Good article on Compassion Centers...Finally a patients perspective of CC's

Apparently, there are very few good appicants to choose from and some of them have found some clever ways to profit from MM even though its supposed to be not-fr-profit...lol Tell me what you think???

[align=center]R.I. compassion center proposals still come up short [/align]

Rhode Island compassion centers are supposed to be the â??New Age Pharmacy,â?� a place where patients could go to get pharmaceutical-grade medical marijuana without fear of getting robbed, both figuratively and literally.

The R.I. Department of Health is nearing a decision about these compassion centers, and I feel a discussion as to the actual strength of these applications from a patientâ??s perspective is justified.

I, like almost all patients in Rhode Island, agree with that woman who boldly said before a near-packed room of people at the last medical-marijuana hearing, â??Itâ??s not about what your name is, what you ran for, or any of that â?¦ itâ??s about us â?¦ the patients.â?� Sheâ??s right. Itâ??s all about discretion, efficiency, quality and safety. It is also about which applicants are capable of making their plans into viable businesses.

To date the discussion has centered around a â??whoâ??s who in Rhode Island.â?� Less face it, many people in todayâ??s age would agree that having celebrities or a group of politicians on your side is probably more of a burden than a benefit. As a patient in this program, I feel we are running out of time to evaluate the viability of these businesses.

With more than a decadeâ??s worth of experience writing and reviewing business plans, as well as ample experience as a patient [who suffers from a deteriorating hip condition], I reviewed these 18 applications (available at Home: Rhode Island Department of Health) and found most were incomplete or inaccurate with regard to their financials and some were just awful.

I first turned to the financials of these plans, when I could find them, since this is the quickest way to determine if someone can run a business. After all, if these are incorrect, what are the chances that the rest of the plan is going to be correct?

Unfortunately, many plans had tons of holes in them, specifically in how many patients they claimed the center could capture or how much it would cost to set up a top-quality growing facility. In addition the financials didnâ??t even show the basics. Very general, three-year roll up summaries are no substitute for month-by-month budgets, pro-forma profit-and-loss statements or and pro-forma cash flow statements. In the private market these would not be considered complete.

And some of the other assumptions were suspect as well. Thomas Slater anticipates spending $434,000, with a monstrous annual budget increase, for its security plan, with consultants from the infamous â??Blackwater Securityâ?� at the helm. This is not a strong selling point.

Some of the most thorough business plans, in my opinion, were Hope Apothecary, The Rhode Island Compassion Center, Thomas Slater, Greenleaf and Summit. Further, the assumptions many of these plans were based on were severely flawed. For example, Summit projected its market share at 8,000 patients by year three. Given that even in the highest growth times in the past year there have been no more than 100 new patients entering the program per month, 8,000 patients at Summit alone would likely equal more than 120 percent of the total patient population! This projection is not even close to realistic.

When I reviewed pricing, I was dismayed that most are higher than many patients currently pay. Most plans average prices are between $300 to $400 an ounce, with only a few lower. Rhode Island Compassion did not mention any price at all.

Greenleaf, for example, is charging $35-$55 for an eighth, which equates to $280 to $440 an ounce. Under its pricing-strategy section, Thomas Slater said that its â??pricing will be intentionally set at or above the midpoint of the scale locally, largely due to the higher quality of medicine it will offer to patients.â?�

I know for a fact that it doesnâ??t cost any more to grow different strains with regard to electricity and nutrient, so why are they charging more? And what is worse, its pricing is based on â??strain qualityâ?� versus financial capability. What this says is that those who canâ??t afford it can only get the â??low-qualityâ?� strains. CVS/pharmacy doesnâ??t distribute the lowest quality Vicodin to patients on Medicaid, does it?

One of the best plans with the lowest and most income-conscious discounts was Hope Apothecary, with a four-tiered, income-based pricing system and average price in years one and two at $200 and $158, with even deeper discounts in future years, as it should be, since the business will be growing as it gains more customers. And all this while having biopharmaceutical and cultivation experts on staff.

Additionally, I was shocked to realize how many of these applicants diluted their business focus to provide so many unnecessary services instead of focusing on just producing pharmaceutical-grade medical marijuana in the safest, most efficient and affordable manner. As with any business, success requires focus. How can they focus on producing and distributing medicine when they have so many other products and services to worry about?

