Israel to end support of outposts

Israel to end support of outposts
Page last updated at 18:22 GMT, Sunday, 2 November 2008

By Tim Franks
BBC News, Jerusalem

The Israeli government has announced that it will cut off all public funding and support for illegal Jewish settlement outposts in the West Bank.

Ministers said the move was in response to an "intolerable" rise in violence and threats from some settlers directed towards the Israeli security forces.

The settlement outposts are regarded as illegal under Israeli law.

The US-brokered "roadmap" peace plan demands Israel uproot all unauthorised outposts built since March 2001.

About 450,000 Jews live in the West Bank and East Jerusalem in settlements considered illegal under international law, although Israel disputes this.

'Disgrace'

Israeli ministers have long complained about the behaviour of a minority of settlers, particularly those who live in outposts. Now, they say, they will take action.

The government will stop money and amenities from the public purse going to outposts.

"There is a not insignificant group of outlaws that are behaving in a manner that is threatening the rule of law," caretaker Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said ahead of Sunday's cabinet meeting.

"This is an intolerable situation that we refuse to accept."

Under international law, all Israeli settlements on occupied territory are regarded as illegal, except by Israel itself.

However, even Israel says that the 100 or so smaller, unauthorised settlements - known as outposts - break the country's own law.

Recently, there has been an increase in violence around outposts, as the Israeli army and police have attempted to evict a few of the settlers living on some of the newer and smaller outposts.

The head of the internal intelligence service, Shin Bet, said it was "very concerned" by the danger of Jewish extremists reverting to political assassinations.

The government's declaration that it is going to get serious with outposts may raise eyebrows in some quarters.

Almost four years ago, a government-commissioned report detailed how a large number of outposts had been established with official collusion.

Mr Olmert has described them as a "disgrace". And yet not one significant outpost has been dismantled or shut down by his government.

BBC NEWS | Middle East | Israel to end support of outposts
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u see, extremism in no shape, color or manner is good, we got extremist muslims, christians and jews, etc and i think all are guilty of being extremists who ruin the lives for the more moderate people that make up the majority in most cases

Yes, that is true,but it seems only the Muslim ones blow up themselves and other innocent people in the streets including other Muslims.

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Originally Posted by apocolips31

Yes, that is true,but it seems only the Muslim ones blow up themselves and other innocent people in the streets including other Muslims.

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How about in 1982, when Israel invaded Lebanon simply because Palestinian terrorists were staging attacks from there, and went as far as Beirut, slaughtering countless civilians?

Yes, Israel's territory in other nations is considered illegal...of course, what should be considered illegal also is their sixty-year occupation of Palestine at the expense of the locals, who were quickly dragged down into second-class citizen status. I'll probably be labeled anti-Semetic for saying this, because that's how taboo it is to crititicize Israeli policy, but I must state that I am not AT ALL anti-Semetic, I am simply opposed to the use of tyranny and the continuation of a major apartheid, just as I oppose all of the world's other tyrannical forces.

Oh, you know making comparisons between the Israeli situation and apartheid was listed among some British report's list of anti-Semetic activities? We need to start opening up debate and stop silencing all dissenters by labeling their righteous outrage as discrimination.

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Originally Posted by apocolips31

Yes, that is true,but it seems only the Muslim ones blow up themselves and other innocent people in the streets including other Muslims.

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1st off, your post has nothing to do with this issue here, this is about extremist israelis ignoring international law and even their own (internationally flawed and rejected) national law

2nd:a real muslim will never ever kill unarmed civilians, especially other muslims of all factions

go become familiar with islam before u accuse the religion and its true followers.

just because someone calls himself a muslim or a christian or a jew, doesnt mean they are true ones

just cuz some idiot extremist who claims to be muslim says or does something (in this case suicide bombing, targetting civilians) it should not and does not represent islam and all of other muslims

For clarification
Suicide Bombers in Islam
WORSHIP\ Jihaad \ Suicide bombings \ Attacking the enemy by blowing oneself up in a car
What does the Qur'an say about terrorism?

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"And fight in the way of Allah those who fight you. But do not transgress limits. Truly Allah loves not the transgressors."

- Qur'an, Surah Al-Baqarah (2:190)

The dangerous escalation of violence in the world is disturbing to all people of conscience, from September 11 to the Middle East battles, and other random acts of violence perpetrated at innocent civilians.

