To sub or not to sub? That is the question.

Hi everyone,

First of all, a tremendous THANK YOU to the mods/posters that have made this forum a great resource throughout this process. My questions/concerns as follows:

I have a non-DOT pre-employment screening coming up this week. Likely on Wednesday (will have to take on Tuesday at the earliest and Thursday at the latest). Per the form I received, this will be an eCup drug screen (I got the initial letter last week but was able to push off til this week so got a peek at the form). Wednesday will mark the 24th day of no use for me...prior to that I was a semi-regular smoker (3-4 times per week, a bowl or two per day shared with friends). Not sure if it is helpful but I am 6'0" and 220-230 pounds...fairly stocky build...a beer gut but otherwise fairly muscular and not tremendously big.

I have been monitoring my progress with at-home kits with a 50 ng/mL cutoff for the past week. Last Monday (the 14th, 14th day of no use) I had a very, very faint line after testing the first void...there was certainly a line but I am considering it a fail given the extreme faintness. I tested myself using the first void for the rest of the week and was getting definite negatives, my last test being last Friday morning (the 19th, 19th day of no use) which was a definite negative. I will test again tomorrow AM to confirm with another brand of test, but at this point I think it's clear after 21 days of no use that I am under the 50 ng/mL threshhold. My questions, then are:

a) Is the eCup the same cutoff as the home tests? The eScreen website says that the cutoff is 50 ng/mL but want to confirm. A search tells me that Burnt Toast has said before that this is the case but just want to make certain for my own peace of mind.

b) For those that have been in this spot...assuming I pass again after the first void tomorrow morning would you go ahead and take the test au natural or substitute? I have a trusted, clean friend's urine lined up and also purchased a whizzinator just in case (which I have practiced with for several days and have no problems achieving temps on the temp strip readings of 96 degrees or so). If I went the sub route I would also dilute as a backup...I have b2 and have been taking creatine pills for the past two days in preparation. I would prefer to just go the light dilution route assuming I pass tomorrow but I can't deny the fact that getting the sure thing via successful sub would be a relief.

So...to sub or not to sub? Any advice from folks that are more experienced with this would be appreciated. Ill post an update tomorrow after I take another at home test.

The decision is easy. If you indeed have access to a clean persons sample, and if you have any lingering doubts about using your own urine, then go ahead and sub.

Thanks Burnt Toast. To update as promised...I passed again this morning using the first void of the day. I cross-checked the same sample using another brand of test and passed that as well.

I agree that subbing is probably the more direct route, however, this is the fourth test I have passed and am pretty sure I am clean (at least at the 50 ng/mL threshold). My concern comes from the fact that the testing center I will be going to also does tests for probationary purposes, so I'm worried that I'm going to get an over zealous test center employee who will want to observe as much as possible. I know they cant watch directly but I've heard of them asking you to keep the door open to the single-toilet bathroom while you test.

Is there any strategy to get the door closed and get more privacy in the event they want to keep the door open, or come into the room with me with their back turned, etc? I'd like to check the temp before I submit if I do sub.

I administer drug tests at my job(lame, I know). If there is a line, your good. Even if its faint, its a pass! They can give you all the dirty looks they want, but its a pass. keep drinking water(no Jameson night before test) and you should be good.
I would have to agree w/ Burnt toast, Ng levels are pretty universal.

I had to sub for a test and the lady CAME INTO THE BATHROOM W/ ME!! All that separated us was the metal partition for the toilet! I had a thick plastic bag w/ surgical tube setup. I popped that clip and had no problem getting everything out. passed w/ flying colors. If they insist on coming in, just tell them you cant pee with someone staring at your stuff! worked in the military for me. I think there is a medical term for it. they will allow you a certain amount of privacy. otherwise question his sexuality for wanting to stare at it!!

Passed again this AM, very distinct lines on two types of tests. This is the fourth straight first void test I've passed, using three separate brands of at-home tests.

Still, I'm gonna sub. I want the slam dunk. My question, then:

If for whatever reason I don't get a proper temperature (hasn't been a problem in my tests but still want to cover all bases) and I go to direct observation, am I going to have to drop my pants? In other words, at that point will they have me nude to a point where they will spot the whizzinator or do they just need to watch me pee through the fly of my pants (I could probably finagle my real whizzer around the whizzinator and get away with that).

Any help would be appreciated: I think if I didn't get a temp I would still pass on direct observation, but want to make sure the whizzinator wouldn't be spotted if that is the situation.

If proper protocols are followed in regards to D/O collections, the observer (who must be the same gender as the donor - no exceptions) must enter the restroom stall with the donor and directly watch the flow of urine exiting the body and into the sample cup. Its right then and there that any artificial delivery systems are spotted.

In observed DOT tests, the observer first instructs the donor to raise shirts and lower trousers and showing the observer, by turning around 360 degrees, that the donor is not possessing any artificial delivery devices. If a donor is caught with such a device, the observer informs the collector, who stops the collection and declare a "refusal to test".
This can also occur in some non-DOT situations as well.

Just practice and make the effort to keep the sample temp within proper range. Then you dont have to worry about the humiliation and dehumanization that surrounds collections and re-collections under D/O.