A link between creationism and evolutionism (VERY LONG)

Well... yesterday, after a break of 2 days, i did some hash chocolate, and then had one of more enlightening highs i ever had... now i understand why its said that eating weed produces an more acid-like high... anyway, i found a nice connection between creationism and evolutionism.

Remember that i'm half-christian, and so my views. If you are against it, please dont waste your time reading.

Today, we humans are researching how to make more potent machines and computers. I believe soon we will create some artificial intelligence computer-based. And maybe, after it, we may even create artificial life, machines with the ability to replicate themselves. It can serve of model for a creationist-evolutinist theory, as it follows:

Im supposing here that God is a being who is creating live and intelligent creatures in this earth, for purposes of His own, much like we humans would call ourselves 'gods' of the artificial intelligence machines. A human being would be for a robot what "angels" are for we humans.

If i were creating life, i would start choosing a suitable planet with the appropriate conditions for it. If my creatures were robots silicon and iron based, i would choose a planet rich of iron and silicon, so my creatures would "made themselves" of the matter of the planet. Or, rather, the matter for my creatures would be everywhere, so it would be easy for them to replicate and regenerate themselves.
A iron-made robot would hardly survive in a planet made of water, as well as we humans would hardly survive in a planet made of sand, and so on.
Accordingly with the Bible, the humans were made of clay, one of the most abundant substances in the surface of this earth. Very, very convenient.

But even the ideal planet would have only a limited amount of different substances. So, there would be need to create a way of tranforming them. Why not to create very small chemical plants, for doing this work? Let there be the first live beings, the microorganisms. Today we believe they were the first to appear, and it makes sense. They were the start of the life. And what they do? Eat, shit and replicate themselves. Doing so they increase enormously the amount of substances present. Today, with the genetic engineering, even we humans can modify microorganisms for tranforming choosen substances. So, its nothing too new. If we follow the artificial life analogy, the microorganisms would be nano-robots, projected for transforming chemicals. And also for the first sketch of the replication system, as the microorganisms have the simplest way of reproduction, they just divide themselves in two.

In fact, even the simplest live organisms are far complex than anything we ever made. But, lets continue. After mastered the skill of creating replicating things, there would be need for a better source of energy. The first microorganisms used the chemical energy of the substances of the earth (or rather, the sea, where they did live). But there was a far better source of energy available, just waiting for being used. The sun.
So, the next step would be create beings able to extract their energy from the sun. Their chance of survival would be greater, as the solar energy is far greater than any earthly source, and also they would be a source of energy for another beings. Let there be the algae and another organism who do the photossynthesis.

Now that we mastered the creation of replicable and self-nutririon, let them evolve themselves. After some billions of years, this primitive beings had time to reproduce and mutate themselves in almost every way possible, and the natural selection choosed the better adapted ones for earthly survival. This perfected unicellular beings would be the "bricks" for the more complex beings, so Let there be the multicellular beings. It would be wise only to put two live beings together after each one were perfected. The multicelular life have the coexistence problems of its own, so it only would be viable after the inter-cellular problem were solved and the unicellular beings were perfected and did work well enough.

With the mastering of the skill of the creation of multicelular beings, if i were creating life, i would try to create almost every possible muiticellular being, for choosing the better ones. And i think it was what God did. During the age called Cambrian explosion, there was a sudden appearing of a great biological diversity, lots of species appeared, each one with its own combination of cells. Many abyssal beings (who live in the deep ocean) are remnant from this age, and the very bizarre character of them shows how God really tried every possible combination of cells and tissues. A part of this organisms were extinct, another ones dont evolved much since then, and another ones evolved to become the ancestors of the modern live beings.

Until then, all the organisms lived into the sea, and were completly dependent of it for survival. But, greater dependence of a thing means smaller chance of survival, so it would be better if the live beings were not so completly dependent of the sea. Let the creatures colonize the land, and leave the sea, so, Let there be the plants and fungi. Interesting enough, the first organisms to live in the dry surface of the earth were also energy sources, the plants. The extract their energy from the sun and store it into themselves. If we were planning to put another creatures on the surface of the earth, it would be very convenient if there were a good source of energy for them. Thats why plants appeared before animals.