Rhode Island Patient Advocacy Coalitionâ??s Executive Director Joanne Leppanen, who is supposed to be a voice of the patients, mainly endorsed compassion centers that offered more than just overpriced medicine. Greenleaf, for example, plans to offer hemp lines of clothing and paraphernalia. Another endorsee, the Thomas Slater Compassion Center, wants to offer services like yoga and Reike. Summit Medical Compassion Center, for example, even offered physicianâ??s injection therapies, surgery, not to mention plans that offered referrals to other physicians for â??furtherâ?� services. While some of those other options are great in theory, they are not needed where I get my medicine.

Diluting the business model with other services is misguided. Unless the services are free, many of these patients will not be able to afford them, as most can barely afford their medicine. If the services are free, then whereâ??s the money coming from and why donâ??t they just lower their prices rather than offer Reike? If the applicants really did their homework and surveyed the market, they would realize patients donâ??t want this other stuff. The bottom line is, we want a pharmacy, not a social center. It deserves the respect as such. You donâ??t see Yoga classes or massage therapy at CVS, do you?

Letâ??s take this opportunity to get it right and not repeat the nightmare scenarios of California or Colorado.

Lastly, from a business-ethics standpoint, I find it interesting to note that the coalition shares the same office building as one of the centers that Leppanen strongly endorsed, Thomas Slater. So much for being an advocate of the people. Hopefully the R.I. Department of Health will look out for patient interest more conscientiously when selecting their centers.

However, this is Rhode Island. Odds are the ones recommended by the coalition, who are selling the most expensive medicine and offer the most congressional letters of recommendation, will probably get the nod. But as a patient, I certainly hope this is not the case.

This article also seems biased, if the authorâ??s sole purpose were to inform he would not have tried to make any one application look better than the others do, he would have simply laid out all the facts and left the judgment to the reader. The author does bring up a few valid points, but... Personally I think compassion centers are more of a money maker for some big shot then a true "compassion" center, but there are people in the program now that do not have access to ANY medication, This might help a few people get small amounts of medicine. Which is better than no medicine

very biased, towards HOPE APOTHECARY ! LOL , did these guys pay for the advertising space!
Lots of misinformation too. For example about profit projections. The author can't understand why some have such high forcasts. Well if they researched, they would know. The projections are based on Montana's MM program . Similar sized state population as RI, once centers were opened there enrollment in the MM program sky rocketed. They also go on to say there has never been more then a 100 new patients a month in the RI program. Check the facts!!! Sept 10 , 2010 904 RI MM patients , Feb 2011 3,154. So in 6 months , that's about 2200 patients or about 350 a month. Closer to a 100 new patients a week!!!

Also offering other services is a way to give back to the community. If the author researched this he would see many of the leading centers in california do this. One of the best is Berkely Patients group- BPG - Services.

Also just cause one of the CC applicant's put there MM pricing low at $200 an ounce in their business plan means nothing! Once they open , ooops elec costs went up!! $400 an ounce!!!LOL! Honestly, I wanna know the quality of the meds these clowns wanna sell at the CC! That's the #1 most important thing! No one understands it either! Best business plan means nothing if your genetics and meds are inferior!

Actually better meds do sometimes cost more to produce. Many are low yielding or have very long flowering periods, or are slow to veg. Any of these would result in a higher cost.

My vote is toss em all and this article! :)

Patient counts in Montanaâ??s medical marijuana program surged by over 1000 cardholders in a month from December 2010 through January 2011, from 27,292 to 28,362. The number of registered growers grew as well, from 4,807 to 4,843 persons authorized to farm cannabis. The number of doctors with currently enrolled patients shrank by two.

Montana slightly smaller , with 1000 new patients in a month ! So in one month a similarly sized state as RI added 1/3 of RI current MM patients in a month!

