Obama's church

If nominated, do you believe Obama would have the countries best interests at heart?
I think what a man has been taught to believe in says as much about his attitudes twords others, as does his current beliefs.
I have some real reservations voting for a man to be president, whose "christian" church (Trinity United Church of Christ) appears as racial as the Sunni 'seperatists'.
Their mag Trumpet News Magazine boasts an exclusive interview with his highness Louis Farrakhan, (leader of the nation of islam) on empowerment.
A black christian church having to bring in a radical leader of black islam to speak? Does not sound very christian.
I usually don't give a fuck what church a man goes to, but a black "christian" church that brings in the teachings of radical like Farrakhan, is sketchy at best.
This coupled with the fact that Obama was raised muslim at an early age, gives me great pause. Sounds to me like he never really converted to anything that strayed too far from his islamic roots.
No matter how he is cloaked...Obama is still a risk.

Well, considering how well our current christian president has done, I am not concerned at all. Bush has yet to act with the countries interest in mind. Plus islam and the nation of islam are completely different and have nothing to do with each other.

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Originally Posted by akimbo1013

Well, considering how well our current christian president has done, I am not concerned at all. Bush has yet to act with the countries interest in mind.

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So what's your beef...with Bush, with policy, with christians, or all of the above?
Blanket statements like this offer nothing to the point, but sure does side-step the responsibility of knowing what the fuck you are talking about.

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Originally Posted by akimbo1013

Plus islam and the nation of islam are completely different and have nothing to do with each other.

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Care to point out the differences? How about backing your views with some facts? The similarities seem remarkably similar in deviciveness and spreading hate for any that are not black or muslim. (or male)
Here's some info to get you a vague understanding of the nation of Islam.

Nation of Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Chapter 5 The origin of God as a Spirit and not a man
Chapter 11 Allah, the best knower.
The Nation of Islam Exposed

And you would be ok with an American president that continues to get his spiritual edification (intellectual, moral, or spiritual improvement; enlightenment) from a church that agrees with the principals and teachings of the nation of Islam sect?

I guess if the only other choice you see is Billary, I can see the conundrum. (A paradoxical, insoluble, or difficult problem; a dilemma)

to me here in america it scares me when any president uses their church/belief as part of their policy because they are suposed to be seperated.

i was brought up southern baptist but the older i get the more i see all religion/s are pretty much fanatics. now im not saying every aspect of religion everyone is fanatics cause in every religion most people are very peaceful and understanding, but there is always a group in every religion that is bad

now i believe everyone has their right to religion and its good to find inner peace and if any certain religion helps then thats great but i think theres more to learn about inner peace than any 1 religion can offer


but if obama uses his church or any others that scares me for the nation and my new family. look at whats happening now and how our president is shown the way by god

My beef is with this idiotic notion that obama will not act in the best interest of the country because he has some ties to islam. Do you think he is going to exterminate the white people or give the country to the terrorists. I think he is smart enough to separate his religious beliefs from his politics. We've seen what a conservative christian as president has done, maybe its time for a change. So what if his church brought in a guest speaker. Do you know the content of his speech or are you just assuming its the "kill whitey" speech. Is it any different from a church bringing in gerry fallwell (spelling?) to give a speech. He's just as conservative and controversial. Lastly I am a muslim, and nobody has criticized the nation of islam more than islam. We don't believe in allah taking human form (a huge part of NOI), no ufo's or whatever, white people being less evolved, don't believe jesus was muslim, etc. There are a ton of differences in the two. Just because they decided to use the koran for there teachings doesn't mean muslims approve, agree or like them. There has never been any teaching of hatred for non-muslim people or women in islam. Women are treated with the utmost respect in islam (don't act like theres no wifebeating in the US). Yes there are fanatics, but they are a very small portion and they do not represent islam. I've spent more time in the middle east than probably anybody on these boards, and yes they hate how one sided america has been in the isreal vs. middle east, and yes they HATE bush, but who doesn't, but they have nothing against the american people. If you think its all burning effigies and yelling "death to the infidels" you are completely wrong. There just trying to survive like everyone else. You should stop watching so much fox news and go check it out yourself before you run your mouth about something you have no clue about.

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Originally Posted by Rusty Trichome

So what's your beef...with Bush, with policy, with christians, or all of the above?

