2005
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Intelligent design is an argument for the existence of God, based on the premise that "certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection
hmm, do you see the word 'christian' in any of those definitions?
I dont.
You percieve it to be related to christianity yet islamic people are also creationists, I again suggest you read the book 'science and Islam'.
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I have no problem with that, except for the fact that a "creationist" generally refers to a fundamentalist Christian who believes the world was created in seven days approximately 10,000 years ago.
Well in the Quran it defines these days as each being many thousends of years.
Do your research, I cannot be bothered to teach you.
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Science deals with what can be seen and observed. That's why you don't have intelligent design in science classes -- it can't be seen and observed.
Have you ever seen a man evolving from an ape?
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When religions stop spreading falsehoods I'll start respecting them.
And you say this in defence of evolution which does nothing but what you have just described?
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Some front line views of the war against God.
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Originally Posted by LuckyG
I had an article kicking around, unfortunately I seem to have misplaced it. Anyway, it dealt with exactly what you're talking about. It quoted documents from the 1930's where it was made clear that the American educational system was being revised to create a large mass of general labourers, easily manipulated and used to repetitive mind-dulling tasks, while shooting a select few rapidly to the positions of power. From what I remember, a lot of it is based on wealth - although it can carry over to simply being able to afford private schooling.
In any case, I'm of the opinion that we should teach scientific beliefs in schools, and religious beliefs in church. But that's me.
I completely agree with you. I always felt like I wasn't really learning anything in school as much as I was being bullshitted. I learned much more on my own than I did in high school. It was an obvious dogmatic exercise in obedience more than it was educational. I hate it, but there's nothing we can do from inside this forum. There seems to be alot of us that agree on the same things. How much power could we be coming together as one and proposing numerous new ideas to the same people over and over? Too bad no one is ever down with me on that.
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Some front line views of the war against God.
Ahhhhhh another religious debate. How wonderfully mundane and repetitious. One side is totally left-wingest, the other side is hard-core right-wingers and the minority in the middle tries to mediate.
wheeeeeeeee..... im having fun
:wtf:
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Some front line views of the war against God.
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Originally Posted by GraziLovesMary
Ahhhhhh another religious debate. How wonderfully mundane and repetitious. One side is totally left-wingest, the other side is hard-core right-wingers and the minority in the middle tries to mediate.
wheeeeeeeee..... im having fun
:wtf:
Sounds just like politics, eh?
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Some front line views of the war against God.
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Originally Posted by Fallen_Icarus
I do not recall saying this, infact I do not recall saying anything about where morality should or does come from.
All I said is there is a considerable question of morality about evolution, you could say to an evolutionist - "but what about morality?" If survival of the fittest has no morality one should kill one another to survive, is this moral? (the evolutionist MUST answer yes or he/she will be in contradiction).
It isn't a question about morality. Why do you bring morality into it? You can't disprove evolution by bringing up a point about "morality." Richard Dawkins, though, does argue that Altruism is actually something that every human shares to an extent. He says that it is a hunter-gatherer kind of evolution of consciousness, which is to help others in need. So yes, it can be argued that morality can be fit into evolution. I still don't know why you bring up the concept of morality in offense to Evolution theory. It confused me, so I made the assumption that you simply meant that Creationism supports the concept of morality... and a lot of Creationists use that argument. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
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I hope your reading my posts thoroughly and not just skimming the text! lol
Well, your posts get kind of long and boring, so I do end up skimming.
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Im not saying that all evolutionists are evil (but there is a question of morality which must be placed to them, which often as dawkins experiences on a regular basis, cannot answer) I dont proclaim that evolutionists are vindictive people who are looking out for only themselves, often people cannot live happily knowing they have done harm to others, its called guilt and that is a form of punishment.
Oh, okay. Whatever.
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There is good and evil in every school of thought, you will find corruption in religion aswel as in evolution you will also find good in each because good and evil lies within us all, this is the reason why it follows us into every doctrine of belief, system of governing or theory we create.
