Don't vote NO on I-502

To all who have read the initiative, and been disappointed with DUI provisions, know that law enforcement still must bide by probable cause. A LEO can not force a marijuana test upon you without probable cause (NOT reasonable suspicion). To have probable cause that you are committing DUI; your vehicle must reek of weed (however that alone could not convict you), you must be visually impaired, or you must be noticeably driving recklessly or poorly. Be aware, the provisions explicitly exclude testing for the presence of marijuana metabolites, in pursuit of gathering evidence for a DUI charge. Furthermore, I am confident it would be very hard to convict a marijuana user of a DUI, even if you were guilty and high as a kite, there is little evidence marijuana impairs driving ability. A DUI charge should be able to be easily defeated, by a competent attorney, if you invest in your legal defense. If you are a legitimate serious chronic medical patient, you could easily mount a defense that you will ALWAYS have more than 5ng/l in your system. For you to actually get charged with a DUI the arresting officer would have to be corrupt and intentionally trying to cause you harm, and a corrupt police officer doesn't need this DUI provision to harass you, he has many tools in his belt.

This initiative is an important first step, even if it is badly structured. Many people are blowing the DUI provision out of proportion, claiming this was intentionally placed in the bill as way to harass marijuana users. If a LEO wanted to harass you, he would regardless. I hope no one on this forum votes No, as I fear public outrage is waning with the constant onslaught of bad press the medical community seems to be getting.

Let me hear what you think, do I have too much faith in the legislature? I just don't see this provision as being all that bad, I see it as being unenforceable.
Be realistic, it is unlikely we are going to get a perfect piece of legislature, this one ain't that bad, I say we take it.

This provision doesn't change anything, you can get charged with DUI tomorrow if an officer notices you're visibly high. This provision introduces no new law, driving under the influence of cannabis is already illegal, but it does shed more spotlight on the issue and therefore increase police awareness.
http://www.washingtondui.com/seattle...g-dui-attorney

by the way, the latest poll (June 19) shows 50% support, 37% oppose.. every vote counts guys.

Please read: NORML's Official Reply to 'Patients Against I-502'
NORMLââ?¬â?¢s Official Reply To ââ?¬Ë?Patients Against I-502ââ?¬â?¢ | NORML Blog, Marijuana Law Reform

We would urge those who support marijuana legalization, but oppose specific provision of I-502, to nonetheless support this initiative because of the importance of 1.) having one state actually approve legalization and confront the federal government on this issue, and 2.) stopping thousands of expensive and damaging arrests, prosecutions and incarcerations annually in WA for cannabis-related offenses, notably for simple possession.

For those who feel they cannot support the current initiative, because it is not perfect, we would hope they would step aside and take no public position, in order not to undermine what is an historic opportunity to end marijuana prohibition, by popular vote, under state law.

The 5ng/l means you are assummed guilty and must force you to prove your innocent. Why would we even want to go there? Another burden on a perfectly law abiding citizen. Virtually every MJ patient will be guilty of dui if they get behind the wheel of a vehicle. Cannabis is not alcohol. Levels of thc have to be very high to make you a serious threat on the roads.
I'm just against forcing more draconian laws on people who are just trying to treat their diseases. I know its not popular right now, but what really needs to happen was for people to have passed Doug Hiatts intiative from 2 years ago which would have removed the word cannabis from every law in the state. It doesn't need to be regulated any more than a tomato plant does.
But a lot of people get led to believe we need more laws instead of less laws. Its just not true. There's so many laws now that virtually everyone breaks a law every day. Thats no way to run a free and open society.
I said it when we first past our MMJ laws here in the state. That eventually capitalism would destroy the movement just like it destroys everything else it touches.
Billions and billions are made of off this plant every year and anyone that thinks big business isn't going to try and get oppresive laws passed to help them control their interests are just being naive.

