Choosing Mothers from Two Strains

Hi everyone. I read a thread "Choosing a Mother" posted by oldmac but the thread was dated almost 3 years ago, so I figured I would post my questions in a separate thread.

About 45 days ago I planted 6 (out of 10) Feminized Liberty Haze seeds from Barney's Coffee Shop. About 2 weeks later I planted another 6 (out of 18) Regular Critical Mass (Mr. Nice) seeds.

I had organized the LH's in order originally from which of the seeds had stronger tap roots (mostly as an experiment). I continued labeling them in order of best size/fastest growing and kept 2 labeled for the strongest (1 and 2, respectively). The one that was doing the best is still far better than the others. It's got a very thick stem, short internode spacing, and generally just 'bushier'. It is also a tad taller than the others, but much more full. My runner up, however, has a nice thick stem and SUPER close internode spacing (damn near one on top of the other). But, it is no longer one of the largest - it is probably 25% shorter than #1. Some of this could be due to me having a deficiency on them at first, and then later burning them a tad bit (I've only done hydro up until now, so it was a learning curve) - but my #1 handled even that smoothly. My question is, given the choice between my #2 with the shortest internode spacing and another that is a bit taller but not as bushy with not as good of spacing - what would people pick? How important is the internode spacing?

As far as the CM's go, they are all gorgeous so far. No deficiency or burning, all relatively the same size so far but very bushy and thick foliage. Quite a bit different than the LH's, as they are all very neck-in-neck with each other. I only planted 6 of the 18 seeds because of space in my room and available light. I was hoping to spot some of the males by some growing taller, more spindly, etc - but so far the best guess is that I lucked out and they are all female (I will pull my hair out if they are all males). Only time will tell. With both strains, I picked the best looking seeds based off of size, hardness, and color. With the LH's, at least my one selected mother so far and my tentative runner up, I can see the pistils and know they are females. I'm hoping to be able to tell on the CM's soon.

My method for these is going to be not quite as thorough as I'd like, based off of time and my grow setup. I currently have 45 in veg and 40 in flower (Legal Medical Grower in my state). I select the the best 40 of veg to go into flower in case there are some runts, etc. Because of this, I was going to base the genetics almost solely off of veg growth and appearance. I have planned to keep 2 from each strain as a prospective mother. I will take approximately 10 clones from each, mark them, and run a cycle with them. Then I can see which mother of each strain is 'better'. I am somewhat hoping to have 2 good mothers of both just to make cloning very simple and able to keep the mothers fairly small.

Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated. Tips for selecting mothers would be awesome. In my experience, the height of a plant does not necessarily mean anything in regards to yield - especially because some strains can be flowered at 12" and more than triple in height. But I have noticed throughout the 2 years I've done this is that the stem thickness does seem to be a good overall quality indicator.

Thanks again, and sorry for the rambling!


.t2h

Hello take2hikes;

I have not been around here for awhile, but this AM for some reason I logged in and started going thru new posts, saw this thread. Since you haven't had any responces thought I'd give it a push start.:thumbsup:

First let me appoligize to you if you read thread thru that old thread of mine, it like most I started welcomed and encourgeged off topic subjects etc..........only because it seemed to be a rule here to stay on topic. Looking back at that old thread this morning did make me laugh. And so second, thanks for that t2h.

Selecting a mother is really based on what the grower wants; depending on style of grow, lights used, etc. But hopefully it includes also good representitive taste, effectiveness, structure, etc.

As to your question about the LH and internode spacing. IMHO the 25% shorter, stockier plant might hold more interest to me. That assumes that at finish they are equal in quality. One of the reasons in my selection process that I let a plant veg then flower to finish, with minimal interference from me, is to see how it reacts at those stages. You are correct about stem size, a thicker stem shows a heartier base plant...but a "perfect" plant with a weak genetic stem can be corrrected thru the use of silica.

Increased node spacing usually equals more branching and more bud sites. If you are used to growing 4' shrubs, then the opportunity exists to create a 3' bush with better density and possible better finished wgt.
But here is something else to consider, you can decrease (and increase) internode spacing thru the use of certian supplemental lighting.

Hope some others weigh in (?) with their thoughts about this. Thanks again take2hikes.

OM:cool:

oldmac,
Thanks for the reply! Coincidence for sure, especially since yours was the original post I had seen.

Your post answers quite a few of my questions. I have had plants as short as 3 feet and as tall as 8 so far, and surprisingly there has been not a lot of variance in harvest. Of course when I first started I had help setting up my room, and because of the problems it had and my lack of knowledge my first year was rough, but that is to be expected. In my preference if I could get 4-5 foot plants that yielded the same amount as an 8 footer and were easier to trim, that would be ideal :)

I am growing my Veg room under multiple T5 lights. My flower currently only has 6 1000 watt Raptor fixtures on digital ballasts. I am curious what supplemental lighting you were speaking of? When I re-do my room I plan on switching to the Gavita setup. After some research these have really caught my attention. Currently I am under my ideal lightning amount, but somehow pulling in pretty good amounts.