I see much more corruption in the realms of religion than in the realms of the theory of Evolution. Religion is a doctrine, and Evolution is a theory. Perhaps you mean that you see corruption in science as well? Of course there is. One example is the demonizing of cannabis, and false scientific reports on how "bad" it is.
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I am just saying to the evolutionists whom castigate the terrible attrociousness of religion to firstly think of their own belief and what that has contributed in terms of evil beliefs and doctrines such as eugenics as one particular example im sure you are familiar with.
Well, I don't know much about Eugenics, so I can't say much about it. However, we both know that religion has been committing atrocities for thousands of years. Evolution has only been a theory for a fraction of that time. So considering the time, religion has committed many more atrocities.
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I never once put forward this arguement, I have not once even said I believe or do not believe in God.
Misunderstanding.
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I presume you are not directly debating with me and simply asking good questions.
Nope, it was just a misunderstanding.
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Go on youtube.com and type in "Dr Zakir Naik" and then come back and let me know if its had any effect on your current opinion.
I will, but I guarantee it won't turn me to religion.
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Well whats the atheists Bible?
The origin of species?
Whos their Jesus? their God? - Charles Darwin?
Do you see the paradox?
Thanks for that tasteless bit of sarcasm. Atheists have no Bible, and believe in no God. That's what Atheism is. Me, however... I am agnostic.
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Some front line views of the war against God.
I watched a bunch of videos of Dr. Zakir Naik. He's a smart man, but I'm not convinced. My opinion remains the same, sorry.
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Some front line views of the war against God.
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It isn't a question about morality. Why do you bring morality into it? You can't disprove evolution by bringing up a point about "morality."
Im not and never have tried to disprove evolution, I simply said that there exists the question of morality in regards to the theory of evolution, saying this does not mean I am attempting to 'disprove' it.
For all we know morality does exist in evolutionary thinking and we will all be punished for putting our own selfish desires and needs before others, on the other hand there could be no universal law or God to punish us for trying to survive.
Im just saying that these are the kinds of questions which need to be addressed by evolutionists, including the lack of evidence and the negative aspects to the theory, atleast give the students/school kids creationism as another potential viable option.
You cant just rule it out.
Im not taking either a creationists or evolutionists perspectives side.
Its easy to debate someone when you categorize them into a particular belief, or segment of thinking. This is the first step, to find out exactly what you wish to shoot down.
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Well, your posts get kind of long and boring, so I do end up skimming.
Well I cant always compensate for the lack of your attention span, if you find them boring then dont read them. Believe in evolution as you see fit to believe it is true then please do so.
Like I said before, atheists are at the bottom of the pile for me, and im no creationist (confused?)
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I see much more corruption in the realms of religion than in the realms of the theory of Evolution. Religion is a doctrine, and Evolution is a theory.
You seem to be one of the millions of people who move from one theory to the other without questioning yourself or the theories you believe.
Im presuming at some point in your life you were religious, something, some kind of questioning and thinking brought you away from it and you chose evolution?
How about questioning evolution?
There is as much evidence to support evolution as there is to support the creation of us by the Judea Christian God.
Take that into consideration before you move on forums proclaiming how stupid creationists are.
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Religion is a doctrine, and Evolution is a theory.
And what point are you trying to make here? That doctrines are more evil than theories?
And how do you go about measuring such an absurd statement?
If your brother was a more intelligent/stronger individual than you then eugenics tells me (which derives from evolution) that you are inferior, you are not needed on this earth so you will be killed.
Your wasting valuable resources by existing (remember we are trying to improve humanity) - who needs disabled people? Who needs deaf people? Who needs any of these people?
This is the thinking that evolution has given birth to.
EUGENICS
So donâ??t ever sit there saying that religion has not caused as much evil as evolution because if you do research on some of the horrific aspects and history of eugenics programmes it will lead you to the most horrid areas of Nazi Germany you have ever seen in your life.