:wtf:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by oceangrown

very biased, towards HOPE APOTHECARY ! LOL , did these guys pay for the advertising space!
Lots of misinformation too. For example about profit projections. The author can't understand why some have such high forcasts. Well if they researched, they would know. The projections are based on Montana's MM program . Similar sized state population as RI, once centers were opened there enrollment in the MM program sky rocketed. They also go on to say there has never been more then a 100 new patients a month in the RI program. Check the facts!!! Sept 10 , 2010 904 RI MM patients , Feb 2011 3,154. So in 6 months , that's about 2200 patients or about 350 a month. Closer to a 100 new patients a week!!!

Also offering other services is a way to give back to the community. If the author researched this he would see many of the leading centers in california do this. One of the best is Berkely Patients group- BPG - Services.

Also just cause one of the CC applicant's put there MM pricing low at $200 an ounce in their business plan means nothing! Once they open , ooops elec costs went up!! $400 an ounce!!!LOL! Honestly, I wanna know the quality of the meds these clowns wanna sell at the CC! That's the #1 most important thing! No one understands it either! Best business plan means nothing if your genetics and meds are inferior!

Actually better meds do sometimes cost more to produce. Many are low yielding or have very long flowering periods, or are slow to veg. Any of these would result in a higher cost.

My vote is toss em all and this article! :)

---

Good perspective but and it's true about the med's $200 pricing schedule, we've all seen it before. But, from what I saw, the article did lay out the facts, they just made Hope look really good... Did you really think the projections are solid when it went from applicant having almost $30M in annual sales to other having $3M. I too have read almost all of the applicants and see your point but I think you lost perspective. The article simply said, why were so many predicting such different number when none of them but a few showed how these numbers would come into fruition.

Now Montana, for one just had a motion pass to eliminate MM all together I believe, and they are about a year older than us and already well past us as far as size with some 28,000 or so patients. Were only 3,239 patients and 2,039 licensed caregivers and I know over hundred patients with a dozen horror stories about CG's so your circle may be tight and filled with cool people doin the good deed but the rest of RI is frick gettin its ass kicked...lmfao

Montana was and always has been larger and faster growing MM state than RI so I think the comparison is not a good one. And a very bad one to use for a comparison model (another point of the article) Can you really compare RI to any other state...lol Double our size in '09 and have exploded since. But dude, seriously, what an entirely different demographic/geographic market...ya think...lol

You don't see any I-Roc Z's unless it has bone cow head on the hood...lmfao:smokin:

And shit with Cali chargin 50 to 65 an 1/8th they better give me something free which is what the article was talkin about!!! These services cost something to someone and that someone is, and always has been, the consumer....YOU!!!! I'd much rather have cheaper med's the some stupid service the cheaper med's would allow me to buy:thumbsup: They are only offering them because they feel guilty as they peal out after work in their new Ferrari...

Hey, my CG charge me a flat rate for my med's, why can't the CC's... The reality is, more than half of RI's MM patients are on disability and are most likely in the most pain than the one's who can actually work and afford the better medicine...is this fair??? The bottom line is I was impressed with the fact that CC i the article that didn't get slammed figured out how to run a business model that allowed them to balance a budget well enough to offer such a program as flat rate med's.

The only typical reason any organization would implement a staggered system of payment for it's like goods is when a company is looking to profit... When your growing a few plant's the difference is substantial. When growing on a larger scale, not so much that it would cause an increase in the cost of med's by $20 an 1/8th... If that's the case, then you don't belong their as far as I am concerned and have no place running a business, let alone a CC...lol

You don't pay a different price for Thin Mints than you do for Carmel deLites now do you (well, that one box of Girl Scouts Cookies down...;) I can guarantee, they don't cost the same price to make either...lmfao

It kinda defeats the purpose of being a charitable institution if only those with mean continue to get a better quality of care than those without don't you think?

The one thing I do agree with you more than anything, and to use, I think we can all agree that if you can't get the best phenom's and best strain's, what's the point?:cool:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by theccman

:wtf:
Slightly one sided , wtf! Maybe medicated , but at least not delusional

Good perspective but and it's true about the med's $200 pricing schedule, we've all seen it before. But, from what I saw, the article did lay out the facts, they just made Hope look really good... Did you really think the projections are solid when it went from applicant having almost $30M in annual sales to other having $3M. I too have read almost all of the applicants and see your point but I think you lost perspective. The article simply said, why were so many predicting such different number when none of them but a few showed how these numbers would come into fruition.