Following the plants, the animals also leaved the sea and went to the land. The millons of years that followed allowed them to evolve and became more and more adapted and specialized to survival in the dry land. The amphibians were followed by the reptiles, then by the mammals and birds.
Its interesting to note that in that ages lived the dinosaurs, who were extinguished later, due outside causes (like meteor falling and so). If there were not this mass extinction, maybe they would be living until today, and would be the lords of this earth, while we mammals would be only a tasty food for them. It seems like God did see that the mammals, even if were more adapted for survival in the land, would not dominate the earth by themselves, due the enormous disparity between the number and size of mammals and reptiles (dinossaurs), so he gave the mammals a "little help". By throwing some stones from the sky, He allowed the life conditions of the earth became unfavourable for the reptiles, but favourable for the plants and mammals, so we mammals would have not to compete with the reptiles, and thus have better chances of survival, multiplication and evolution.

Then, the evolution of the mammals continued, the species continued being perfected. Now, the species had not only life, but also some degree of conscience and intelligence. A monkey is smarter than a dog, that is smarter than a bird, that is smarter than a lizard, that is smarter than a fish, or a insect, and so.

Some few millions of years ago, the intelligence of the smartest beings, the primates, were great enough for allowing the existence of higher levels of consciousness. I think in this ages God started to make experiments with several species of hominids, to discover which of them was the more appropriate. They were the another hominids that lived here, and were extinguished later. The better of them survived, and they were the model for the creation of the latest-version, the Human 7.0 (this number is arbitrary), or the Homo Sapiens.

God, knowing now how should be the body of the intelligent being better adapted for earthly survival, created the man. I believe the biblical description of the creation of the man refers to our specie, Homo Sapiens. Why does we whould need to know how was the creation of other species of hominids? So, with the knowledge of all the biology, anatomy, and so, needed for the creation of intelligent beings, that was learned during the evolution of the "lesser" beings, He did make the man, from clay (that is, somewhat metaforically, the matter what our bodies are made really). This creature had a brain intelligent enough for being conscious of itself, for being conscious of being conscious, and also for being conscious of God, so God give it a bit of His attributes.
Today, we are at the brink of creating artificial intelligence, and thus concretize the fact that "we man were made at the resemblance of God": we, cretures, are at the brink of became creators. I believe that the power of creation is what God gave us as resemblance of Him, and its what make us superior to the other live beings.

So, we can see the humans as the newest and latest version of intelligent robots, made of the matter of this earth, after billions of years of "research". And we live in a great junkyard, which shows us the remains of the creatures that were created and tested before us, if we care to dig the earth deep enough to find them. The fossils show the steps of the perfectioning of the skill of creating live beings more and more fit to survival, and also the ones that "models" that were discontinued.

Also, the fossils shows only steps of the evolutionary stairway. The evolutionists believe that the evolution occurred continuously, but we only found fossils with some time between them, and not continuously. Thats why i believe in the process of evolution followed by creation of a new "model", the evolution of this model, then a creation of a new "model", much like we do with computer programming (with is also a creation).

What is the next step? Well... the universe is open, waiting for colonization. But does the atual humanity is fit for it? I dont think so. Our actual society, based upon money, and power, is not developed enough for doing so. Our society will destoy itself before it. Soon wars, hunger, and diseases will finish us. Or even another meteor, why not? Most humans have failed in the test.
A race fit to extra terrestrial survival must have another values than power or greed. Outside the earth, the survival of the specie must be more important than the survival of each individual, and that why the "enlightened" ones talk about love. Thats the value that must be the greater one in a society fit to leave this earth.

The Bible says that the humans perfect (good) enough will become angels, and live in a uncorruptible body, in a eternal place. I think its the way of saying that God will use the "program" of the minds of this "perfected" ones in the creation of the new race, that will live in the New Earth, that will be after this one we live, much like the body and brain of the more perfected hominids were used in the creation of the man.