So think about that before you accuse religion of such evils, and what evils? Corrupt priests and caliphs? Notice the word CORRUPT!
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Perhaps you mean that you see corruption in science as well? Of course there is. One example is the demonizing of cannabis, and false scientific reports on how "bad" it is.
Demonising cannabis? Is that the best you can come up with? How about eugenics which I keep mentioning? How about preservation of blood lines? Nazi Germany practiced eugenics and population control thoroughly.
Evolution gives birth to ideologies such as the Superior master white races such as the aryans race, who feel they are the most evolved species.
Remember evolution states that we evolved from rocks.
Why donâ??t you do some research on Josef Mengele, a profound believer of evolution and eugenics.
Nazi eugenics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Josef Mengele - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(I hope im not boring you)
If you believe in evolution and I asked you questions such as, do you think innocent people should be killed so that you can survive? You would have to answer yes to avoid contradiction.
Charles Darwin was a racist plagiarist, who wrote his grandfathers work the origin of species.
Im not going to debate from a creationists perspective with you because I not once said I support the views of creationism, I am just saying that evolutionist/atheists should firstly consider the validity of their own beliefs before claiming creationists are idiots and retards.
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Leading Nazis, and early 1900 influential German biologists, revealed in their writings that Darwinâ??s theory and publications had a major influence upon Nazi race policies. Hitler believed that the human gene pool could be improved by using selective breeding similar to how farmers breed superior cattle strains. In the formulation of their racial policies, Hitlerâ??s government relied heavily upon Darwinism, especially the elaborations by Spencer and Haeckel. As a result, a central policy of Hitlerâ??s administration was the development and implementation of policies designed to protect the â??superior raceâ??. This required at the very least preventing the â??inferior racesâ?? from mixing with those judged superior, in order to reduce contamination of the latterâ??s gene pool. The â??superior raceâ?? belief was based on the theory of group inequality within each species, a major presumption and requirement of Darwinâ??s original â??survival of the fittestâ?? theory. This philosophy culminated in the â??final solutionâ??, the extermination of approximately six million Jews and four million other people who belonged to what German scientists judged as â??inferior racesâ??.
So before you make claims such as:
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I see much more corruption in the realms of religion than in the realms of the theory of Evolution.
I suggest you research 'in favour of your opposition' if you truly believe you are correct about what you say then look at it from every angle.
People often say the Nazi movement was a mass implementation of Darwinian thinking.
I would agree.
I just want you to understand what you are actually saying when you type messages on here. You need to look at both sides of the story, I am in no way saying evolution is not true, I am in no way saying creationism is or is not true. You can put words in my mouth and categorize my belief system all you like yet this is an illusion you are creating to entertain your boredom.
Evolutionists must realise the lack of evidence of what they talk about in terms of criticizing creationists, this leads me back to the original subject about teaching evolution in schools as oppose to creationism. As you know I still stand by my claims that children should be told of the lack of evidence, and the negative side of evolution, and also shown creationism/intelligent design as a viable reason for our coming of existence.
This was my original point, the fact that I mentioned the "question of morality" is just an example of one of the items which should be told to students with regards to the theory of evolution, I by no means say that evolution completely lacks morality (but there is a huge question mark) yet these kinds of questions and 'sides of the story' are never put forward in education.
The history of the evils of religion, evolution and indoctrination into cults for example itself must be addressed - this does not mean mfqr you need to post me back a message complaining about me criticizing indoctrination and cults - but in essence this is what you have been doing over your past few messages (an example being the subject of evolution and morality).
This is why I say I hope you are reading my posts thoroughly, if you lose attention then I guess this is not an area for you.
You said:
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Well, your posts get kind of long and boring, so I do end up skimming.
Cannabis has been shown to lower the attention spans of smokers and effect memory and concentration maybe you should cut back on the weed?
