My First Grow: Aeroponics, LED veg, Super HPS flower, CO2 sealed room
Procyon LED veg, Super HPS Flower, Aeroponic, General Hydroponics, CO2
Strains: Cinderella 99, Apollo 11, Blue Apollo, Sugar Blossoms, Sugar Berry, DJ Short's Blueberry (F2 from Joey Weed), C99 X A11, C99 X BB
All plants have been grown from seed and a mother will be selected for each strain, except for Cinderella 99 which will have 2 mother plants for the different phenotypes: grapefruit & pineapple. I plan on flowering & harvesting all other female plants that are not selected to be mothers.
For cloning, vegging & flowering I'm using Stinkbud's aero units, 4 flower units. The mothers will be maintained in a dutch bucket system. All systems have been self made.
This grow has been staggered into 3 groups - Group 1 being the oldest, group 2 the second oldest and group 3 the youngest.
Group 1 Strains: Cinderella 99
Group 2 Strains: Cinderella 99, C99 X A11, C99 X BB
Group 3 Strains: Apollo 11, Blue Apollo, Sugar Blossoms, Blueberry (DJ Short F2 via Joey Weed), Sugar Berry
Nutrients: Fed at half strength for vegetation under the LEDs & increased to full for flowering under 2 1000W Solarmax Super HPS using sealed, vented Magnum xxxl hoods.
General Hydroponics:
FloraGro
FloraMicro
FloraBloom
Diamond Nectar
Floralicious Plus
FloraNectar (Pineapple Rush!, FruitnFusion)
FloraBlend
Kool Bloom (Liquid)
Kool Bloom (Dry)
Subculture B
Subculture M
FloraKleen
FloraShield (as a problem fixer, not a mainstay)
& Botanicare CalMag Plus in case of Magnesium Deficiency
The desired end result is the cultivation of mothers from each strain and the creation of a perpetual harvest - every 2-3 weeks.
More info and pictures to follow
My First Grow: Aeroponics, LED veg, Super HPS flower, CO2 sealed room
History up to present date:
6/26/2009: Germed 10 Cinderella 99 seeds (Group 1) using the paper towel method and a heating mat set to 80 F. Seeds were soaked in tap water for 24 hours previous to placements in the papertowels.
All seeds germed in under a week and were placed in rockwool cubes soaked in PH 5.5 water and placed under regular fluorescent lights.
Seedlings were watered about every other day for three weeks with PH adjusted 5.8 tap water with a fan blowing on them to strengthen stems.
Three weeks after germination the seedlings were placed in dutch buckets in two rows of 5 filled with hydroton and placed under a Procyon light. Nutrients were given at 1/2 strength. Plants began to show nutrient burn so the solution was cut back to 1/8 strength. It was gradually increased over the course of the next few weeks to 1/2 strength where it is as of this writing.
Group 1 was cloned for sex on 9/2/09 when they were 2 months old (8 weeks, 5 days). Two cuttings were taken from each plant and they were placed in the aerocloner unit under a row of 4 T5's set to 12/12 and placed about an inch away from the tops.
9/11/09 plants showed sex. 5 were female, 5 male. Of the females 2 stood out as stronger than the others. Cinderella 99 produces 2 phenotypes, a stockier bushier Pineapple phenotype and a longer, lankier Grapefruit pheno. The two strongest females were representative of each type (one pineapple, one grapefruit). I'm not 100% certain but the smoke report will tell. These two will likely be the mother plants for C99.
*Pictures to be added when able
My First Grow: Aeroponics, LED veg, Super HPS flower, CO2 sealed room
My First Grow: Aeroponics, LED veg, Super HPS flower, CO2 sealed room
Group 2's strains are the remaining C99, C99 X A11 (Apollo 11), and C99 X BB (Blueberry)
Currently, they're in a 14 unit flowering aero/NFT chamber and I'm waiting for clones I've taken from some of them to show sex.
7/20/09: Seedlings germed and transplanted into conditioned rockwool cubes and placed under a fluorescent light. C99 X A11 had a germ rate pf 50%, C99: 90%, C99 X BB, 90%. Seedlings were fed PH adjusted (5.8) water for two weeks, but started to show signs of yellowing leaves far more drastically than the plants in Group 1 did so I introduced a light seedling mixture (as per General Hydroponics' online nutrient calculator: GENERAL HYDROPONICS) in the 3rd week. With the exception of adding nutrients in the 3rd week, seedlings were treated the same and subjected to the same conditions and environment as Group 1.
