Obama and the 'L' Word

When it comes to being labeled "a liberal," Barack Obama is dismissive. "Oh, he's liberal. He's liberal," he said recently in describing a characterization of him by Republicans. "Let me tell you something. There's nothing liberal about wanting to reduce money in politics. It's common sense. . . . There's nothing liberal about wanting to make sure that everybody has health care."

Mr. Obama needs to inoculate himself against the claim that he's a liberal. For the past quarter-century it has been consistently the most effective charge made by Republicans against Democrats. America is a center-right country and in modern times has not elected a thoroughgoing liberal as president (Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton ran as moderate Democrats). The problem is that, by any reasonable standard, Mr. Obama is an orthodox liberal.

National Journal rated him as the most liberal person in the Senate in 2007, and for good reason. On economic policy, Mr. Obama favors higher income, Social Security and corporate taxes. He supports massive increases in domestic spending and greater government regulation of the economy. He favors a significantly larger role for the federal government in health care. He opposes the North American Free Trade Agreement.

Mr. Obama has criticized the Supreme Court's decision to uphold a partial birth abortion ban, and he wants to repeal the Defense of Marriage Act. He voted against John Roberts and Samuel Alito for the Supreme Court. In Illinois, Mr. Obama supported banning the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns. And he supports granting driver's licenses to illegal immigrants.

On national security matters, Mr. Obama voted to deny legal immunity to telecom companies that have cooperated with the government in warrantless wiretapping of suspected terrorists. He wants to grant habeas corpus rights to detainees held at Guantanamo Bay. He supports a full-scale withdrawal from Iraq. And he says, in his first year in office, he would meet with the leaders of Iran, Syria, Venezuela, Cuba and North Korea without preconditions.

It's no wonder that Mr. Obama has been endorsed by Moveon.org â?? one of the most radical groups within the liberal universe.
Obama and the 'L' Word - WSJ.com

I thought this nailed the issues right on the head. When it rolls down to November people will be thinking real hard if this is what they really want in the Whitehouse........my guess is NOT.

Have a good one!:s4:

Most interesting...I always thought he was a socialist.......


Don't worry everyone, elect me and big daddy government will take care of all your needs............................just wait in line until we call your number and we will assign you a case number and get back to you real soon.

Don't make enough money? we will raise minimun wage to $20/hr
Make $20/hr we'll tax it all away.


Barack may have a silver spoon, but his ideas are tarnished.

I wonder if I'm a "liberal" by this definition. I'm a Democrat, but I don't usuallly think of myself as "liberal." I have some conservative views too, and I don't care much about liberal social issues (or conservative social issues). So I'm a bit left leaning, but I wouldn't say "liberal."

Here's what I think about the positions stated in teh article:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Psycho4Bud

On economic policy, Mr. Obama favors higher income, Social Security and corporate taxes.

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To me, this is a fiscal responsibilioty issue, something that used to be a conservative issue. If you are going to spend all this freakin' money, you need to collect it from somewhere. Bush has done a great job of spending money he doesn't have and giving away money he borrowed and we will have to pay back through future higher taxes. There's nothing conservative about that. I actually think so called "liberal" Democrats are more conservative and fiscally responsible than so-called "conservative" Republicans. At least Democrats seem willing to pay for the things they spend money on. And on the Social Security tax --- it's gonna run out of money, so you either need to raise Social Security taxes or cut benefits. It's simple math, so take you pick.

I favor raising the Social Security tax cieling. Right now it tops out around an income of $92,000 --- after that you don't pay any more Social Security tax. I'd say let that go up to a higher cieling. And I'd be OK with adding another year or two to the year in which you can start recieving benefits.

On the other taxes, I favor a fiscally responsible approach of raising taxes if we can't control our spending. I do not favor running an enormous deficit, like Reagan and Bush. If that means higher taxes, then so be it. I'd like to see capital gains taxes and dividend taxes taxed at the same rate as income tax from wages --- it's all income. Why should you get a better rate from owning investments that make money instead of laboring for money?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Psycho4Bud

He supports massive increases in domestic spending and greater government regulation of the economy.