(Im actually trying to make this more fun for your brain by changing colours and text size and fonts etc, I hope this helps.)
Im just giving examples of the kinds of questions which are never asked by evolutionists of themselves or even by creationists about their own beliefs.
The ignorance exists on both sides.
And you are free to disagree.
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Some front line views of the war against God.
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Cannabis has been shown to lower the attention spans of smokers and effect memory and concentration maybe you should cut back on the weed?
(Im actually trying to make this more fun for your brain by changing colours and text size and fonts etc, I hope this helps.)
Im just giving examples of the kinds of questions which are never asked by evolutionists of themselves or even by creationists about their own beliefs.
No offense but that's pretty desperate. To be honest your whole post is desperate. What examples - you don't have a clue what you are talking about.
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Evolutionists must realise the lack of evidence of what they talk about in terms of criticizing creationists, this leads me back to the original subject about teaching evolution in schools as oppose to creationism. As you know I still stand by my claims that children should be told of the lack of evidence, and the negative side of evolution, and also shown creationism/intelligent design as a viable reason for our coming of existence.
Oh man, stop - my sides are splitting.
There really is tons of evidence - from many fields - which consolidates evolution. You know this already, that's why you are trying so hard to argue against it.
You guys scare the shit out of me.
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You keep bringing up the question of morality. Why? Evolution doesn't tell us we are required to kill people weaker than ourselves, it tells us people weaker than ourselves are less likely to survive.
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Some front line views of the war against God.
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Originally Posted by Fallen_Icarus
If your brother was a more intelligent/stronger individual than you then eugenics tells me (which derives from evolution) that you are inferior, you are not needed on this earth so you will be killed.
This is obviously false. If we take this to the extreme, then only one person can be rated the "strongest" and all others should perish, thereby eliminating the species.
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Originally Posted by Fallen_Icarus
Your wasting valuable resources by existing (remember we are trying to improve humanity) - who needs disabled people? Who needs deaf people? Who needs any of these people?
Hawking is a man who is unable to take care of himself, but he is a brilliant mind. Do we "need" him? No, but he sure is nice to have around.
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Originally Posted by Fallen_Icarus
This is the thinking that evolution has given birth to.
No it hasn't.
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Originally Posted by Fallen_Icarus
If you believe in evolution and I asked you questions such as, do you think innocent people should be killed so that you can survive? You would have to answer yes to avoid contradiction.
No you don't. Most humans realize, perhaps on some innate level, that killing off our own has less value than helping each other survive. Most humans develop something called empathy that makes us feel awful about harming one another. Having someone physically weaker and less intelligent around myself has no bearing on my ability to survive. Why not keep them around?
I can use different colours, sizes and fonts as well, it's annoying.
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Some front line views of the war against God.
^^ Plus you never know when one of your "less than stellar" genetic friends might just have something really handy in their genes.
Selective mutation ~ genetic variation :thumbsup:
Evolution didn't give rise to Eugenics - Wankers did.
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Some front line views of the war against God.
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This is obviously false. If we take this to the extreme, then only one person can be rated the "strongest" and all others should perish, thereby eliminating the species.
Yes it is false, which is exactly my point, why you felt the need to quote and describe your own opinion of it being false I do not know.
That extreme you described could be used in the context of many theories if I took them to 'their extreme'. It doesnt matter, the fact remains that eugenics teaches these elements of selective breeding no matter what extreme you wish to take them to.
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Hawking is a man who is unable to take care of himself, but he is a brilliant mind. Do we "need" him? No, but he sure is nice to have around.
Yes eugenics does disregard disabled people as inferior, which in the case of stephen hawking simply is not true, disabled people ARE NOT INFERIOR which is my point, again you do not debunk my points only reinforce them.
Yes it has, much of the foundations of eugenics are derrived from extreme darwinistic teachings, or if you prefer to find me another origin please do so.
Nazi Germany based much of its movements with a darwinistic ideology of a superior race (this is darwinism).