I have heard C99 takes up quite a bit of Magnesium and I've also heard that General Hydroponics is slightly deficient in Magnesium, hence my purchase of the CalMag+ which I've yet to use. My tap water also has a low PPM of 90 which makes me think I may have Magnesium issues in the future when the plants will be taking up more nutrients as they flower - I just hope I can spot it. Perhaps this early sign at 3 weeks of needing nutrients was due to the Magnesium issue, I'm not sure. I don't think the plants were overly weakened by it.
8/10/09: Plants now 3 weeks old and past the seedling stage. Plants were moved into 2" net pots and placed in 2 aeroponic flower units and situated under a Procyon. They were started on 1/4 strength mild growth solution of nutrients (again, as per the instructions from GH's nutrient calculator) - they handled it better than Group 1 which showed some mild nutrient tip burn/leaf edge curling and had to be titrated back all the way to 1/8 strength growth solution and kept there for quite a few weeks. Group 2 showed none of that and grew vigorously. After a week the solution was changed from 1/4 strength mild growth to 1/2 strength regular growth solution again as per the nutrient calculator. No bad reaction. The plants grew very well.
In the aero unit, the plants were put on a cycle timer which ultimately was set to pump nutrient solution for 1 minute and to switch off for 5 minutes before resuming for another cycle of 1 on and 5 off to run in this pattern continuously. In the early stages I was a little unnecessarily over-protective and ran the timer at varying times with longer periods off and shorter ones on, gradually working up to 1 on/ 5 off over the course of a month, until lots of roots showed. I did this because was afraid of saturating the rockwool and drowning the plants. I also put coco liner in the net pots to help act as a barrier and help prevent over-saturation. As you'll see later on with Group 3, this was totally unnecessary and, I think, may have slowed root/plant growth, but not in a way that caused permanent damage, just in a way that caused me some extra stress & worry. Group 3 were put on a 1 min ON/ 5 min OFF immediately and showed no adverse effects - I think they grew faster than Group 2 did during the time I had them on a longer dry out/ shorter watering schedule.
I should note here that in the following weeks plants really started to distinguish themselves. Those that were healthy & strong grew healthier & stronger whereas the weaker plants mostly fell to the wayside. I noticed this with Group 1, but having more plants this time around really brought the point across. I understand why it is generally recommended to pick only a few plants and focus on them. In general, the C99 X A11 seems to be the most sensitive of the three to changes with the C99 X BB the darkest & hardiest (and the one with the most scent - although none of these are high odor). C99 X BB produced a smell in the room which caused me to buy some ONA; before, with Group 1 there was no smell. The ONA cleared up the situation.
These pics were taken standing in front of the reservoir (see Key in following post):
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/a...trong-ones.jpghttp://boards.cannabis.com/members/a...-reservoir.jpghttp://boards.cannabis.com/members/a...ks-day-old.jpg
8/22/09: As I mentioned before, the plants that were strongest really started to stick out so I weeded out the ones that looked weakest leaving me with 4 C99 X A11, 7 C99, and 8 C99 X BB.
The plants were moved into a vegetation unit for logistical & space reasons. Group 2 is now 31 days old (4 weeks, 3 days).
9/11/09: Group 2 was moved from it's Veg unit into a Flower Unit & thinned further. The final tally being 4 C99 X A11, 7 C99 X BB and 3 C99 (less one more just recently as it was a male). Group 2 now 7 weeks and 4 days old (35 days total).
9/17/09: All plants that I was able to take a cutting from were cloned for sex. 2 cuttings were taken from each plant as usual. The cloning process was the same as Group 1. I was not able to take cuttings from all as some plants were too small - like I said before - the weak ones seem to be very weak and the strong very strong.
9/25/09: Cinderella 'Bravo' showed sex - male. It was chopped & it remains put with the other males of Group 1 in a brown paper bag of clippings for has later.
9/29/09: Changed Group 2's reservoir and gave them a 3/4 strength solution of Growth formula, I'm upping the does to find the "sweet spot" - the right amount of nutrients for the plants. I'll be watching them very closely for any signs of nutrient burn or stress. Group 2 is now 2 months, 1 week and 2 days old (10 weeks on the dot) or (70 days old).
If the plants I wasn't able to take clones from due to their small size don't grow any further, and I get some confirmed females from the ones I could clone - I may just chop them instead of flowering them out.
That just about brings Group 2 up to date.