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I do not favor MASSIVE increases in domestic spending, but maybe that's just how the article characterizes the increases. I do favor government paying to fix our crumbling infrastructure, like our highways and bridges that are falling down. Maybe we could get some good jobs out of it, along with fewer pot holes and bridge collapses. I certainly favor that over spending money on things like givving away $600 to everyone, so they can go buy a Wii.

I favor government spending money on things like renewable enrgy, rather than giving away billions in subsidies to rich oil and coal compaines that already make outrgeous profits as it is.

I do favor greater government regulation of the economy with regards to things like this idiotic mortgage meltdown. And I also favor greater environmental regulation.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Psycho4Bud

He favors a significantly larger role for the federal government in health care.

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I'm not sure what the answer is here, but I think the answer will involve the government. The healthcare system is truly fucked up right now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Psycho4Bud

He opposes the North American Free Trade Agreement.

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I supported NAFTA when it first was signed, and in general I suport trade agreements that do away with unnecessary barriers to trade, but I think it has some flaws that need to be fixed. Free trade has not turned out to be fair in all cases.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Psycho4Bud

Mr. Obama has criticized the Supreme Court's decision to uphold a partial birth abortion ban, and he wants to repeal the Defense of Marriage Act.

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I agree with these positions. I don't think we should be taking away medical techiniques used by doctors to save the lives of mothers for social reasons.

I don't really favor government getting invloved in social issues on either side. I don't really care all that much either way whether gay people can get married or join the Army. It seems like we spend a lot of energy on this kind of stuff that could be spent on something else. I think gay couples should be able to from a legal union that guarantees them the same rights and legal benefits of spouses, but I don't really care if they call it "marriage."

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Psycho4Bud

He voted against John Roberts and Samuel Alito for the Supreme Court.

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I did not support these judges either.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Psycho4Bud

In Illinois, Mr. Obama supported banning the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns.

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I do not support bans of this sort. I'm OK with gun control measureas that add accountability, such as registration, like we have for cars, but not bans.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Psycho4Bud

And he supports granting driver's licenses to illegal immigrants.

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I'm still not sure what I think about this.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Psycho4Bud

On national security matters, Mr. Obama voted to deny legal immunity to telecom companies that have cooperated with the government in warrantless wiretapping of suspected terrorists.

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I don't support this immunity either. My opinion is that this warrantless wiretapping is illegal.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Psycho4Bud

He wants to grant habeas corpus rights to detainees held at Guantanamo Bay.

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These detainiees need to be brought into some kind of legal system and processed.

Both of these issues, the telecom thing and the habeas corpus issue have conservative constitutional components as well. I think it is the conservative side of me that hates to see my constitutional protections against illegal search and seizure taken away.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Psycho4Bud

He supports a full-scale withdrawal from Iraq.

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I do not support a full-scale withdrawal from Iraq, but we need to either get this thing straighend out after FIVE YEARS, or figure out how we are going to get out. We never should have gone in there in the first place.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Psycho4Bud

And he says, in his first year in office, he would meet with the leaders of Iran, Syria, Venezuela, Cuba and North Korea without preconditions.

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I agree that we can get more done by talking to our enemies than we can by ignoring them and/or bombing them. I don't think we need to make any concessions or agreements with any of these assclowns, but cutting off all dialog has not worked.

So, I wonder if those positions make me a "liberal" or not.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by midlifecrisis

Barack may have a silver spoon, but his ideas are tarnished.

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I'm not sure I get this. Isn't the phrase "born with a silver spoon in his mouth" about being born into privilege? Born to a rich family and given certain advantages? Someone like George Bush is "born with a silver spoon in his mouth," not some mixed-race kid on food stamps being raised by his grandmother.