I agree with you, I think this DUI provision is fucking ridiculous. However I can't see how they could possibly enforce it, many are echoing this same sentiment. If you're too stoned you've actually given a LEO probable cause, you shouldn't be driving anyway. If case you're unfamiliar how probable cause works in a traffic stop, in order to be stopped solely for that you must build up "points". Touching the center line is a point, swerving is a point, riding without headlights is 3 points. Once you reach a certain limit, you get pulled over. I really hope you're not so stoned, you're going to get pulled over. Let's say hell freezes over, and you get charged with a DUI for 13ng/L... fight it in court. I have heavy doubts an MMJ patient is actually going to get convicted by a jury, that's irrational, you'd always have THC in your blood.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sboman

I agree with you, I think this DUI provision is fucking ridiculous. However I can't see how they could possibly enforce it, many are echoing this same sentiment. If you're too stoned you've actually given a LEO probable cause, you shouldn't be driving anyway. If case you're unfamiliar how probable cause works in a traffic stop, in order to be stopped solely for that you must build up "points". Touching the center line is a point, swerving is a point, riding without headlights is 3 points. Once you reach a certain limit, you get pulled over. I really hope you're not so stoned, you're going to get pulled over. Let's say hell freezes over, and you get charged with a DUI for 13ng/L... fight it in court. I have heavy doubts an MMJ patient is actually going to get convicted by a jury, that's irrational, you'd always have THC in your blood.

---

"I smell pot".....probable cause. You show them your "legal" bag of weed....probable cause. You show them your medical cannabis card....probable cause. They can do this shit now, but now they have to prove you were actually impaired. Under I-502 they won't have to. Your blood will do that for them.

"Per se" means "in and of itself".....you are guilty if you have 5ng in your system....period...end of story. If you are under 21, you only need a trace amount in your system. That joint you smoked at a party last week is still hanging around in your blood for up to 30 days according to the latest studies. I'm absolutely unimpaired as I'm writing this, but, as a patient, I know I'm at more than 3 times the legal limit under I-502. This IS the "new prohibition". You can possess pot....as long as it's not in your blood system. And you will NEVER know how much is in your system at any point in time, but you'll think your safe because you know you're not impaired....until they haul you off to jail. You will have NO DEFENSE....not in front of a jury or anyone else. If it's in your blood....you're automatically guilty and can't argue that you weren't impaired with a per se limit. You're screwed. And that's what they want.

The Washington State Patrol has already requested an additional $2,000,000 for "training" their officers to handle all the new DUID cases, should I-502 pass. It's in the fiscal note that's attached to the initiative. Why do they need to spend all this money on "training" when they already know how to arrest impaired drivers? Simple....to train them to be able to defend all the new probable cause excuses that they'll be using on you when you go to court.

Steve Sarich
Spokesman
NO ON I-502 Committee

Hi Steve glad to see you here.
Yep just another draconian law among many that we can live without. I'm tired of making criminals out of people who have done nothing wrong.
Having sit on a couple juries I can tell you they are not as forgiving as you might think. The majority are retired people like myself that already have pre made up minds on a lot of these issues and assume your guilty before the trial even starts. I encourage you younger kids to do your jury duty and try to bring some fresh prospectives into these jury rooms. Its a slow boring process and you will be in and out of the courtroom quite a few times as the attorneys and judges confer on things the jury aren't allowed to hear. But you're kept reasonably comfortable and get a free meal out of the deal. Doesn't pay much but they pay enough to cover your trnsportation costs anyways. Everyone should do at least once to understand how the process works. I think all high school kids should be required to sit in on a court case just to understand how the process works.

I remember standing out in the cold last year working for signatures for this bill. Alot of elders wanted pot legalized. I was stunned the number of older people signing the petition. As a card holder, the bill is

pointless but for those without a green card its hope for them.

It's really pretty simple folks. If a med patient needs to renew their supply of medication after 502 passes, they can't drive to the State operated dispensary, pay $500 to $850 per oz for their meds (remember the 25% tax layers?) without being in violation of the existing law (caught or not). Guess what! They will buy from the nearest cartel or underground grower for less. Will they still be allowed to grow their own? Gray area!!! Keep the State out of this fiasco. They don't have a good track record of making things better. It's always about the money to them. Vote no and use the law to amend what we have already gained.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by killerweed420

It doesn't need to be regulated any more than a tomato plant does.....
That eventually capitalism would destroy the movement just like it destroys everything else it touches.

---

Tomato plants, tobacco, beer, and kids toys are all regulated and taxed.
Capitalism has allowed middle class people to be able to afford all of the above things.

The capitalist will destroy this 'movement' by making marijuana cheap and accessible to everyone....