General grow note: Although usually not mentioned unless there is a change in nutrient solution made, reservoirs are changed every 2 - 3 weeks and cleaned, in between times PH is adjusted, PPM is tested and adjusted as needed and reservoirs are topped off when needed with PH adjusted water.
I'm keeping & flowering out all females that look like they'd be worth flowering, even if the yield isn't going to be tremendous just because of the investment already placed in the plants up until now and to get some practice.
*Note: With LEDs - at least these Procyon LEDs and in my particular experience, if they come closer than 24" to the canopy the plants start to exhibit signs of heat stress in the form of twisting their leaves and making "ram's horns" to escape the light. This doesn't seem to have left any permanent damage and always subsides when the light is raised.
**Note: During flower I will be adding 4 48" UVB bulbs (10.0 Reptisun) to the grow as I'm using the Magnum xxxl sealed hoods which has glass that blocks much of the blue/UV end of the spectrum. The UVB will be run for 5 hours every day (with a kill switch on the outside of the room right next to the entrance because hey, who wants skin cancer?) and will be kept at a distance of at least 20" from the plants so as not to damage them. I'm adding the UVB b/c it aids in the production of flavonoids, trichomes, etc as a protective mechanism by the plant. Also I've read many reports of people saying that their bud is more potent with the addition of UVB.
My First Grow: Aeroponics, LED veg, Super HPS flower, CO2 sealed room
Group 2 Key:
This is the lay out of plants in the flower unit so you can easily identify them when I post pictures. Now that Cinderella 'Bravo" has been chopped, orienting where everything is will be much easier.
[align=center]Bc Ca
Bd Ba
Bf Bb
Bg Aa
Bh Ab
Cb Ac
Cc Ad
Reservoir
[/align]
Facing the reservoir on this unit's right is Group 1 in the dutch bucket system, to it's left is a wall of visqueen plastic and behind the unit is Group 3.
*Note - Cb (Cinderella 'Bravo') was a male and was chopped at the time the pictures were taken - so that should help.
Strain Key:
C99 X A11 = A
C99 X BB = B
Cinderella 99 = C
Individual Plant identifiers:
a = 'alpha'
b = 'bravo'
c = 'charlie'
d = 'delta'
e = 'echo'
f = 'foxtrot'
g = 'golf'
h = 'hotel'
All strain names are in capital letters - the unique identifiers (their "names") assigned to each plant are in small caps.
Strain always precedes individual name.
So Aa is C99 X A11 'alpha', Bg is C99 X Blueberry 'golf' and Cb is C99 'Bravo' - the one that got snipped.
As you can see, I'm using the phonetic alphabet. The benefits of doing that don't quite translate here in written form, but it's just easier and less error prone to do it this way. For example:
(Person in Veg room checking clones, shouts) "Hey, B's a male - chop it."
(Person in flower room with the snippers) "E's male?"
"B!"
"C?"
"B!!!"
"Okay, I heard you, you don't have to shout. D it is." <chop> Whoops.
I know it's only an off chance happening and maybe I'm just being over cautious, but people are less likely to mishear 'Charlie' and confuse it with 'Foxtrot' for example. That and the fact these plants are so nursed and fretted over (I've noticed I have a certain affection and pride for them as well) - they've become something like a pet and a pet deserves a name, don't you think?
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/a...-reservoir.jpg http://boards.cannabis.com/members/a...p-2-canopy.jpg
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/a...58-group-2.jpg http://boards.cannabis.com/members/a...erspective.jpg
My First Grow: Aeroponics, LED veg, Super HPS flower, CO2 sealed room
A note on measuring Lux/Foot Candles with LEDs. When measuring what is the proper amount of light for plants using LEDs, your number will be necessarily lower than if you were measuring with a less restricted spectrum light source. To find the optimum level without any adverse effects but still providing maximum light energy, I placed my light meter at the top of the canopy of Group 1 where the leaves were thriving & healthy - any closer and they exhibit heat stress/light overload. As plants get older, it seems they are more able to withstand closer distances.
The tops of the canopy of Group 1 produced a range of 8500 Lux - 9000 Lux. As they are the oldest they are able to tolerate more light.
For Group 2 , the light distance was adjusted to be closer by a few inches and the light was made more even. Initial readings were in the range of 2000 Lux - 5000 Lux, decreasing as it neared the edges. New readings after adjustment were 3500's - 6000 Lux. The light was considerably improved in terms of evenness and intensity.
Group 3, Units 1 & 2 had the Procyon height adjusted closer and had initial readings ranging from 1500 - 5000 Lux. After adjustment the range was high 2000 - 5000 Lux. Unit 3 as put under 3 T5 lights at a distance of 1 inch away.