Sure 3-30 mil is a huge swing! Maybe the 30 mil included extra services they would provide . ALso it would depend on if only 1 or 3 centers were opened . ALso maybe the 30 mil projection , was from an insider who new about the law to repeal patient/cg growing privileges

Now Montana, for one just had a motion pass to eliminate MM all together I believe, and they are about a year older than us and already well past us as far as size with some 28,000 or so patients. Were only 3,239 patients and 2,039 licensed caregivers and I know over hundred patients with a dozen horror stories about CG's so your circle may be tight and filled with cool people doin the good deed but the rest of RI is frick gettin its ass kicked...lmfao

How many wackjob/insane/selfish patients are there? Just taking advantage of the program? That are just reselling the med's or sharing with friends?? Just as many as wack CG's! Goes both ways!

Montana was and always has been larger and faster growing MM state than RI so I think the comparison is not a good one. And a very bad one to use for a comparison model (another point of the article) Can you really compare RI to any other state...lol Double our size in '09 and have exploded since. But dude, seriously, what an entirely different demographic/geographic market...ya think...lol

Actually Montana is the perfect comparison. Population sizes are the same. Also RI may actually grow faster. Marijuana consumption rates in RI are one of the highest in the USA. In fact higher then Montana!Marijuana Use in the Past Year (most recent) by state . A full 2% + more then Montana

You don't see any I-Roc Z's unless it has bone cow head on the hood...lmfao:smokin:
I bet you could in Exeter , Fouster/glouster or some swamp yankee with one!

And shit with Cali chargin 50 to 65 an 1/8th they better give me something free which is what the article was talkin about!!! These services cost something to someone and that someone is, and always has been, the consumer....YOU!!!! I'd much rather have cheaper med's the some stupid service the cheaper med's would allow me to buy:thumbsup: They are only offering them because they feel guilty as they peal out after work in their new Ferrari...

I would rather have other low cost options to treat my symptoms , then only MM. These guys are one of the best in cali , and they offer lots of other services . Welcome to BPG

Hey, my CG charge me a flat rate for my med's, why can't the CC's... The reality is, more than half of RI's MM patients are on disability and are most likely in the most pain than the one's who can actually work and afford the better medicine...is this fair??? The bottom line is I was impressed with the fact that CC i the article that didn't get slammed figured out how to run a business model that allowed them to balance a budget well enough to offer such a program as flat rate med's.

They will prob be offering flat rate mediocre meds. I can say in my plan I will offer meds at $25 an ounce. No one would hold me to charging that once I opened. When I open , oops , nutes and electric fees went up ! $400+ an oz!!

The only typical reason any organization would implement a staggered system of payment for it's like goods is when a company is looking to profit... When your growing a few plant's the difference is substantial. When growing on a larger scale, not so much that it would cause an increase in the cost of med's by $20 an 1/8th... If that's the case, then you don't belong their as far as I am concerned and have no place running a business, let alone a CC...lol
Staggered pricing is the way to go. The guy who make 200k a year , may not mind dropping $400+ for A+++ quality strains. The extra money could then go to further offset low income patients meds and services

You don't pay a different price for Thin Mints than you do for Carmel deLites now do you (well, that one box of Girl Scouts Cookies down...;) I can guarantee, they don't cost the same price to make either...lmfao
Different strains could have varying costs to produce meds. One strain may have a massive yeild , but low potency. Another may take 2x as long to veg , or may flower for 90 days instead of 60 days. All these factors would influence price.

It kinda defeats the purpose of being a charitable institution if only those with mean continue to get a better quality of care than those without don't you think?
Non-profit , is a charitable institution ? So a garden club with non-profit status is charitable institution? No one gave a shit ,that with my health insurance , i couldn't afford treatment. How can you pay a $500 deductible , when paying $200 a week for a family plan. Then want another $40 for a visit for PT , when you take home $400 a week? That's life , if your poor , you get shit on. Anyone hear think about the millions of starving poor in Africa this week? Of course not! They are poor and have no resources, so one cares...

