What now???

A few weeks back I built a pure fog system. Plz no suggestions about switching to a new method. I have my reasons for doing fog. At any rate, about 4 days ago I dialed in the system and was getting really good growth and nice green leaves. 3 days ago I decided that the water was too dirty and that I should probably lower the ppm's in the water anyway, so I changed it out. I believe I took too long on the water change which was probably in the neighborhood of an hour. I wasn't careful enough with the bottoms of the cups as I ended up brushing some of the roots which caused several of them to start to brown and shrivel up. I have been having problems with root development but that is in the past. The roots are developing nicely in mass and they are hairy and white. At the time I changed the water I also lowered the light hood which I also believe was a mistake. After a few hours the leaves looked even worse. I think the light was too low at only a few inches off the top of the canopy. I just read that for a 600 mh light I should be about 18 to 24 inches away from the tops. That's been fixed.

There are other things I did wrong I'm sure but I will post a few of my activities over the past few days in hopes of someone spotting something:

1) changed water and left plants out of fog for an hour
2) lowered ppm's to around 400 to 425 from about 550 to 600 previously. My water source is 225 right out of the gate. I will eventually install a water filter at my source.
3) lowered 600 mh light from around 2 feet to about 4 inches from top which then caused the heat to rise to about 84 degrees before I finally had enough and raised light to 20" from top of canopy.
4) installed a new fan today to help lower temps which is just blowing across the top of the canopy.

Current measurements:
425 ppm
5.8 ph
83f water reservoir
79f plants
600mh 18/6 cycle now sitting at 20 inches above canopy
30ml in a 15 gallon res of root hormone
Fog timer set to 90 seconds on, about 5 minutes off. I continue to worry about not giving them enough moisture. The drooping leaves would indicate not enough water wouldn't it or too much light/heat?

Something to keep in mind is that what you see in the pics has been caused by many different mistakes on my part. I know leaves are falling off the bottom but don't use that as part of your diagnosis. I know that I likely burned them as well with too much fert in the begging, but what I don't know is whether I am continuing to burn them, or are the leaves just showing scars from the damage I caused earlier? About a week ago I had the light pretty high and was under the impression that I should be lowering it every couple days until it's a few inches above the canopy. Is it possible that my current issues are from me lowering the light too much? Given that the light is in the right place, assuming 18 to 24 inches is correct, will the leaves return to full green or will they stay yellowish? What else can I do here? Lower ppm's to 300 maybe and for how long?

Your ppm's are to high, I have hard water about 250ppm and mine show similar issues in the seedling stage but not as bad. Your ppms should be around 200 or lower before the cotyledons start to fade. Once the leaves show signs of burn of discoloration they will not turn green again unless the cells are still living. Unfortunately u picked a very advanced growing method, and it takes advanced knowledge for it to work properly. It's a trial and error process with fog along with proven methods of use. You cant just guess the ppms and have it run every so often and expect good results.

I dont know what your reasons for using the method are im no judge or anything but personally u picked the hardest way to grow that allows minimal room for error. An aero system would have been much better in your case to work yourself into fog techniques. Doing fog for your first grow or for a beginner is like jumping in the deep end and you havnt a clue how to swim. It's a fun idea to do the best way of growing, but it means nothing in the end when the results are crap. But hopefully u can pick up the pieces and get this to work. I know if u can do this trial run and get all the kinks worked out, the next will be better and so on.

I do believe most people use two foggers one for plain water and one for nutes, that solves the roots drying up problem and over fert. The thing with fog is u havnt realized is that PPM's play a role and also how often they get fed, because they will just keep sucking up nutes at a high rate in fog, unlike other methods where the roots take time to suck up the nutes.

Where have you been getting all of your information and procedures for running a fog system?

I have read an awful lot about fog growing and I have not once heard of a two fogger system. Tell me more.

