Sprouting in coco?

Anyone here do that? For the past few months my regular plants have been in coco but today I decided to see what else I could do with it. I'll post pics soon as I get some sprouts. I have 3 different projects running with coco seedlings.

The first and second involves the conversion of a bubbler system to a bubbler/coco ??? system. All I did was fill my 2" pots with coco and under the pots will be my res with bubbling water. I figure the water bubbles will burst up and soak the bottom inch or so of the pots. The water will likely wick up as needed. Not sure how this one will play out but I have done two things with it. The first was stick a seed right the fuck down into the middle of 2 different pots, just to see if I could sprout in this system. I have also stuck a clone into one of the pots to see how that works. I typically use this system without the coco to clone with but it can be a finicky bitch sometimes. I'm thinking the coco will help things a lot.

The third experiment is much the same as the second. I started with a plate that I used to use for sprouting using the paper towel method. I have lost some good seeds using this method so I wanted try another way that might not be so finicky either. I piled onto the plate about 1/2" deep of coco and created a nice little patty if you will. In this system I have 5 Pure Afghani seeds. I have a clear plastic dome if you will that I use to cover my plate. I think the coco aught to hold water much more effectively then a power towel will.

I can say this much for my experiments: they are all shit. Coco is not at all that great for creating roots. I believe there must be some plant science involved here that I am only just now grasping. My theory is because coco is so very good at holding moisture, the sprouts or cuttings have no reason to grow new roots since whatever roots they do have is obviously enough to allow for a constant supply of water. I have been afraid to to let the coco dry out in each of my experiments but I am almost wondering now if that's not exactly what I should be doing. This would force the plant to seek new water and thus grow new roots. I'm thinking coco in general is not what I need to be using at the begging stages of growth. I have been using it with some more mature clones that are vegging and they too seem to be held back slightly because of root growth. I think their beginning to over catch up at this point, but I'm pretty sure I could root faster in another medium. At least for the first month or so of vegging. Then transplant to coco for the final week of veg and then off to flower.

Also, I'm finding the coco I used, to be too fine. Apparently the premium type coco is not all that great for hydroponic situations. The coco begins to pack, not nearly as badly as dirt, but because it does this, it tends to hold water too long for recirculating systems. I believe the finer coco should be used in replace of soil, but it shouldn't have replaced my hydroton. I think I needed to get the husks or chunks if you will, which are a large particle and tend to dry out much quicker, thus allowing for faster cycles.

The spouts all seem to be taking their sweet ass time growing because literally the coco bed I made for them never drys out, not enough anyway to encourage root growth. Bummer.

FWIW...I pop seeds out of coco, once the taproot show itself, they go into my coco. I have used this method for over a year with great results and root structure.

Things I might be doing differently than you: I don't feed until they are above the coco line for a week or two. This way, letting the coco dry a bit isn't very dangerous. I also use beer cups for the first two weeks...not a bed. Also, I use Botanicare Moisture formula coco. Maybe a different consistency than what you're using? Most likely.

Not sure if this helps or not, just wanted to lay out some info for ya. Except for germination, I'm in coco the whole time and have great root devlopment. I have read that letting coco dry out (A BIT) for seedlings is ideal.

I nearly lost a sprout today from frustration with this damn coco. I decided that since I already have a ton and half of hydroton that I was about to throw out I would do an another experiment. I have been reading about similar problems from others and all the solutions entail breaking up the coco into larger chunks. It was suggested mixing hydroton and coco together was a winner of a combo so I went ahead and tried it. During the transplant I learned what my problems have been.

I discovered that nearly all my clones which had some root development to begin with, hadn't really grown that many new roots after being moved into coco. At least in certain pots I would soon discover. In the pots where the plants were smaller I learned that only a couple of roots developed throughout the length of the pot, my guess is to follow drainage, but then right below the main shaft was a highly dense and nicely developed root ball. A small root ball with long tap root tails. Very odd. At the tops of the coco layer it was dryer and slightly warmer which as I understand it, is exactly why coco is so ideal, and then as I approached that root ball it became a garden of eden if you will. I mean seriously, it was cool, moist, lovely all around. I think the problem is that it's too nice in there. Why do they need to search for a new water source or food source when it's so darn lovely right here in the middle all the time.

I think my pots were too big given the root development at that time. I would later discover that those plants that already had a bigger root structure before going into the coco, wound up with nicely developed roots, through out the pot. Bottom line, I think there is an appropriate pot size to use for plant size. Put another way, you wont get root development by sticking clones in large pots. They need to be small pots and they need to be able to dry out reasonably quick. As the plants get bigger, then use bigger pots and thus more coco. It's weird but if there is too much coco compared to the amount of roots, then it like creates too much insulation or something.

Maybe I am doing something differently then most. I have two pot sizes, a 6 and 8" square. Both hold so much coco that given my environment they don't dry out for days. I think that could be one benefit of coco for sure, the ability to hold water for long periods of time. However, if your not growing mothers, or growing out doors, then I'm wondering if less coco isn't better for vegging and flowering. Don't we want as many flood cycles as possible? Coco is supposed to be so good as flushing away old water and replacing with clean during the cycles, but if my damn pots never dry out then I don't get to flood.

One of my experiments involves a 2" net cup filled with coco and I use a bubbler underneath as a way to soak the coco. I started doing it 6 times a day for 15 minutes, then 4 times and now 1 time. Still that freaking coco is so wet all the time that neither the sprout or the clone or the seed that I have in that system are willing to grow roots. Am I using too fine of a coco perhaps for my hydroponic tendencies? Is it possible that the finer coco is really more for the soil type grower? In my plate experiment I have a pile of coco with a few seeds sticking in the middle. That coco too never drys out and tend to pack. I started running a stick through it to kind of break it up better and although it makes me feel better, I have yet to see a difference.

As of now I have all of my plants, clones, veggers and sprouts in a mix of hydroton and coco. If I understand the concept correctly, by creating cavities and whatnot inside the container using the mix, then the coco wont pack as easily, allowing for more air flow, dry out quicker and thus faster root development. I believe that unless your coco is capable of drying out, to what extent yet I don't know, but until it does dry out, I don't think you get good root stimulation. Finer grade coco's pack too easily for recirculating systems. I need bigger chunks I think. Not as big as hydroton though, I think that's too big. If the chunks get too big then wouldn't that defeat the whole insulating, piece of coco?

this might be of some help?

I use MG moisture control soil mixed with perlite in my 16 oz cups to germinate seeds, directly. It has a small amount of coco coir mixed in at the factory.

I noticed if the new taproot get tangled in the coco...it's fucked....:cool:

I don't know what you can do with this info?...but, there it is....:stoned:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dutch Pimp

this might be of some help?

I use MG moisture control soil mixed with perlite in my 16 oz cups to germinate seeds, directly. It has a small amount of coco coir mixed in at the factory.

I noticed if the new taproot get tangled in the coco...it's fucked....:cool:

I don't know what you can do with this info?...but, there it is....:stoned:

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I wont make you read through my entire post, but I have noticed similar things. If the roots discover the perfect zone created inside coco, then they give up. They make little effort to grow roots it seems.

Today was an even worse day on the experiments. I did source coco croutons today so that was good. I may end up going that route with perhaps fine coco mixed in. My problems seem to be with either over watering or under watering. I cant seem to find that balance. Keep in mind I am referring to a recirculating system and not hand watering. Currently I am using 2" pots with a hydroton/coco mix. I decided tonight to quit playing around so I started weighing the pots and setting timers. I intend to see just how long it takes to drain some of these pots. I was trying to avoid this kind of activity.