Just a though

before i begin i would like to say I dont belive in god nor have i ever. I dont care who or what you belive in as long as you dont try to convert me, and in that case i hate the person, not the religion. Im not tryin to start a fight or anything just posting my thoughts.

If there was a god i dont think he would want people to know about him, nor would he let different people have different opinions of him. He would just be there and do his job, If he was truly a perfect being he would be modest and wouldnt want to 'brag' about how he created the world in 7 days or whatever.

why would he make everything out of atoms and cells. why would there even be such a thing as science if he did exist???

i dont understand how any Rational person could belive in god either, i mean the entire concept of him is so totally flawed. not to mention if he did exist how come i dont feel any bond with him???

I believe the bible is a book of morals, it is ment for people to read and hopefully become better people. I dont think it was ment to be interperted as how it is now, i dont think it was meant for people to worship. If you do believe it do you believe every word?? (including adam and eve, moses parting the red sea and noahs ark- if you honestly belive noahs ark i feel sorry for you) And if you dont belive the whole bible how do YOU choose what and what not to belive??

I think God is far beyond our comprehension. So, all our "images", "views" of Him are distortions, simplifications, due our human limitations. And thats why there is so much controversials about Him.

I think the 7-days creation thing is symbolic. Not literal. Remember the bible was written for be understandible by people. And in that times, when the Genesis was written, it would be incomprehensible for the people to say God created the world in billions of years. So, the symbolism.

About the cells and atoms, i think He did make the universe and everything in it in a way they could 'take care of themselves'. Today many people believe the earth, the life, and everything there is, was generated by itself, and they use it as an argument to prove there is no God, as He is unnecessary.

But, im my opinion, he did created an universe into which the life and everything else would appear by itself. They (life, atoms, etc) are consequences of the physical laws which govern everything. But, how many sets of physical laws would permit the existence of life, for example? Life is a highly fragile thing. One sign of plus turned to minus, one digit different in the physical constants, and the life would not be possible anymore.

Or, an analogy. Its hard and requires intelligence to create a tree. But its far harder, and needs a far deeper knowledge, to create a seed, which contains in itself a tree, and will turn to one, by itself. For me, its the same. He selected carefully the physical laws, and created one universe where life could exist, and let it appear by itself.

As for not feeling any link with Him... i think we humans are in the same situation of a fish which can not percieve the water it lives into...

What to believe in the bible? I still dont know... there is indeed a lot of things that for me made no sense, and i dont know how to handle them. But i hope some day i understand...

Cool. It's great that you have your set of beliefs like that. You seem a little hostile about it, but it's all good. Most people are a little hostile about defending their own beliefs.

I don't know why it is that you say god wouldn't allow different people to have different beliefs concerning him. What else would different people have other than two independent perspectives? If you and I stand in two different locations and look at the same tree, we still see it from two different perspectives. Its like the parabol of the elephant and the three blind men.

But of course, that's making a sort of geometrical argument for the possibility of god. And of course, we can see that god isn't located somewhere as conveniently as a particular tree. God is supposedly outside of space and time, which is why he evades capture by all rational arguments.

I admire your appeal to reason. But it's equally unrational to extend reason beyond its own limits. Some people are content to live in the purely rational world, but there is a much larger world outside of that one, a world that we don't understand, and potentially will never understand.
I choose what to believe by following the lines of reason as far as I can, and then taking faith that such trends continue beyond. A belief that nature manifests on all scales and infinite scales.

I try not to tie god too tightly to the dogma of his alleged followers. God is a metaphor for something far greater than we can conceive. And in that respect, I'm an unflinching atheist who can say with certainty that "god" does not exist...

I agree with you 100% about the bible...

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Originally Posted by Polymirize

Cool. It's great that you have your set of beliefs like that. You seem a little hostile about it, but it's all good. Most people are a little hostile about defending their own beliefs.

I don't know why it is that you say god wouldn't allow different people to have different beliefs concerning him. What else would different people have other than two independent perspectives? If you and I stand in two different locations and look at the same tree, we still see it from two different perspectives. Its like the parabol of the elephant and the three blind men.

But of course, that's making a sort of geometrical argument for the possibility of god. And of course, we can see that god isn't located somewhere as conveniently as a particular tree. God is supposedly outside of space and time, which is why he evades capture by all rational arguments.

I admire your appeal to reason. But it's equally unrational to extend reason beyond its own limits. Some people are content to live in the purely rational world, but there is a much larger world outside of that one, a world that we don't understand, and potentially will never understand.
I choose what to believe by following the lines of reason as far as I can, and then taking faith that such trends continue beyond. A belief that nature manifests on all scales and infinite scales.

