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I've been following the arrest rates of both the DNC and RNC conventions and found that at the end of the DNC there were a total of 152 arrests, while at the RNC there was a total of about 800 arrests. What can be deduced from this?
Link to DNC Arrests News
Link to RNC Arrests News
really nothing specific can be concluded from this. too many factors are involved that we don't have accurate view of!
Exactly. From what I saw though people protesting the RNC were not really protesting but rather rioting or bordering on a riot.Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingimam
I personally found it hilarious that the people thought that by acting like fools they would get their protest message across. What ever happened to logic and reason?
How does "Logic and Reason" apply when our Government and One of the major Political Partys act like this......Quote:
Originally Posted by daihashi
ST. PAUL, Minn. â?? On the weekend before the Republican National Convention, law enforcement agencies detained dozens of people and issued a series of search warrants aimed at groups believed to be organizing demonstrations while delegates and Republican officials are in town...A copy of a warrant at one house said the police were authorized to look for a laundry list of items, including fire bombs, Molotov cocktails, brake fluid, photographs and maps of St. Paul, paint, computers and camera equipment, and documents and other communications....the authorities were permitted to hold those they arrested without charging them for up to 36 hours -- excluding weekends or holidays -- in essence detaining them for the length of the convention.
Police raids enrage activists, alarm others
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The show of force was led by the Ramsey County Sheriff's Office in collaboration with the FBI, Minneapolis and St. Paul police, the Hennepin County Sheriff's Office and other agencies.
But a St. Paul City Council member described it as excessive, while activists, many of whom were detained and then released without charges, called it intimidation designed to quash free speech."
Preemptive Arrests???????? No Charges?????? and if you think thats bad,Read this!!!!!
Permibus Seizure
"From their website: "At approximately 6:25 pm on August 30, 2008 Minneapolis Police, Minnesota State Troopers, Ramsey County Sheriffs, Saint Paul Police, and University of Minnesota Police pulled over the Earth Activist Training Permaculture Demonstration Bus (Permibus) by exit 237 on Interstate 94. Initially the police told the people on the bus to exit. When the people on the bus asked if they were being detained they were told that they were but police were unable to provide justification. When asked why they pulled the bus over they refused to answer. After repeated requests to explain why the bus had been stopped Officer Honican of the Minneapolis Police explained that this was just a routine traffic stop though he did not explain the reason for the traffic stop. The police then told Stan Wilson, the driver and registered owner of the Permibus, that they were going to impound the bus in case they wanted to execute a search warrant later. After more than an hour of being questioned by Stan and Delyla Wilson as to the legalities of their detainment and the impoundment of the Permibus, the police then informed Stan that the bus, which is legally registered as a passenger vehicle in the state of Montana, was being impounded for a commercial vehicle inspection. Shortly afterward Sergeant Paul Davis, a commercial vehicle inspector arrived on scene. Despite the polices insistence that the reason for impoundment was for a commercial vehicle inspection the Permibus crew were not allowed to remove anything from the bus including computers, toiletries, and 17-year-old Megan Wilson's shoes. The police finally allowed the animals to be removed from the Permibus before it was towed, leaving the Permibus family standing beside their chickens and dogs, homeless on the highway.
The Permibus was relocating from the Bedlam Theatre in Minneapolis, where they had spent the day teaching Urban Permaculture, to a friend's house in Saint Paul for a well deserved break. The Permibus has been in the Minneapolis area since August 2nd when the crew appeared at the Midtown Farmers Market for a morning of Permaculture education including Permaculture 101, chicken care, seed ball making for kids, and the Permi-puppet show. During the past month the Permibus has parked at several local businesses and, as a neighborly gesture of respect for local police, Mr. Wilson contacted the appropriate precincts just to let them know the Permibus was in the area and had permission from the business owners to be parked on their lot. Through this, as well as other casual discussions with Minneapolis and Saint Paul police officers, the Permibus crew found the local police to be interested and respectful. However on August 30th all that changed when, for no apparent valid reason the police pulled over and seized the Permibus. After the incident Stan Wilson said, "If the combined law enforcement of Minneapolis, Saint Paul, Ramsey County, and the State of Minnesota can pull over and impound a vehicle and home used to teach organic gardening and sustainability, one has to wonder what it is our government really fears. After all, we seek to teach people that the real meaning of homeland security is local food, fuel and energy production. For that we have had our lives stolen by government men with guns."