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No you don't. Most humans realize, perhaps on some innate level, that killing off our own has less value than helping each other survive. Most humans develop something called empathy that makes us feel awful about harming one another. Having someone physically weaker and less intelligent around myself has no bearing on my ability to survive. Why not keep them around?
If you believed in evolution and you also disagree with random acts of violence, or a 'kill to survive' action of murder you would be in as much contradtion as me following chrstianity and saying praising jesus is stupid.
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Evolution didn't give rise to Eugenics - Wankers did.
Modern day eugenics which focuses upon the aspects which I have described above in previous posts was founded by Sir Francis Galton in 1865 - who was Charles Darwins half cousin.
Let me elaborate with an extract on actual eugenic theory and how it smacks of evolution and darwinistic elements.
"Eugenics is a social philosophy which advocates the improvement of human hereditary traits through various forms of intervention.[1] Throughout history, eugenics has been regarded by its various advocates as a social responsibility, an altruistic stance of a society, meant to create healthier and more intelligent people, to save resources, and lessen human suffering. More controversially, some, such as the Nazi regime in Germany, used eugenics as a pretext for racial discrimination.
Earlier proposed means of achieving these goals focused on selective breeding, while modern ones focus on prenatal testing and screening, genetic counseling, birth control, in vitro fertilization, and genetic engineering. Opponents argue that eugenics is immoral and is based on, or is itself, pseudoscience. Historically, eugenics has been used as a justification for coercive state-sponsored discrimination and human rights violations, such as forced sterilization of persons who are claimed to have genetic defects, the killing of the institutionalized population and, in some cases, outright genocide of races perceived as inferior or undesirable".
Again I do not speak of evolution being incorrect, I am just saying (I feel I am repeating myself for no reason) that there are certain elements which must be addressed about evolution in the classroom.
I wish people would actually stick to the subject of evolution in the classroom and not rant on about debate points between creationism and evolution.
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Oh man, stop - my sides are splitting.
There really is tons of evidence - from many fields - which consolidates evolution. You know this already, that's why you are trying so hard to argue against it.
You guys scare the shit out of me.
Can you prove we evolved from apes?
Wow, because seriously there are a ton of institutions who are offering millions to anyone who can prove evolution.
Which is why we have so many cases of 'fake missing links'.
I seriously do not trust the comments and intellect on this site when I have heard people say:
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"science deals with things we can see and observe, thats why evolution is in our classrooms"
To which I replied:
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"Have you ever seen an ape evolve into a man?"
hmm...
I understand that you wish to brandish me a creationist and shoot down creationism, then please do so, I am by no means a creationist or an evolutionist, both parties are lacking great deals of evidence.
I wont ever forget the evolutionist who said we have the same number of chromosomes as apes, which is a viable enough explanation as to why we got here as humans (that we evolved from these apes).
To which the creationist replied, well, I know something else which has the same number of chromosomes as humans and its tobacco.
The crowd applauded, the debate continued.
.....Oh and please do explain how evolving from rocks is a good enough explanation as to why we are here today (and dont hide behind your 4 billion years of evolution story).
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Some front line views of the war against God.
Oh and delta 9, you asked in your previous post for me to find you a website offering substantial amounts of money for people like you to prove evolution.
Creation Science Evangelism - Creation, Evolution, Dinosaurs, and the Bible.
Prove it. :thumbsup:
Its been up for nearly 20 years and nobody can prove it.
Its still going strong.
So there you are.
Remember, dont expect me to debate about evolution as if im some kind of creationist, if thats what your looking for here then you wont find it.
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Some front line views of the war against God.
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Originally Posted by Fallen_Icarus
Yes it has, much of the foundations of eugenics are derrived from extreme darwinistic teachings, or if you prefer to find me another origin please do so.
Nazi Germany based much of its movements with a darwinistic ideology of a superior race (this is darwinism).