Obama, known as "Barry" throughout his early years, was born on August 4, 1961 in Honolulu, Hawaii to Barack Obama, Sr. and Ann Dunham.[8][9] His parents separated when he was two years old and later divorced.[10] After her divorce, Dunham married Lolo Soetoro, and the family moved to Soetoro's home country of Indonesia in 1967, where Obama attended local schools in Jakarta from ages 6 to 10.[8] He then returned to Honolulu to live with his maternal grandparents while attending Punahou School from the fifth grade until his graduation in 1979.[11] Following high school, Obama moved to Los Angeles, where he studied at Occidental College for two years.[12] He then transferred to Columbia University in New York City, where he majored in political science with a specialization in international relations.[13]]
Barack Obama - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Poor thing on food stamps going to what school?

Punahou School, formerly known as Oahu College, is a private, co-educational, nonsectarian college preparatory school located in Honolulu in the U.S. State of Hawaii. With about 3,700 students attending the school, in kindergarten through the twelfth grade, it is the largest independent school west of the Mississippi River in the United States.[1] In 2006, Punahou School was ranked as the nation's "greenest" school in America.[2]The student body is diverse, with student selection based on both academic and non-academic considerations.[3] In 2005, its sports program was ranked by Sports Illustrated as the fourth best in the country.[4]

Along with academics and athletics, Punahou also offers visual and performing arts programs. Students have access to a jewelry studio, a pottery studio, a photography darkroom, and glass-blowing facilities. The Punahou marching band goes on a trip once every four years, and most recently they participated in the 2007 Rose Bowl Parade, and the student yearbook, The Oahuan, has won national awards from the Columbia Scholastic Press Association[citation needed] and the American Scholastic Press Association[5], including the first Columbia Gold to be awarded in the State for the 2002 Oahuan[citation needed].

Tuition is $16,675 for the 2008-2009 school year[6][7], not including optional and mandatory fees. Tuition charges do not cover the entire cost of the education of a student, and this "deficit" is met by the school's endowment.[8]

The 115801 Punahou is an asteroid named in the school's honor
Punahou School - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Maybe step daddy had some cash?

Soetoro worked for the Indonesian government and later a U.S. oil company before he and Obama's mother divorced in the late 1970s. Soetoro died of a liver ailment in 1987 at age 51.
LOLO SOETORO :: CHICAGO SUN-TIMES :: Obama Family Tree

Ahhhhh...the asshole probably took off leaving her with a nothing. Could the poor ol' thing even take care of herself?

Stanley Ann Dunham Soetoro (November 29, 1942 â?? November 7, 1995), known as Ann Dunham, was the mother of United States Senator and presidential candidate Barack Obama.[1] Dunham was an anthropologist who later specialized in rural development. While born in Kansas, Dunham spent most of her adult life in Hawaii.

Her parents, Stanley Armour Dunham (born on March 23, 1918, raised in El Dorado, Kansas died February 8, 1992â??buried in the Punchbowl National Cemetery) and Madelyn Dunham (née Madelyn Lee Payne) (who was born in 1922 and raised in Augusta, Kansas and is still living in Honolulu, Hawaii), met in Wichita, Kansas and married on May 5, 1940.[5] People who know the family say that the shape of Obama's face strikingly resembles that of his maternal grandfather.[2]

After the Pearl Harbor attack her father joined the Army and her mother worked at a Boeing plant in Wichita.[2] At the end of World War II she moved with her parents to Seattle, Washington, where her father was a furniture salesman and her mother worked for a bank. The family moved to Mercer Island, Washington, in 1956 so that 13-year old Ann could attend the high school that had just opened.[4]
Ann Dunham - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

WOW! Silver spoon? More like a Golden fork! My ass bleeds buttermilk for the poor thing. IF they were actually on food stamps they were stealing from the government!

Have a good one!:s4:

Ha ha! Well, now I don't know where I got that from. I thought after one of the debates or one of the primaries, one of the CNN talking heads made some comment about him being raised by a single mother on welfare. Maybe it was Clinton, not Obama? Maybe McCain? Maybe the analyst was talking about himself. Whatever, my bad, sorry about that.