Even if its a long thread, its just a sketch. Any questions, or points that need of further explanation, feel free to ask or comment.
Also, im not a biologist, so if i have said something wrong from the biological viewpoint, please correct me.
Any constructive criticism is very welcomed. I hope improve this "theory" with the help of you all, so healthy discussions are wanted and welcomed.


But, if you will make some destructive criticism, please read the blue letters below:

Just a quick aside, there's no such thing as "evolutionism", and my spell check confirms it.

But what you've written is very cool, if there is a god, I'd imagine something like you've described. Take out the Xian influences (kinda hard for you, being half Xian and all :p) and it'd probably make even more sense... to me at least :p

I personally think that humans will eventually leave earth, hopefully when we've become able to live in tune with it, rather than ravaging it and needing a new place to live. If this happens, we'll probably never "get it right", hopefully our explorations will be the result of curiosity, and not necessity.

Money and power are not the problems. We're fast approaching a point where we'll have pretty near unlimited resources as manufacturing becomes automated and new energy sources are utilized.

The problem is stupidity combined with stubbornness. People can be so friggin dumb. Proof: George W. Bush is the most powerful person in the world, and he was democratically elected. People are opposed to nuclear energy because of the waste it produces, when burning coal is far more toxic to everything. Creationism (as in, the belief that there exists physical evidence that God created the world) is believed by many.

But I guess what it all boils down to is an unwillingness by most people to see the world as it is, rather than how they want to believe it is. And that, I believe, is the problem of our times.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by khronik

People can be so friggin dumb. Proof: George W. Bush is the most powerful person in the world, and he was democratically elected.

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Indeed! Thats the best proof of the human dumbness...
Abandon All Hope.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by khronik

Creationism (as in, the belief that there exists physical evidence that God created the world) is believed by many.

But I guess what it all boils down to is an unwillingness by most people to see the world as it is, rather than how they want to believe it is. And that, I believe, is the problem of our times.

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Indeed also! If one day someone create a computer program with the ability to think by itself, does this program will have the ability to understand that it was created by a human?

This program will "live" in a computer, it only will know bits, 0's and 1's, so it may conclude that if it was created, it was by something known to it, computer programs, bits. This would be the conclusion of a "humble" program.

More "intelligent" programs, however, will be unsatisfied by this notion, so they will deny the possibility of a program computer creating another one. They may believe that the chaothic flow of bits in the memory of the computer some day reunited itself, by pure chance, in a thinking and coherent set of bits, the thinking computer program.

But none of this programs will ever agree with the possibility of existence of things that are out of the realm of bits, which is the very essence of what they are made. They wont understand the possibility of existence of anything which is not made of bits, which doesnt live into a computer. They will never understand a human, made of flash and blood. And never will agree with the possibility that they, and the world where they live (the computer), and everything they know, is a creation of a thing beyond its comprehension.

Remember Socrates, who said who As most he knows, as most he knows how much he doesnt know...

Coelho, excellent thread! I got linked over from the shit going down 2012 thread...

Quote:

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The problem is stupidity combined with stubbornness. People can be so friggin dumb. Proof: George W. Bush is the most powerful person in the world, and he was democratically elected.

But I guess what it all boils down to is an unwillingness by most people to see the world as it is, rather than how they want to believe it is. And that, I believe, is the problem of our times.

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While I agree that the problem in America is the sad fact that the ignoramus far outnumber the educated, I do not believe Bushy to have been elected democratically due to not only the corrupt and undemocratic nature of the electoral college, but also the fact that Bushy took his opponent to the supreme court in order to make sure Florida could not have a recount (where conveniently, Bushy's little bro is governor) and this was thus the first election that the supreme court ever ruled on, as it is not their jurisdiction anyway.

Whew Coelho, youve got alot of time on your hands LOL

I havent read everything yet but I have always believed there to be a connection between God and evolution. It always seemed obvious to me more than other people.
Great write, Ill def come back and read the rest later

how come i never read this thread before? this is excellent!


kind of like the sims theory: will wright, god of the sims...! haha

and now there's Spore! :P


check out youtube and search my name, i uploaded a spore video hehe :)