In Islam, several things are clear:

* Suicide is forbidden. "O ye who believe!... [do not] kill yourselves, for truly Allah has been to you Most Merciful. If any do that in rancour and injustice, soon shall We cast him into the Fire..." (Qur'an 4:29-30).
* The taking of life is allowed only by way of justice (i.e. the death penalty for murder), but even then, forgiveness is better. "Nor take life - which Allah has made sacred - except for just cause..." (17:33).
* In pre-Islamic Arabia, retaliation and mass murder was commonplace. If someone was killed, the victim's tribe would retaliate against the murderer's entire tribe. This practice was directly forbidden in the Qur'an (2:178-179). Following this statement of law, the Qur'an says, "After this, whoever exceeds the limits shall be in grave chastisement" (2:178). No matter what wrong we perceive as being done against us, we may not lash out against an entire population of people.
* The Qur'an admonishes those who oppress others and transgress beyond the bounds of what is right and just. "The blame is only against those who oppress men with wrongdoing and insolently transgress beyond bounds through the land, defying right and justice. For such there will be a chastisement grievous (in the Hereafter)" (42:42).
* Harming innocent bystanders, even in times of war, was forbidden by the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). This includes women, children, noncombatant bystanders, and even trees and crops. Nothing is to be harmed unless the person or thing is actively engaged in an assault against Muslims.

The predominant theme in the Qur'an is forgiveness and peace. Allah (God) is Merciful and Forgiving, and seeks that in His followers. Indeed, most people who spend time on a personal level with ordinary Muslims have found them to be peaceful, honest, hard-working, civic-minded people.

In the fight against terrorism of all forms, it is important to understand who or what is our enemy. We can only fight against this horror if we understand its causes and motivations. What motivates a person to lash out in this violent, inhumane way? That is something that all of us -- mental health professionals, politicians, and common people -- need to understand, so that we can address the issues more honestly, prevent more violence, and find ways to work towards lasting peace.

Please visit the links below to read what Muslim scholars and Islamic governmental leaders have recently declared about this subject.

"O ye who believe! Remain steadfast for Allah, bearing witness to justice. Do not allow your hatred for others make you swerve to wrongdoing and turn you away from justice. Be just; that is closer to true piety."

- Qur'an, Surah al-Maidah (5:8)

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Attacking the enemy by blowing oneself up in a car
*Please appropriately reference this fatwa to: Fatwa-Online.com <> eFatwa.com, thankyou!*
Question: What is the ruling regarding acts of jihaad by means of suicide, such as attaching explosives to a car and storming the enemy, whereby he knows without a doubt that he shall die as a result of this action?

Response: Indeed, my opinion is that he is regarded as one who has killed himself (committed suicide), and as a result he shall be punished in Hell, for that which is authenticated on the authority of the Prophet (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam).

[((Indeed, whoever (intentionally) kills himself, then certainly he will be punished in the Fire of Hell, wherein he shall dwell forever)), [Bukhaaree (5778) and Muslim (109 and 110)]].

However, one who is ignorant and does not know, and assumes his action was good and pleasing to Allaah (Subhaanahu wa Ta'aala), then we hope Allaah (Subhaanahu wa Ta'aala) forgives him for that which he did out of (ignorant) ijtihaad, even though I do not find any excuse for him in the present day. This is because this type of suicide is well known and widespread amongst the people, so it is upon the person to ask the people of knowledge (scholars) regarding it, until the right guidance for him is differentiated from the error.

And from that which is surprising, is that these people kill themselves despite Allaah having fordbidden this, as He (Subhaanahu wa Ta'aala) says:

{And do not kill yourselves. Surely, Allaah is Most Merciful to you}, [Soorah an-Nisaa., Aayah 29].

And many amongst them do not desire anything except revenge of the enemy, by whatever means, be it halaal or haraam. So they only want to satisfy their thirst for revenge.

We ask Allaah to bless us with foresight in His Deen and action(s) which please Him, indeed He is all Powerful over all things.

Shaykh Ibn 'Uthaymeen
Kayfa Nu'aalij Waaqi'unaa al-Aleem - Page 119

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however i dont blame you, your news and media will never ever cover such a thing, and even if they do, just like many other rooted myths, many people will not buy it.

but fact n the matter is that such terroristic moves are condemned and rejected by real and true muslims

forget governments and groups that claim following islam, ISLAMIC REPUBLIC of IRAN, has completely violated the real islam, inside out!!!! So has done Kingdom of Saudi Arabia with their harsh and extremist Wahhabist views

one last note: FYI for everyone, there are many names and adjectives attributed to Allah (god, its claimed in Islam this is the same god who sent Jesus, Moses, Abraham and Noah and many other prophets), but if u have even read Quran once or even just looked inside it, I believe the most repeated and stressed characteristics of Allah are in the beginning of every Surah (chapter)

every single surah (chapter) starts with this sentence: In the name of Allah, the beneficent (sometimes called compassionate), the merciful (بسم الله الرحمن الرحیم)

it could have been, in the name of allah, the distresser, the avenger

Mind u, there are more than 99 names & adjs attributed to allah accepted by muslims and even mentioned in Quran (including the above mentioned 4)
ALLAH Names, The Most Beautiful Names of ALLAH, 99 Names of ALLAH