I have seen pictures of the Critical Mass that I am starting to grow and I see what looks to be untopped plants that have basically the entire stalk a bud, and about 4-6 branches that are all the same. Relatively NO small stuff. This was very exciting to me. For one, I've never done much un-topped, but I plan to experiment with these strains and see how they react. Initially though what I attributed to that one massive bud was short internode spacing. This could be wrong, but if you have any insight on that - it would be appreciated.

I'm generally going for the most weight. I have found that given that my conditions now are almost near perfect, the quality comes rather easily. Of course some strains and some variations will be better, but by a significant amount I am not sure.

If you have any experience with experimental topping, ie - not topping one, topping another, double topping a third, etc - and seeing how yield compares I would be greatly interested in that. I have not found anything in regard to this. When I do my own experiment I will probably post it, as when growing the same strain this info seems invaluable. I also am unsure to believe that some plants topped will produce more while another strain untopped will be better. Sure, strains are different - but this seems like a fundamental change that I'm not quite sure about.

Thanks! Look forward to conversing. If you have any grow journals on this or other forums, please send a link.


.t2h

Hey t2h,

I don't believe in coincidence...but that would take me OT to another plane. Actually I'm going to take a play from Weezard's book of good.

I have played the topping game, and it's real easy; if you want a bushy plant, top it early and often.
It's not exactly what I do, but it's a workable plan for a 3-4' bush plant indoors, working with HID lighting.

Maxium bud production is really all about the canopy. The more equal in height and the more densely the bud sites are in relationship to filling up the avaiable light.

(OK this is where I get labled an "internet heretic")

I believe that SOG is the most effiecent way to grow; small plants, continuous. My grows are based on growing single cola plants that finish abt 14-16" (some strains a little more/less). I believe in growing fast, time equals money especially indoors (electric). Plus all I want is the buds; the branches, leaves and stalk I'm going to throw away anyway. The only problem with SOG is plant count, those who think they are in a legal "med" state cannot take the chance on the shear number of plants....and any growing/flowering area exceding 3 sqft would probably be into federal proabition BTW. For those folks SCROG is the way to go, it just takes a bit longer.

Up till a year ago my personal grow was based on a highly modified GI Grow rotating garden. It produced 144 plants per run, hmmm that might be more then the fed's 99 count or not. The last few years I've built aeroponic and fog grow trays, called "fogfognugen". There is an album of it's construction located at ICmag, and I use the same name there. Sorry just don't know how to link it. Speaking of not being able to link......

.....there is another old thread here at Cdot called "aero/fog LED grow table" that shows the first experimental run useing one 4x4 tray (1/2 of fogfognugen) that gives an idea to the size plant and number, I did not fill it but each tray holds 138 plantlet sites. Currently there are 4 trays in production, with a tray finishing every 2 weeks.

I may build a "hobby" size 2x2 tray with abt 25 plant sites, just for shits and giggles. If I do it will probably be over at....(censorship may prevent me from saying, help someone). I'll figure a way to tell ya. Plus over there I have a few threads dealing with light, such as the supplemental stuff I mentioned.

OM :stoned:

Um,






Dr. Spooner's Heefer Raven?



Google Oldmac?


Google Weezard?


Co-inkydink?
Perhaps.
It is the stepchild of serendipity, yah? :D

Aloha, See ya at da Raven.

Weeze

Thanks for the reply! For some reason the email notification didn't work *boggles*.

I have read quite a bit regarding SOG and SCROG. Yes, those pesky 99 plant rules. Currently I have 40 in flower under only 6 1000 watt lights. A couple less than I'd like, but for now I'm making the most of it. I'm averaging a tad over 4oz/plant. This is suitable to me, and I think it would be a stretch to get anything over 5 per plant with my current lighting.

Topping always comes down to quantity it seems, but there is never a stead-fast rule. I have an inkling that if you grew only 2 plants under a single 1000 watt light it may be possible to get them to produce close to 1lbs dry off of each. Personally if I could grow 10 plants instead of 40 that would be great. Less heat, less nutrients, less space, less time. But, that is a big gamble to make as an experiment.

I am planning on growing 8 plants of these mothered strains. 1 set will be untopped, 1 will be topped a single time, 1 will be topped twice, etc. Then I will average each method and since they came from the same mother should give me a general idea as to which is 'better', or maybe that they are all the same and just vary in levels of trimming difficulty.

I'm going to attach a picture if I can, otherwise I will link to it. It is a picture of Critical Mass in a greenhouse grow directly from Mr. Nice seeds. These plants look like they are going to harvest quite a bit more than 4oz per plant. They look untopped and also appear to only have 4 or 5 branches aside from the main cola. I'm curious to get some peoples opinions. Do you think those are just 'naturally' grown without any pruning? To me it looks like a trimming dream come true.

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.t2h

P.S. OM, if possible you could probably PM me any info that may get censored?
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