The one thing I do agree with you more than anything, and to use, I think we can all agree that if you can't get the best phenom's and best strain's, what's the point?:cool:

---

At least we agree on that! I believe that to be the most important part of the plan. If you open a restaurant , have an amazing business, plan spend millions on the kitchen , decor and advertising. Then when you open , you serve the most horrible food. Does all the money and planning matter?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by oceangrown

At least we agree on that! I believe that to be the most important part of the plan. If you open a restaurant , have an amazing business, plan spend millions on the kitchen , decor and advertising. Then when you open , you serve the most horrible food. Does all the money and planning matter?

---

I hear ya brother... All that non-sense is not the most pressing issue. Having read almost all of the applicants, reading the articles about CC's I was pleased when a piece was written that didn't glorify the very CC's that got slammed.

Almost every article written in RI about the CC applicants has been painted into a rosey picture without talking about the two most important parts of the whole program...Quality & Price!!! The only applicant out of these mentioned that did not have a ton of political letters of recommendation, state or local cops involved was Hope! After reading the major contender, I agree with the writer, the plans are just odd. I don't care what your projections are, they just better make sense...

Not many of them did....even a novice banker will tell you to be conservative on your financial projects. I was once told by one who knows more about plans and finance than I that only an idiot assumes profit within the first 2 to 3 years regardless of what comparable markets dictate. If they put that in the plan, they immediately get sent to the trash can.

Why? Well, because it shows that they are too optimistic and unrealistic when determining market trends and you have predicted no problems throughout your start-up to growth period... If you ever owned a business, you'd know, there are always going to be problems and being a new company just makes it harder to adapt because you are new. So projecting profit and huge jumps in sales is crazy, espcially when you have more than half as many CG's as patients in RI...

Technically, the market is flooded with competition right now and will flux when the CC's open, but, at the prices they are projecting the CG's will have to offer cheaper med's in order to keep their patients. At the very least, the over priced CC's will create a more balance market which is what I'm prayin for...lol

Ironcially, if Hope did get the license, a lot of CG's are going to loose there license because not many CG's are charge less than 250 let alone 200...So, that is why Hope has my vote. Their projections were conservative and believable, the others, not so much. They focused on med and a pharmacy model. All the other want to offer (and some charged) additional services that would only serve as a distraction from getting me my top quality meds at prices I can afford!:hippy:

Seems your affiliated with Hope Apothecary or the author... You are an unpaid advertisement for HA it seems.
Only CG's to lose are gonna be all the clown's that moved hear just to grow , harvest pre-mature, and have no understanding of genetics. Like the cream of the crop, they (good CG) will all rise to the top.
Lots of patients will avoid CC's , just for the reason of privacy . If your a teacher, do you want a student seeing you in a CC? NO!
I wouldn't be conservative on any profit projection , this is marijuana. The USA's biggest cash crop!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by oceangrown

Seems your affiliated with Hope Apothecary or the author... You are an unpaid advertisement for HA it seems.
Only CG's to lose are gonna be all the clown's that moved hear just to grow , harvest pre-mature, and have no understanding of genetics. Like the cream of the crop, they (good CG) will all rise to the top.
Lots of patients will avoid CC's , just for the reason of privacy . If your a teacher, do you want a student seeing you in a CC? NO!
I wouldn't be conservative on any profit projection , this is marijuana. The USA's biggest cash crop!

---

First off, I am an honest man so even if I was affiliated with them, it wouldn't change my perspective seeing as I could completely dismantle everyone of your rebuttles because none of them have any facts to support'em. You claims are that of a child and only make you look small minded. Stick to advocating and let the business/marketig analysis to those that actually know what they are talking about.

Second, let me just get to the heart of why you are so wrong....lol

For as much as I would enjoy disecting every eroneous statement you made, I don't think I need to go farther as shedding some light onto the fact that you don't have the fogiest clue about either. So, I'll start with you claiming that Montana is a good comparrision. The only thing they have in common is population size...that's it. And if you think that makes it a comparable model, they you don't know squat about business, marketing or MM...

And, here's why!!!

1. Montana a dessert waste land with several patches of mountains, grasslands and forestry, commonly refered to as cowboy country because almost its entire demographic is cowboys. RI, is one of the most culturally diverse market places in America, well known throughout corporate america as a multing pot of diversity keen for market testing consumer products. Nothing like Montana here, and from a marketing perspective this point alone makes it a horrible comparable. Not to mention only a few CC's even used or mentioned Montana as a comparable where you implied that they all did which is insane because they all clearly did not if you read them...please stop talkin out your butt!