As of now, after repeated requests to be present at any vehicle inspection, with an list of what they are inspecting for, as well as requests to be served any warrants for searches of the vehicles prior to a search and to be present during the search the Permi-family has been unable to ascertain the current status of the Permibus. On site Mr. Wilson was told that Officer Palmerranky was the inspector in charge of the case and would determine if the Permi-family's rights protecting them from unreasonable search and seizure would be respected. Neither Officer Palmerranky nor his supervisor has yet to return Mr. Wilson's calls. The loss of her home and possessions is particularly difficult on seventeen-year-old Megan Wilson. Megan, a shining example of what this country asks of today's youth, has dedicated herself to making positive changes in the world. She was the youth keynote speaker at the Local to Global conference in Phoenix AZ, has taught conflict resolution at youth shelters and is the outreach coordinator for the Skills for a New Millennium Tour, the family traveling educational project. Megan believes that, "While I understand that the world we live in is not as it should be I strive to live and teach in a way that shows the world how life could be. What I don't understand is why I can't get dressed for an evening out with friends in my own home without armed men stealing my life out from under me." The Permi-family, along with their dogs and Permaculture super-hero chickens are currently being housed by folks in the Twin Cities.
The Skills for a New Millennium Tour is a family education project that travels around the United States teaching homesteading, citizenship, and life skills at farmers markets, community gardens, churches, intentional communities, schools, and in people's living rooms. The Skills Tour is a donation supported project dedicated to providing tools for sustainable living, including Permaculture, to anyone who is interested, regardless of income. "We believe that any solution that is not accessible to the poor and urban areas is not a real solution for the future," states Delyla Wilson. Permaculture is a design system with ethics and principles that can be applied to food production, home design, and community building in order to increase sustainability in food production, energy production, and social systems. The Permibus is a rolling demonstration of small scale sustainable living with three people, three dogs, three chickens, and a box of worms as permanent residence. The chickens and worms are part of a closed-loop food productions composting system that supports the Permibus's traveling garden. For more information on the seizure of the Permibus, the Skills for the New Millennium Tour, or Permaculture, the Wilson's can be reached at 406-721-8427 or through email at [email protected]. You can also see pictures and read stories about the last six months of their educational adventures at permibus.livejournal.com."
And then there is this......
A lawyer from the National Guild was interviewed on Democracy Now.. A first in National Conventions... St Paul had an insurance policy bought for them by the RNC. No matter what actions the police took. Legal or not.. The policy covered the City of St Paul for up to 10 million in losses due to lawsuits by plantiffs who had their civil liberties trampled upon.
So this kinda thing is Ok if one see the world from a different point of view.....Whats next Pot Smokers????
I've been on the fence as to whom I was gonna Vote for.....NOT ANY MORE!!!!!!!!!!!
I think it has a lot to do with respect... Im not even going for McCain but i cant tell you how pissed i was each time somebody jumped up to interrupt his speech. Let the man speak his peace and then we the people decide. We donâ??t need all those goofs getting in the way. Its one thing to stand for a cause and its another when you just want to jump around and act a fool to get some attention. Code pink needs to buy some tampons and learn a new way to get things done. I must admit when i saw that lady acting so crazy last night it made me stop and think "Do I really want to be standing beside her?" I know we can all bring up a million people on the other side that i wouldnâ??t want to stand beside either, Im just trying to make the point that there is a time and a place for that and speaking as a democrat it was embarrassing...
It's not that.. it's that it doesn't give you an excuse to act like an idiot and pick a fight with police guarding the RNC.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Figment
I said it before, you would have to be a moron to do that and doing it on live TV really does not help earn your cause any respect. It makes you look disorganized, desperate and a little bit done. A protest can be performed anywhere, it didn't have to be in front of the RNC.
I don't know if they had a no soliciting/protesting ordenance or what not but regardless if I see police dressed to take down people you better believe I'm not going to go looking for trouble. I can perform an organized protest away from the RNC. There are plenty of people to hear you anywhere you go.
If you read what I posted,it is discussing "Preemptive Arrests...in other words arresting people for "Thinking"about breaking the law....something EVERYBODY on this board does EVERY Day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hummmmmmmm can one say "Thought Police"???????Quote:
Originally Posted by daihashi
And please explain the Bus travelling on I-94....now its legal to stop,detain and impound a vehicle of a "Pro Sustainable Earth/Lifestyle Group" because they "Look" like Hippie/Protesters?????????? Since when has appearance had ANYTHING to do with Politics........can one say "Waffen SS"....I thought so.
And then covering up the fact that the GOP took out an insurance policy to cover the asses of the police when they get sued for arresting folk with no more probable cause then that "They may be thinking about breaking the law".....and what are most of us diong when we think..."gee I THINK I need a sack'o grass,hell I'm almost out"
Sorry,these were/are the same tactics and thinking that prevailed in Europe in 1938-39....thank you,but once in human history is ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!
I agree completely.Quote:
Originally Posted by trancefusion5
It is inapropriate for protesters of either side to act like this. It doesn't help your cause at all. They might have well wrote "I'm a douche" on their foreheads. It is not a good way to get their points across.
It seems like the Democrat protesters were a bit more vicious than the Republican ones. I'm all for free speech and the right to protest, but be civil.
There were more arrests at the RNC because more Democratic protesters were acting so ridiculous.