It's a lot of trial and error and not much consistency to go by as the plants do tolerate more light as they age. Your only guide is the approximate height given by the manufacturer (24" - 36" with the Procyons which has proven true) and watching for inverted leaves. However the values I have gathered seem to be where the plants absorb the most light without getting heat stressed.
My First Grow: Aeroponics, LED veg, Super HPS flower, CO2 sealed room
Hi Apollonia,
First let me say what a very nice grow you have going there. Looks like you put a lot of time and effort, and probably a lot of research and thinking into building a very nice aero system. Nice work! :thumbsup:
I also mark my plants when I'm growing out larger plants but I put a plastic nursery tag around the stalks, and that follows the plant right thru trimming.
You are absolutely right about trying to avoid confusion, I go so far as color coded 5 gallon jugs we mix nutrients in. I use blue for grow nutes, red for bloom nutes, white for RO water and yellow as a waste jug. (I do aero/fog to waste) Nobody gets an excuse (not even me) for using the wrong item at the right time.
I had a pair of Procyon's for almost a year doing veg and mothers, mounted on a light rail and they worked extremely well. Like you point out the height above the canopy makes a big difference in performance, too close and you can stop growth and too hi creates weak plants that stretch. But get that sweet spot and the coverage vs. penertration is good. I also love that you are quantifing the light levels, that is a very nice touch.
Continued success and good growing.
:)
My First Grow: Aeroponics, LED veg, Super HPS flower, CO2 sealed room
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmac
Hi Apollonia,
First let me say what a very nice grow you have going there. Looks like you put a lot of time and effort, and probably a lot of research and thinking into building a very nice aero system. Nice work! :thumbsup:
I also mark my plants when I'm growing out larger plants but I put a plastic nursery tag around the stalks, and that follows the plant right thru trimming.
You are absolutely right about trying to avoid confusion, I go so far as color coded 5 gallon jugs we mix nutrients in. I use blue for grow nutes, red for bloom nutes, white for RO water and yellow as a waste jug. (I do aero/fog to waste) Nobody gets an excuse (not even me) for using the wrong item at the right time.
I had a pair of Procyon's for almost a year doing veg and mothers, mounted on a light rail and they worked extremely well. Like you point out the height above the canopy makes a big difference in performance, too close and you can stop growth and too hi creates weak plants that stretch. But get that sweet spot and the coverage vs. penertration is good. I also love that you are quantifing the light levels, that is a very nice touch.
Continued success and good growing.
:)
Hey there OM! So glad you stopped by - I've been reading your posts before I even joined the site, I'm honored to have you here.
Yeah, I'm an animal with research. I don't think anyone with no real prior experience (me) would have a chance of pulling off a grow like this with all these separate, unknown & difficult elements unless they put a ton of research and preparation into every little aspect and know their shit backwards & forwards and even then they'd have to keep observant as the plans hit reality. Outside the research I've done, a few simple backyard vegetable/flower plantings is the extent of my growing experience. I never even used hydroponics before this - but I take this seriously and I am going to try to make the very best of what I have.
About the Procyons - I plan on trying to get more & better numbers/data on the light readings as I haven't seen anything like that out there really. Well I've seen it at greenpinelane.com but again, he's growing cherry tomatoes.
I'm happy with what my lights are doing for me - to my untrained eye, the plants look very healthy & green and I think they look like they're in near optimal health (please, anyone, give me your opinion on this esp if you think I'm wrong). I credit this to the fact that heat isn't an issue and the LED is a "gentler" light in ways, plants grow a little different under them - it's a very subtle thing, but I've noticed they're a different shade of green - more yellow-green than the gray-green you get under an HID. There's also less of a sheen on plants grown under LEDs which I believe means they are not building up protective wax (not the proper term, I know) on their leaves to block intensity & certain frequencies that can "damage" them - but this is all conjecture from me.
I'd say the "worst" thing about my LEDs is the penetration issue - it goes not much farther down than 3 feet - but I have heard HID isn't that much more effective after 3 feet either so, not a biggie. I'm not growing anything I want to get larger than 3 ft anyway. If I may ask, why did you stop using your Procyons? Do you remember where the "sweet spot" was above the canopy for you? What would you say the biggest difference is in terms of Procyon veg/growth vs. HID grown plants?