2. RI's program is completely different than Montana's! For instance, Montana(a)There is no process for caregiver registration besides having a new or existing patient name you as their caregiver No BCI here. (b) One CG per patient, (c) Then, after you are approved by the state and receive your medical card, you and your caregiver (if designated on the form) may each legally grow up to six plants, and possess up to one ounce of usable marijuana.

3. RI patients have more access to more plants (12) "Montana (6)", CG's (2) "Montana (1)", and can hold more MM at 2.5 oz's, per patine "Montana (1 oz.)", yet our program, who has fewer patients and is a little over 1/10th the size of Montana's program and it's only a year behind RI's and are comparable??? We don't even have a major MM competitor right next door, with amazingly lax legislation like Canada, whose been at this game a lot longer than the US.

With all of these variables taken into consideration the two states have about as much in common as bird to a cow...but hey they both breath air so we should treat them the same way...right...lmfao

The only other point which makes me said, but expresses my concern with your obvious know jack sqwat about non profits, mareting or starting a business. Why, becase a Garden Co-op is a charitable organization that creats affordable space for those who cannot afford to grow on their own. The whole reason the Fed's give these organizations tax-exempt status is to help off-set the organizations costs so they can provide resource to the poor who could not afford them otherwise. A 501(c)(3) is by law defined as a charitable organization...Einstien

Ironically, CC's are mathmatically predispostioned to provide better quality meds than any caregiver...another indisputable fact you and several other CG's will cry is wrong.

Let me get real with you for a moment since you are a little unfamiliar with reality...it's call math matical probability. A constant well known and prove. It states that you have a highner probabilyt at finding the best answer (in this case phenom) if you have more opportunities to succeed. In other words, CC's have a better shot at getting the best phenom because they can lay down a hundred seeds, offord to toss the inferrior phenom in favor of the best stains and experiment with a wider range of grow techniques than a CG's with a limited budget who can only lay down 12 at a time.... In other words, mass production has historically destroyed the lil guy...It's call the WalMart Effect. Besides as people not wanting to be seen, you obviously miss the 14 plans who said they would offer delivery!!!

So please, stick to advocating and backing a bunch of punks like the clowns at 1000W who have already made the RI MM society look like a bunch of childish idiots... Let me guess, you are affiliated with or one of them at 1000W is your CG....Sucks when someone says shit about you when they don't really know the truth, doesn't it!!!

If you wanna step up to the plate and take another swing at it, please make sure you actually know all of the supporting facts. Everyone has a theory, but delusion is a world which only those lost in their own BS belong.

When you can actually prove one of these crazy theories of yours, please post it. Until then, you just look like a know it all fire starter who doesn't belong in an analytical postion. Please, just make sure you've got you facts straight... Your gonna give this Forum a bad name, but, I guess you and the guys at 1000W are just do good at it, it makes it kinda hard to quite.

By the way, the second that "1000W" article hit the news, two competitors decided to sprout up!!! Unfortunately for your team, one of the actaully knows how to put out a quality magazine and not rip off articles from other publications because they have little to no talent of their own....Hey, I just said what other who come from a place of intellegence were thinking.....hahaha IT'S FUNNY BECAUSE IT'S TRU....LOL

Hello All,

By now everyone has heard about the Dept.'s decision to delay there decision on who they are going to award the licenses for the C.C.'s.
This is unacceptable! We are still holding the rally but now it is a protest. Pass on this info please. We need signs made stating, "Where's the compassion."
"How much longer are we going to wait." And things of that nature. The Protest for Compassion will still be at the Health Dept. Tuesday the 8th in providence at 10am-2pm and then from there we will march down to the state house to make our voices heard there. With the budget in all the headlines we the Rhode Island Medical Cannabis Community can not let our cause Go Unnoticed!
See you all there in the AM! If there are any questions please ask, when doing so hit the REPLY ALL button so that we don't ask the same questions twice. Thank you for all of your Community support.

Keep Tokken,
Diesel