I'm an idiot, but the question is, am I a "liberal" idiot or a just a regular idiot? Answer me that, smart guy!

When I first saw this thread, "Obama and the 'L' Word," I thought the "L Word" was going to be "lesbian." It flashed through my head that maybe Obama had called Hillary a "typical lesbian."

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dragonrider

Ha ha! Well, now I don't know where I got that from. I thought after one of the debates or one of the primaries, one of the CNN talking heads made some comment about him being raised by a single mother on welfare. Maybe it was Clinton, not Obama? Maybe McCain? Maybe the analyst was talking about himself. Whatever, my bad, sorry about that.

I'm an idiot, but the question is, am I a "liberal" idiot or a just a regular idiot? Answer me that, smart guy!

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I remember him putting it across about his poor, poor childhood also. That was awhile back.......I also recall getting a hell of a laugh when I found out that step daddy was into the oil industry. Typical politician full of shit blowin' smoke.

Have a good one!:s4:

you know i had it somewhere the exact figures but underthe clinton administration the average yearly federal income tax was approx. $9,000 a year and under the bush admin it is $6,000 a year. it was like a $3-4,000 differance. i may have paid more taxes but i do know this i had a hell of a lot more cash on hand.since bush has taken office he may have lowered taxes but the cost of living has taken way more than that 3 graand he saved me in taxes. hell i give more than that a the gas pump. now im not sayin clinton was a greta guy or the best hing since sliced bread but i was in a much better position than i am now.

we also need more domestic spending but i say lets not just create a tax to make the money but lets cut foreign spending. we shouldnt have to support other countrys. i dont know if we still do this or not but i remember back in the late 80s we gave iran, yes iran, a billion dollars a year for no praticular reason i knew of. we could also get this money from cutting some of the social programs.

the feds could get their hands into health care in one simple move. create free clinics. you know all them doctors that we pay for their schooling thru grants and loans. well instead them payin back 100% of the loan or just takin a free ride they will have serve in a free clinic for 2 or 3 years upon completion of med school, we could call this an internship also. they can even get paid the same as an army doctor who make a 1st lt. or capt. pay. wich would be a decent salary.

nafta. get rid of it NO FREE TRADE. countrys shippin things into the country is more income for us. if we do keep free trade heavily penalize american companys that move over seas for cheap labor and no tarrifs. that way we keep american jobs.

now im a pro choicer but partial birth abortion is murder no 2 ways about it. it is a fully devoloped fetus that would be caplable of living outside of the womb that is pulled halfway out and killed.

gay marriage. marriage is between a man and a woman according to the bible thereby making this a religious argument. seperation of church and state. if my religion says i can marry a same sex partner then you have no right tellin me i cant. if my religion says i cant then im not goin to. but basicaly this is a religious argument. oh nad back in the 60s when many states repealed their laws against homsexuality people said it would lead to polygamy , beastiality, and child rape bein legal. well it hasnt so dont try that old argument.

guns. A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. case closed

illegal immagrants drivers liscense. most states laws the first thing they do is take you driving privlage away. illegal immagrants are crimanals. wether they kill,, rob, drive, or do nothing at all they become crimanals when they enter the country ILLEGALY. i have no problem with guest workers or legal immagrants

immunity to the telecom people. i dont have a problem with them doin this to terrorist but that will not be the end of it soon it will be whoever they wish. and lets not forget that it can be ANYONE who in ANYWAY supports terrorism nad yes my freind you buyin that bag of pot that could be linked back to FARC makes you a supporter of terrorism

habeus corpus. all prisoners should be granted habeus corpus

full scale withdraw from iraq. it would be nice but thats not reality.

talks with iran, syria, cuba, n. korea. we definatly need to talk to our enamys. as the old sayin goes you catch more flies with honey than with vinager. also raul seems to be implaminting change in cuba. it may not be a big deal to us to have microwaves, dvd players, cell phone, stay in motels, and be able to use the land they are not using. but to the cuban people this is huge change. so maybe its time to talk with raul. but we will never know if we dont try.