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I know the question was not directed at me, but I have a lot of beefs with Bush. Many of those complaints would be off topic, but there are plenty of complaints I have with Bush that are directly related to him pushing his overzealous religious beliefs to the point where it affects ME. Bush's religious beliefs are what drive his positions on abortion. They are what drive him to work against stem cell research. And they drive his positions on the right to die. I don't appreciate it when a politician uses his power to shove his religious beliefs down my throat and to take away my rights to proper medical care. The Christian right has been doing this kind of thing for a long time, and now they are freaked out by the idea that Obama might do the same with some kind of imaginary Muslim fanaticism. He is not a Muslim fanatic. He is not a Muslim at all. And he does not strike me as the type to push his religious beliefs on anyone anyway.

As for the visit to his church by Farrakahn, it is totally irrelevant. It's been a long time since I went to chruch regularly, but my familiy's church used to have guest speakers who did not share the same beliefs as my church all the time. We had Jewish and Muslim speakers as well as speakers from different Christian denominations. It's part of understanding people who think different from you. I doubt Obama had anything to do with bringing in this speaker, or even attended that particular speach, but even if he did, I don't see how it is a detriment to have a president who is open minded and tries to understand the points of view of others in this country. Black Muslims are citizens of this country, and even if you do not believe the way they do, a president should at least understand where they are coming from. You can be sure the Christian Right does not attempt to understand others in this country.

I think this kind of propaganda is basically a smear/fear campaign and has no basis in fact whatsoever.

Basically I find it very offensive that you find obama untrustworthy simply because he has some ties to islam. I think this probably belongs in the conspiracies section.

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Originally Posted by akimbo1013

Basically I find it very offensive that you find obama untrustworthy simply because he has some ties to islam. I think this probably belongs in the conspiracies section.

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You weren't replying to me, right? Because I totally agree with you.

To me the ironic part of this thing is that the people who seem most concerned about Obama pushing his religious beliefs are the very same ones who I feel have pushed their own religious agenda on the rest of us. Obama isn't Muslim, but you get Evangelical Christians raising the specter of Sharia law --- they say he might be Muslim, so we need to be careful or we could end up with a Muslim pushing his beliefs on us. What a load of racist crap from a bunch of people who have felt free to use their political power to push their own religious agenda!

I personally don't care what a politician's religion is or whether they don't have a religion at all, as long as they faithfully esecute their secular duties and are not driven by overzealous religion beliefs. I'm just as worried about overzealous Christains as I am about overzealous Muslims.

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Originally Posted by akimbo1013

Basically I find it very offensive that you find obama untrustworthy simply because he has some ties to islam. I think this probably belongs in the conspiracies section.

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I've thought about this and I believe it should stay here for the following reason: Every aspect of a persons life, professional and personal, is under the magnifying glass when they run for of office. Faith, age, friends, contributors...it's all on the plate.

This is the sort of thing that some may see as an issue, others not; like McCains age for example. When ya run for public office ya better have a VERY clean past or an excuse if there are a few stains. Hell, in ANY other political forum, his drug history would have been discussed by now. LOL

While I'm spreading the word, lets keep the debates to just that without the slashing. There have been a couple of recent threads that have gone past the line and ya all know how I hate to clean up the mess. Thank you for your cooperation!!:D

Have a good one!:jointsmile:

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Originally Posted by Psycho4Bud

I've thought about this and I believe it should stay here for the following reason: Every aspect of a persons life, professional and personal, is under the magnifying glass when they run for of office. Faith, age, friends, contributors...it's all on the plate.

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Yes, this is the right forum.

To me the legitimate issue is not so much what a person's religion is. The issue is to what extent their religion will affect their policy agenda. Will a given candidate use their political power to push a religious agenda?

Many of the bioethics and medical ethics debates about government policy toward abortion, stem cell research, and the right to die have moral dimensions that are open to legitimate debate. Laws often do have a moral dimension, not just a pratctical way to manage society, so bringing in the moral debate is legitimate. But I do not like to see religion brought into these dabates. It's one thing to argue that abortion is morally wrong, but it's another thing to argue that God says abortion is morally wrong and therefor we need laws. I don't think it is right to bring religion into the debate in America.