I try not to tie god too tightly to the dogma of his alleged followers. God is a metaphor for something far greater than we can conceive. And in that respect, I'm an unflinching atheist who can say with certainty that "god" does not exist...

I agree with you 100% about the bible...

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Interesting...

With certainty..
that is a bold statement..
I don't believe in God either, but I cant say that with certainty.
no one knows..until we die.

meh, i don't believe in god either... i kinda have differing thoughts on the bible... in a way i guess? i don't think the bible was written for people to hav ea basis of basic life morals... i think it was created in a society where there was no effective policing force (just think about it... without it being seen personally, it would be basicly impossibly to rightfully convict anyone... we take the ammount of technology that helps police solve serious crimes for granted actually...) so what better then to construct a book, and tell everyone there is a magical being, that is watching what you do. and he has 10 rules he says are to never be broke... and if you do, he will punish you horribly for what you've done...

how else are you going to control people? granted i'm sure there were some who were scared to break the laws there was, cuz they might get caught... but it's quite evident, even today, a vast majority don't think like that... they think they're going to get away with whatever it is they're doing AND have no regaurd for anyone other then themselves...

tha'ts my theory on the bible... it was constructed as a way to instill fear, even in those who didn't fear the law, and control people.

personally, i don't think god would agree with anything that has been done in his name.... seriously... more peopel have been killed in the name of god then for any other one thing... (yes a stand up comedian says that, but it's very well true) 'god' even says no one else is to judge... that he, and he alone shall be the judge... and if someone wrongs you, to turn the other cheek.... and forgive them....

but how many holy wars have there been, and how many dead? i don't know what other religions say about this, but i personally know from reading the bible, it says plainly to take no revenge... for any reason... that murder is wrong (you can call it war if it makes you feel better, still the same thing :rolleyes:) but his people seem to feel very diffrently.

look up some of my posts in this section, if you really want to see alot of my logical arguments of christianity...

i try to stay to a logical side... anyone can get 'angry' and say 'stupid shit' when it coems to religion, but by showing logic, you can't really be told anything but "well i still beleive" and sometimes the "may god have mercy on your soul"

and i can also still respect people that have their beliefs... i just like to put them on the spot... it's amusing to me most of the time... some of the completely retarded counter arguments i have seen and heard... (just as an example... some 15 year old completely innocent child is killed, by a completely sensless murder... and all they can really say is "it was gods will" or "it was his time")

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Originally Posted by geonagual

Interesting...

With certainty..
that is a bold statement..
I don't believe in God either, but I cant say that with certainty.
no one knows..until we die.

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Sorry, let me clarify. It's really not that bold a statement at all.

Since god must be greater than our possible conceptions of him, any "god" is necessarily false. Much like how the tao that can be named is not the eternal tao. I'm only an unfliching atheist with regards to the use of god as a metaphor, a linguistic varible that only stands for a value external to the system.

if that makes any sense...

Its amusing that people who smoke weed have the most enlightened views on God religion and the afterlife

even though we are branded as a bunch of forgetful morons

F**K THE GOVERNMENT:hippy:

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Originally Posted by Metaphor

before i begin i would like to say I dont belive in god nor have i ever. I dont care who or what you belive in as long as you dont try to convert me, and in that case i hate the person, not the religion. Im not tryin to start a fight or anything just posting my thoughts.

If there was a god i dont think he would want people to know about him, nor would he let different people have different opinions of him. He would just be there and do his job, If he was truly a perfect being he would be modest and wouldnt want to 'brag' about how he created the world in 7 days or whatever.

why would he make everything out of atoms and cells. why would there even be such a thing as science if he did exist???

i dont understand how any Rational person could belive in god either, i mean the entire concept of him is so totally flawed. not to mention if he did exist how come i dont feel any bond with him???

I believe the bible is a book of morals, it is ment for people to read and hopefully become better people. I dont think it was ment to be interperted as how it is now, i dont think it was meant for people to worship. If you do believe it do you believe every word?? (including adam and eve, moses parting the red sea and noahs ark- if you honestly belive noahs ark i feel sorry for you) And if you dont belive the whole bible how do YOU choose what and what not to belive??

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God does not live in time and space, nor does He live in a box. through out
history God has proven Him self to man over and over again, but God is
not a man that he should repent, are that He should have to explain Himself
to you are me, jesus said my sheep hear my voice and follow me, are you
one of his sheep? and if not why?

It is true, the Bible was never meant to be worship, Jesus and God don't want to be worshiped, they want to worship you. The other stuff seems like too much of a material thought sequence like Coelho was sayin. Actually I think the reason for people not believing in god is because they have some idea of it that seems false..well it is completely false, but they believe that falsity to be what God really is. Though the human perception of God is misconstrued, faith and trust in God is an important factor.. and that is difficult.