Astrology is based upon the positions of the stars. Just because there is something wrong with astrology, that doesn't invalidate the position of the stars, only the assumptions or interpretations derived from them.
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If you believed in evolution and you also disagree with random acts of violence, or a 'kill to survive' action of murder you would be in as much contradtion as me following chrstianity and saying praising jesus is stupid.
Why is this? What if I view evolution simply as something that happens, and not something we are to persue? We do kill to survive, we kill many other animals and plants. We've set up a society that not everyone needs to be a hunter or a gatherer. The people collecting and hunting the food could simply not allow anyone else to get it, but then some of the other 6 billion people might realize this and kill the hunters (with more advanced weaponry), and hunt on their own. We've come to realize that the species can survive though sharing and diversity (ie: not killing each other). How does this conflict with evolution again?
And Dr. Dino... I'm off to a concert, but if no one else point out the many flaws of the contest design itself, I'll do so either tonight or tomorrow, without bringing up Dr Dino's moral character.
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Astrology is based upon the positions of the stars. Just because there is something wrong with astrology, that doesn't invalidate the position of the stars, only the assumptions or interpretations derived from them.
No its not because you are not in touch with the foundations of this debate and why I brought up the whole question of eugenics.
You are hijacking this thread.
My original reasons for bringing up eugenics was based around the fact that evolutionary thinking and doctrines which were created by the founder of evolution Charles Darwin gave birth to terrible atrocious ideologies SUCH AS eugenics.
These points in turn are not communicated effectively in the schooling system (which is the original topic - stick to it or leave this thread and create your own if you wish to debate evolution Vs creationism), the negative sides to evolution AND creationism must be addressed, unfortunately we give the children no choice - you cannot just rule out creationism and say we evolved from rocks because there is no evidence to support evolution anyway.
How on earth can you replace a theory which has no evidence to support it with another theory with no evidence and label the latter as truth?
Do you see the paradox evolutionists reside in now?
Atleast give them the option and hold creationism as a viable reason for existence.
You cannot whatsoever, any evolutionist cannot rule out intelligent design, this is something you will have to live with until you complete the endless task of trying to prove that we evolved from rocks, into aquatic organisms and so forth into apes and into humans.
Of course animals in their kingdom may evolve without taking into account the fact that the theory of evolution has created such terrible things in OUR societies and history.
This is why you have not realised the foundations of my points in this debate which did not concern you, you just jumped in uninvited as you always do.
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Why is this? What if I view evolution simply as something that happens, and not something we are to persue? We do kill to survive, we kill many other animals and plants. We've set up a society that not everyone needs to be a hunter or a gatherer. The people collecting and hunting the food could simply not allow anyone else to get it, but then some of the other 6 billion people might realize this and kill the hunters (with more advanced weaponry), and hunt on their own. We've come to realize that the species can survive though sharing and diversity (ie: not killing each other). How does this conflict with evolution again?
Again I must point out for the millionth time that your debates and points do nothing by exemplify the theory of evolution which itself has never been proven and along with an atheists perception of causes of existence.
You are free to believe, as creationists do in a theory which is based upon no evidence.
I have not once said that evolution is not true, yet if you wish to continue to categorize me into the segment of creationists then please do so, I am not one.
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And Dr. Dino... I'm off to a concert, but if no one else point out the many flaws of the contest design itself, I'll do so either tonight or tomorrow, without bringing up Dr Dino's moral character.
Again - why do you continually stray from points you cannot answer?
The man can be a rapist for all I care, he could be an inter dimensional alien being from mars with a wife and children on private health care with BUPA. It doesnt matter.
I didnt give that link to reccommend a speaker/author to you.
I did it because Delta 9 asked me to provide it for him as evidence, and yes I provided it. Which is more than what I can say for evolutionists and their evidence!:)
It doesnt matter who offers the reward, the most significant factor is that none of you atheistic evolutionists can answer to it.
