Running a generator indoors...stealthily.

So it's fun to brainstorm and chat about hypothetical situations:)
(I assume this is the correct forum...as this is slightly more than a beginner subject???)

Lets assume Buddies house is already maxed out electrically and he wants to supplement his power supply. At the rates the Super Markets are selling tomatoes and cucumbers for these days...he would love to supply them with more. But doesn't have any outdoor greenhouse land use. But a noisy and smelly generator wouldn't go over very well if it were just sitting in the yard wailing and smoking away.

So Buddy says the other day..."Why couldn't a guy run a 6 up to maybe 12KW generator in a room in the basement of a house in a typical single family dwelling neighborhood and the neighbors be none the wiser?"

So he thinks about it for a bit (and some quick internet searching) and so far has come up with this rough rundown of the scenario.

#1: Noise.
It seems at first glance that noise control is a huge deal in many facets of our world. It is repeatedly claimed that a generator can be run to be no louder than an AC unit if the proper sound barrier techniques are applied. If that is true, how could this possibly be heard from outside of the home?

#2: (maybe this should have been #1 actually) Personal safety.
Carbon monoxide poisoning. It kills, and it can kill faster than many think. It's no joke.
So...maybe build a 100% hard sealed room (not a tent or plastic wrapped room). You could use plywood, but 5/8-3/4" MDF board would seal as well as add to sound suppression. What would be adequate ventilation?...maybe 800cfm out and 400cfm in? Run 24/7, always a vacuum on the room.
It's main purpose would be to prevent a carbon monoxide buildup and provide enough engine cooling. The air exchange would be enough for the engines own intake/exhaust...but both the air intake and exhaust to the engine itself could be plumbed outdoors as well. The engine exhaust would of course have a muffler or two for sound suppression.

#3: Engine exhaust odor.
There must be a carbon product for this type of application?

#4: Fuel use and unit longevity.
While this comes up as a factor one would have to consider when deciding whether to use a generator or not...it has little to do with where the unit is being operated.

I open this to discussion:smokin:

I found my Buddies suggestion interesting. Not only for it's boldness but also because I have never seen this particular application discussed.

Don't over look the fuel....if you go with gas or diesel your neighbors may question the constant supply of gas cans in and out of the house, if you go with natural gas it would most definitely spike that bill.

Now for the cost of the produce, when adding in the cost of a generator, stealth applications and fuel, how many tomatoes before the return on investment is worth while?

The only generator that is reasonably safe to run indoors is a LP one. Even that is pushing it, but you can use the exhaust which has high levels of CO2 to give your plants a boost.
Others are going to be a bitch to exhaust.
Why don't you look into adding a solar array to the roof?
The cost really outweighs the bennies IMO.

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Originally Posted by midlifecrisis

Don't over look the fuel....if you go with gas or diesel your neighbors may question the constant supply of gas cans in and out of the house, if you go with natural gas it would most definitely spike that bill.

Now for the cost of the produce, when adding in the cost of a generator, stealth applications and fuel, how many tomatoes before the return on investment is worth while?

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So lets assume Buddy owns a truck with a canopy or a van and has closed garage access. Stealth-1...neighbor-0

Cost vs reward...definitely not as nice as when you can just plug into the wall. I can give a quick cost rundown later when I have time, but for now, I can tell you that even running the least fuel efficient 3600rpm gasoline gen-set...profit can be had the very first run, worst case scenario you break even.

i cant see this being very efficient at all. Besides if you max out you electricity bill, that means your running atleast 4 1000wtt systems, so i dont know how stealthy this really will be. YOu can get away with it by just telling your elec. company your running a high wattage applience, they wont care either cause ur spending mad cash to them. they might even hook u up on a deal. Plus its cheaper then buyin gas every week.

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Originally Posted by JackdaWack

i cant see this being very efficient at all.

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Not as efficient as using the hydro supplied to the home...you are correct. But still profitable? Perhaps.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JackdaWack

Besides if you max out you electricity bill, that means your running atleast 4 1000wtt systems, so i dont know how stealthy this really will be.

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How is the stealthiness of an indoor generator set up related to the hydro bill of the home it may be in? There are many threads discussing how much power can be used and payed for thru the normal channels at homes or apartments or commercial shops etc...but the main gist of this thread is to discuss a hypothetical situation where one might want to add additional power via a generator within a typical residential residence. Many a home, if the entire basement square footage was dedicated to the endevour, could support a 20-30 1K show. The limiting factor? Power supply.

OK, super quick as I only have a few more minutes...here is an example of what a cheapish gas gen-set and a lot of gas would cost for one growing cycle of flower only. Why flower only? For simpleness of the math. We'll assume you preveg in a room run off the house power. We'll also assume room set up is over and above these figures.

I take a quick online peak and lets go with a Honda engine at least. These 3600rpm motors are not supposed to go for the long haul, but we should get one crop out of them? Now...lets say you do in fact only get one crop out of the gen-set and then just toss it. 1500.
That unit is a 6875W peak with a rated 5500W continuous. No matter what gen-set is used for continuous duty, an 80% load is considered max. But Honda gives us a fuel consumption usage for 50% load....so lets fire up 3 1K's and do the math. We'll be close enough for our purpose here.

.5gal of gasoline per hr running our 3000W.
.5 x 12hrs = 6gal per day
6gal x 56 days for an 8wk cycle = 336gal
336 x 3.78 = 1270ltrs
An average estimate of 1/ltr for regular gas = 1270

1270 in fuel expenses
250ish in oil for oil changes
1500 for the Gen

3020 total expenses for 56days

3000W = 3 bags for sure, 3.75 average no matter what, 4.5 if you're doing good and 6 if you're expert.

The super markets will pay 2000 for a nice big bag of peppers. Have you been into a Safeway recently? It's like 3 ea for a nice Bell Pepper.

So lets do some hypothetical math.
2000 x 3(min) = 6000 - 3020 = 2980
2000 x 6(max) = 12000 - 3020 = 8980

Is that^ by itself worth the hassle? Your call.
So lets figure that you already have the gen-set running and all is good. So why not run it 24 hrs? It runs 3K at once...which could be a 3 and 3 flip-flop. 6K total. Lets do the math.

Double the fuel - 2540
Double the oil - 500
Double the gen-sets - 3000

6040 total expenses for 56days

2000 x 6(min) = 12000 - 6040 = 5960
2000 x 12(max) = 24000 - 6040 = 17960

I think it is very possible in fact one of my friends ran a diesel 25kw gen for 2 years with 20 lights the gas bill was about $4000 a month. he had a van set up with a 500 gal gas tank inside of it another 500 gal tank inside the generater room and he would fill the van come home and pump the tank into the other. That was back about 2 years ago so the price has probaly went up some.