Half of the crap representing Islam these out there is in no way word of Allah, rather word that is attributed to his prophet n other high ranking n early muslims usually in form of Hadith, a muslim does not HAVE to believe in such a thing, but many do.
Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

my bad going a lil off topic, expanding the above explanation, but i feel its needed so people can think, judge, decide and talk on basis of true and reliable information

Psychology Today: Ten Politically Incorrect Truths About Human Nature

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# Most suicide bombers are Muslim

According to the Oxford University sociologist Diego Gambetta, editor of Making Sense of Suicide Missions, a comprehensive history of this troubling yet topical phenomenon, while suicide missions are not always religiously motivated, when religion is involved, it is always Muslim. Why is this? Why is Islam the only religion that motivates its followers to commit suicide missions?

The surprising answer from the evolutionary psychological perspective is that Muslim suicide bombing may have nothing to do with Islam or the Koran (except for two lines in it). It may have nothing to do with the religion, politics, the culture, the race, the ethnicity, the language, or the region. As with everything else from this perspective, it may have a lot to do with sex, or, in this case, the absence of sex.

What distinguishes Islam from other major religions is that it tolerates polygyny. By allowing some men to monopolize all women and altogether excluding many men from reproductive opportunities, polygyny creates shortages of available women. If 50 percent of men have two wives each, then the other 50 percent don't get any wives at all.

So polygyny increases competitive pressure on men, especially young men of low status. It therefore increases the likelihood that young men resort to violent means to gain access to mates. By doing so, they have little to lose and much to gain compared with men who already have wives. Across all societies, polygyny makes men violent, increasing crimes such as murder and rape, even after controlling for such obvious factors as economic development, economic inequality, population density, the level of democracy, and political factors in the region.

However, polygyny itself is not a sufficient cause of suicide bombing. Societies in sub-Saharan Africa and the Caribbean are much more polygynous than the Muslim nations in the Middle East and North Africa. And they do have very high levels of violence. Sub-Saharan Africa suffers from a long history of continuous civil warsâ??but not suicide bombings.

The other key ingredient is the promise of 72 virgins waiting in heaven for any martyr in Islam. The prospect of exclusive access to virgins may not be so appealing to anyone who has even one mate on earth, which strict monogamy virtually guarantees. However, the prospect is quite appealing to anyone who faces the bleak reality on earth of being a complete reproductive loser.

It is the combination of polygyny and the promise of a large harem of virgins in heaven that motivates many young Muslim men to commit suicide bombings. Consistent with this explanation, all studies of suicide bombers indicate that they are significantly younger than not only the Muslim population in general but other (nonsuicidal) members of their own extreme political organizations like Hamas and Hezbollah. And nearly all suicide bombers are single.

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PS. I'm semi-atheist, aka kinda agnostic. I do not hold any religion nor do i practice any of them

I'm sorry I was misunderstood, I used poor wording. I meant the extremist Muslims. Sense that is what the post was about extremists of each side.

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Originally Posted by apocolips31

I'm sorry I was misunderstood, I used poor wording. I meant the extremist Muslims. Sense that is what the post was about extremists of each side.

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Thanks for clearing it up man. I just wanted to make sure we are on the same page. I'm just tired of all the negative stigma about "MUSLIMS" out there, regardless of me supporting obama, i find it quite disturbing that even if he was a muslim this was a problem with Americans (or anyone else, say it was republican and white candidate and muslim). A prez's religion is not a requirement for him in the law of the land, the only problem will be taking the oath: a muslim can be held accountable to an oath on quran, the same way a xtian can be held accountable on an oath with bible. after all they dont make oath to protect their religions, they take responsibility of the country and if that oath is proven breached, the law of the land will take care of them not their books! (or jewish prez for that matter)

aside from all the misinformation and stereotypes about muslims since 9.11. i think if surveyed around the world, a lot of muslims should have the highest level of hatred for that jackass osama, he totally ruined their religion in the eyes of average westerners and other non-muslims (who sadly cannot get all the facts)

i simply don't like extremism, in any shape form or on any specific side. it almost always leads to (more) problems

extremist muslims = extremist christians = extremist jews = they are all the same, same mentality, same mindframe just different beliefs n ideas. still extremists who cannot be all that easily dealt with in a rational manner.

and this story is just the perfect example, we all already know about them extremist n fake muslims terrorizing everyone n everything. but this shows that ideas n religions are not all the equation, the extremism part, even among the jews, shows how it can go awry

anyways. man i gotta get some weed, this is me sober... gets waaaaaaaay too serious:D:jointsmile: not fun!