And this is a reason why we should still give our children the option of choosing intelligent design above evolution.
Dont fool yourselves into thinking evolution and scientific study is 'above' religion.
I want everyone in here to - if they believe so much that their scientific athetistic study is above religion to read a book called "Science and Islam".
Like I said you may think your climbing the mountain of truth, yet when you reach the top a creationist COULD be sitting there.
Dont rule out creationism and think you are 'above' it because you watch Richard Dawkins videos on youtube, I know people - a profound amount of creationists who study science related subjects in masters and Degree level qualifications, they are all creationists.
Studying science for some of my friends brought them closer to religion, one friend in particular said science and islam do not contradict each other.
So I believe that children in the educational system should be given the option of creationism as it is still as viable a theory as evolution.
This is all im saying, I by no means intend to say evolution is entirely not true.
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Some front line views of the war against God.
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Originally Posted by Fallen_Icarus
No its not because you are not in touch with the foundations of this debate and why I brought up the whole question of eugenics.
You are hijacking this thread.
My original reasons for bringing up eugenics was based around the fact that evolutionary thinking and doctrines which were created by the founder of evolution Charles Darwin gave birth to terrible atrocious ideologies SUCH AS eugenics.
These points in turn are not communicated effectively in the schooling system (which is the original topic - stick to it or leave this thread and create your own if you wish to debate evolution Vs creationism), the negative sides to evolution AND creationism must be addressed, unfortunately we give the children no choice - you cannot just rule out creationism and say we evolved from rocks because there is no evidence to support evolution anyway.
How on earth can you replace a theory which has no evidence to support it with another theory with no evidence and label the latter as truth?
Do you see the paradox evolutionists reside in now?
Atleast give them the option and hold creationism as a viable reason for existence.
You cannot whatsoever, any evolutionist cannot rule out intelligent design, this is something you will have to live with until you complete the endless task of trying to prove that we evolved from rocks, into aquatic organisms and so forth into apes and into humans.
Of course animals in their kingdom may evolve without taking into account the fact that the theory of evolution has created such terrible things in OUR societies and history.
This is why you have not realised the foundations of my points in this debate which did not concern you, you just jumped in uninvited as you always do.
Again I must point out for the millionth time that your debates and points do nothing by exemplify the theory of evolution which itself has never been proven and along with an atheists perception of causes of existence.
You are free to believe, as creationists do in a theory which is based upon no evidence.
I have not once said that evolution is not true, yet if you wish to continue to categorize me into the segment of creationists then please do so, I am not one.
Again - why do you continually stray from points you cannot answer?
The man can be a rapist for all I care, he could be an inter dimensional alien being from mars with a wife and children on private health care with BUPA. It doesnt matter.
I didnt give that link to reccommend a speaker/author to you.
I did it because Delta 9 asked me to provide it for him as evidence, and yes I provided it. Which is more than what I can say for evolutionists and their evidence!:)
It doesnt matter who offers the reward, the most significant factor is that none of you atheistic evolutionists can answer to it.
And this is a reason why we should still give our children the option of choosing intelligent design above evolution.
Dont fool yourselves into thinking evolution and scientific study is 'above' religion.
I want everyone in here to - if they believe so much that their scientific athetistic study is above religion to read a book called "Science and Islam".
Like I said you may think your climbing the mountain of truth, yet when you reach the top a creationist COULD be sitting there.
Dont rule out creationism and think you are 'above' it because you watch Richard Dawkins videos on youtube, I know people - a profound amount of creationists who study science related subjects in masters and Degree level qualifications, they are all creationists.
Studying science for some of my friends brought them closer to religion, one friend in particular said science and islam do not contradict each other.
So I believe that children in the educational system should be given the option of creationism as it is still as viable a theory as evolution.
This is all im saying, I by no means intend to say evolution is entirely not true.
Damn, you just repeat yourself all the time. In every post.
Also, I think that you're just a troll, now that I think about it.