It's funny - categorizing/organizing the nutes, the plants, etc is one of my favorite things to do. Maybe weird, maybe a little OCD, whatever, I'm happy. I like to color code too. There's something satisfying about the process. Plus I think I'd lose it if I were confronted with 50 odd "mystery" plants of indeterminate parentage/strain b/c they weren't properly labeled.
I thought I'd included this in my grow description but if not, now's a good time to say it. My system is largely modeled after Stinkbud's generously provided plans. Just giving the credit where it is due - the only reason my grow is where it is is b/c I get the privilege of standing on the shoulders of giants who came before me and slogged it out for the first time, like you & Stink & everyone else on these forums who made their own additions to this huge community resource. So I'd just like to take a little break in the journal to acknowledge all those folks - I am sincerely grateful. Now let me stop myself before this gets too shmaltzy & I start thanking my parents & god like it's the Academy Awards. :D
My First Grow: Aeroponics, LED veg, Super HPS flower, CO2 sealed room
I come across a lot of people dying to get their hands on some C99, since it is one of the plants in my grow, I thought I'd provide current links to places that are selling C99 seeds.
I found 2 reputable, solid sites currently offering C99 if anyone is interested:
Marijuana Cannabis seeds at Hemp Depot Shipped Worldwide
Actual C99 Cinderella Weed Seeds - Hanfsamen - Pot Seeds ΓΆβ?¬β?? Feminized - Cannabis Strain ΓΆβ?¬β?? Marihuanasamen ΓΆβ?¬β?? Cannabissamen ΓΆβ?¬β?? Hempseeds ΓΆβ?¬β?? Hanfshop
I've done business with Hemp Depot & I'm growing Joey Weed seeds so i can personally vouch for them and their products. If anyone cares, the C99 I'm growing now was available through Hemp Depot as a limited run offer from Kingdom seed company however all the other plants I'm growing are from Joey Weed and can be found at the link provided. The second website & company,
Hempy & Actual Seeds appear to be legit w/many posts reporting having ordered successfully from them, also Actual Seeds gave an interested buyer excellent feedback about the Cinderella 99 they're offering.
I'd say both are very solid options.
My First Grow: Aeroponics, LED veg, Super HPS flower, CO2 sealed room
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apollonia
About the Procyons - I plan on trying to get more & better numbers/data on the light readings as I haven't seen anything like that out there really. Well I've seen it at greenpinelane.com but again, he's growing cherry tomatoes.
I'm happy with what my lights are doing for me - to my untrained eye, the plants look very healthy & green and I think they look like they're in near optimal health (please, anyone, give me your opinion on this esp if you think I'm wrong). I credit this to the fact that heat isn't an issue and the LED is a "gentler" light in ways, plants grow a little different under them - it's a very subtle thing, but I've noticed they're a different shade of green - more yellow-green than the gray-green you get under an HID. There's also less of a sheen on plants grown under LEDs which I believe means they are not building up protective wax (not the proper term, I know) on their leaves to block intensity & certain frequencies that can "damage" them - but this is all conjecture from me.
I'd say the "worst" thing about my LEDs is the penetration issue - it goes not much farther down than 3 feet - but I have heard HID isn't that much more effective after 3 feet either so, not a biggie. I'm not growing anything I want to get larger than 3 ft anyway. If I may ask, why did you stop using your Procyons? Do you remember where the "sweet spot" was above the canopy for you? What would you say the biggest difference is in terms of Procyon veg/growth vs. HID grown plants?
A favorite subject, those Procyon's. I think you are being a little generous saying 3' penertration, I've found 2'+, not quite to 3'. I got 2 when they where first introduced to use in my mom/veg room. They did a good job tho I did put them on a light rail and found that helped with penertration, when they move the angle of the light to the plant changes constantly. Parts shadowed get un-shadowed in a few moments. I never considered them for flowering till I saw SnStealth's (1/2 of which is WhiskeyTango) grow log. The only reason I stopped using them is I sold them (I needed money bad last year) as part of a small aero grow tray set-up in a tent for a group setting up a small mmj grow. They have worked very well for them, and are growing from cuts to finish with the Procyons' plus a small amount of supplemental light.
I found that 18" above the mom's kept them from growing upwards and kept them bushy while 24" above plants vegging worked well for growth vs. node spacing. The biggest difference I guess is the color of the plants (but you need to move them under some different light to notice). I found I could control the growth better with the Procyon's then with the MH, simply by adjusting hgt up or down. That might just be a product of the MHs having more "oomph" or the ability of the Procyon's to get closer but either way the Pro's worked better.
Keep up the nice work, good growing to you.
:D oldmac