On the ppm's: Are you saying the source water is too hard? Would I be better to run plain water for now at 225 - 250, or go buy a water filter and then use ferts to get it to 225 - 250? What ppm's should I be running at anyway, my guess would be 200 to 250? I originally started at 800 sense that is what I was told at the hydro store. Every week I learn something new about this or that and I bring down the ppm's. If there was one person whom I trusted about fog I would listen to every word, but nobody I know does fog. My local hyrdo supplier tells me to stay away from the boards and the boards tell me to stay away from the store.

I don't have a problem keeping the environmental conditions absolutely perfect and I have faith that my setup will produce exceptional results, however it seems I am on my own for this grow. I have yet to see a grow log conducted with fog. If I had timer settings, ppm & ph levels I would have no problem implementing it, but alas I still search.

As to why I am doing fog: it's just a hobby. I have enjoyed every minute of this process from start to end. And I definitely agree that my second try will be better then my first, but I ask for a hobby or sport where this isn't the case already.

My wife says I need to just go buy some water for now instead of getting a filter, so that is what I will do tonight. I am bringing my tds meter to test the water before I purchase. I recall that certain waters are better but cant remember which one to get. Was it distilled as opposed to spring or local filtered?

Well i surely dont know a whole lot about fog. Your ppms should be low until you get some good growth mass developing(like i said before 250 in enough to burn mine). Fog also utilizes the fact u dont need as much nutes, so u might want to shoot all the way down to 200ppm's for now. U can get distilled water at the store for about 1.50 a gallon, add half cal/mag, half nutes desired 200ppms. An idea might be to run a seperate drip system instead of a 2nd fogger, i know they use them becuase there a dry and wet type there called fogfognugen or something like that, i havnt a clue how its done or set up. However, like i was saying, u can run a drip system every hour to keep the roots satisfied and not dry, with fog, doing more cycles per hour wont help. That would be my initial plan to fix the issue, that or an ebb and flow, what ever seems easier for you.

Nutramist -- RETROFITTING - some more reading :thumbsup:


It you dont have calmag i would get just regular poland spring or something, there about 50ppms, distilled should be 0ppms. But remember ur going to need cal/mag if u go this route. what are your ppms out of the house water?

Fogponics.com as well as here and a few other sources. There are a few attempts at grow logs here but they are incomplete as well as hybrid systems. The most crucial piece of information that I have yet to get from anyone consistently is how much fog do I feed them? I have heard dozens of different views on this. Another piece of missing info is exactly what level ppm's to maintain.

The best explination i can find on the internet is to use less nutes then with a normal application becuase the roots become more efficient at absorption. I would say run the fog for 15min every hour, drop your ppms for sure tho.

That's a good article, thanks. I am still reading it, but it does reinforce some of the opinions I have thus far about fog. First off, the method I am using at the stage I am in the grow, many people use as a separate cloning machine. I have read dozens of grow logs where people have set up cloning machines to populate their gardens and they use single chamber fog systems to do it. Much further in the process then I appear to be now, these machines work flawlessly. Where many people disagree about fog is in the later stages of development, but I have that covered. My problems are likely to do with the water source. I have from day one used water that was 225 to 250 and from there have added various levels of nutes. I need to get drastic and come up with another water source.

Best IDEA!!! you have really good water like me then. Go get some distilled water or anything that is bottle that has a low ppm like spring water and just mix one gal with one gal. You will have good minerals from your house water and then u can dilute it so the plants dont burn or have nute lock out. Once they get bigger u can forget about diluting it as the plants will enjoy all those minerals. The fog timing isnt that big of an issue as long as the ppms are inn range with plant growth. To get an idea of where your ppms should be i would take what a normal hydro system uses and cut it in half and up it periodically. So seedlings normally would be about 150, u would want about 75. 2nd week about 250, 125 for fog, 3rd week about 400, 200 for fog, and so on. I would start at 100ppms for now, the plants wont hurt but they wont grow to fast and bring up the ppms each week a little. a good indication u where the ppms should be a little browning of the tips tells u to back off.